Why can't an 80 flex like..... (1 Viewer)

[upcruiser]

The comment about the coil sprung Wranglers having more flex stock then an 80 stock, is this true? I've wheeled with TJ's and a Rubi, and I've never thought that they flexed very well. Just look at how much clearance they have in the wheel wells. Seems they lift a tire pretty quickly, in situations where my 80 could keep all 4 on the turf, even when it was stock. Hmm. We may need to post some stock rig flex pictures here.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

The comment about the coil sprung Wranglers having more flex stock then an 80 stock, is this true? I've wheeled with TJ's and a Rubi, and I've never thought that they flexed very well. Just look at how much clearance they have in the wheel wells. Seems they lift a tire pretty quickly, in situations where my 80 could keep all 4 on the turf, even when it was stock. Hmm. We may need to post some stock rig flex pictures here.

Don't know all the stock Jeep measurements (maybe ExpoWest does), though hI can say this. For those wanting to off-road, let's add $1000 worth of suspension to the 80, the 100, and a Jeep. Look and compare:

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

And here's my favorite. I know this spot well. The 80's wheelift through it. If you follow Scott's line they wheel lift about 3 feet:

There's a video here (ain't no 80 or 100 without MAJOR mods gonna do this):

 

[upcruiser]

That YJ though is leaf sprung and a different animal. I think the other difficulty comparing the 80 to a Wrangler, even in the same obstacle is the difference that the wheelbase makes.

Here's my contribution to the flexed 80 shots, the rear still had a tiny bit more to offer in this shot, but the front was maxed.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

That YJ though is leaf sprung and a different animal. I think the other difficulty comparing the 80 to a Wrangler, even in the same obstacle is the difference that the wheelbase makes.

Here's my contribution to the flexed 80 shots, the rear still had a tiny bit more to offer in this shot, but the front was maxed.

Yes, the 80's flex great. But come on, they ain't a Jeep. We're also comparing two totally different vehicles. BUT, check out this SUV: Face it, we can't compare in the flex dept unless we spend THOUSANDS!

 

[Cruiserdrew]

The comment about the coil sprung Wranglers having more flex stock then an 80 stock, is this true? I've wheeled with TJ's and a Rubi, and I've never thought that they flexed very well. Just look at how much clearance they have in the wheel wells. Seems they lift a tire pretty quickly, in situations where my 80 could keep all 4 on the turf, even when it was stock. Hmm. We may need to post some stock rig flex pictures here.

I'm with kristian. I've wheeled with a bunch of Jeeps, and their flexibility and articulation is not nearly as good as an 80. If you look, virtually everyone with a Jeep will disconnect the sway bars, yet in an 80 almost no one does. Even the Rubicons I have seen hardly flex at all, until they get some significant mods and the sway bars get disconnected. Stock for stock, or 3 inch lift to 3 inch lift, the 80 series wins the flex contest. It isn't all about flex however, many other factors come into play. On tight, bouldery trails a short wheel base is just better than a long wheel base. In the tight stuff, my 40 can run away from the 80s I wheel with, not because it flexes better(it doesn't), but because overall it is better suited to the terrain.

I'm no Jeep hater-dollar for dollar a Rubicon is tough to beat if you want a new capable rig that can be outstanding just with a few mods. Now Rovers-I wouldn't own one. They have all the disadvantages of a Jeep (poor reliability, lousy build quality, undersized drive train) coupled with the disadvantages of a Land Cruiser (expensive, expensive mods, little aftermarket support). I'll keep my Cruisers, thanks very much.

 

[upcruiser]

My amount of flex hasn't changed from stock to after the OME. I'm not terribly familiar with what changes go into the TJ lifts, I know they need about 5" to run 33's. Can they get that for $1,000? I'm not going to argue that the pictures that you posted aren't flexing a ton, but the stock Wranglers for sure don't flex like that from my experience. The Cherokees seem to articulate better stock then the Wranglers.

 

[azaussie]

Aussie 80

I read an article about this 80 a couple of years ago and the owner had done very little to the suspension and was getting great flex.

http://www.offroadimages.com.au/Portfolio/4x4ActionWeb/index_15.html
(enlarge the pic of the couple standing next to the rig)

The article had a couple of better pics of this thing flexing. I wonder if any of the Aussie forum members have seen this truck in action and can comment on what suspension mods have really been done.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Maybe you haven't seen any decent Jeeps?

I have to be honest with myself though.

The friggin' Jeeps bury us and much of that is because of better articulation. Don't discount their ease of sway disconect either. Sure these guys disco'd their sway bars. They do it cause it takes only 2 minutes and it turns them into flex-masters. Give that design credit.

What happens on an 80 when you disconnect? Ahhh, that's right. No easy way to disco. So, you order those $150 rear disco's. What is gained in flex? Nothing. OK, so you take them off, both F&R. What's gained? Nothing, except it flexes easier, though no more travel. Plus, if you take them off (1 hour) then you have to put them back on (1 hour).

I started this thread because I've seen these Jeeps (and a zillion more) do such amazing things. While the 80 and 100 are getting locked (because they lift wheels) the Jeeps aren't because the wheels stay down. It makes me sick. So, I asked what it would take to help the 80 out some more. Read the answers for yourselves. I'm not going through that mess or expense.

Ask yourself one question? First though, look again at those Jeep pictures.......OK, now: Don't you wish your 80 flexed that well?
My answer: YES I DO!

 

[wb1948]

ExpeditionsWest, your comments seem a bit condescending and preachy. Most of the people on here are in love with their cruisers(basically cruiser dedicated), and frankly just don't really give a s*** about a quadra coil jeep. I think you would be better off lecturing the "misinformed" on pirate.

As for the rubicon, its apples to oranges. LCs were sold to the general market and not solely designed for wheeling like the Rubicon. The Rubicon's on-road and non-rock crawling performance is so mediocre it has yet to win any 4x4 awards I have seen in magazines(mainly peterson's), which is a testament to it's intended use. The departure angles on a stock 80 are just too small and the undercarriage just too low with the long wheel base(compared to that of a jeep) to hang with a rubicon. Anyways, I can get a nice 80 for atleast half the price for a rubicon.

 

[upcruiser]

Yeah, I wish I had flex like that, though honestly I don't really do stuff that often that requires that much, but hell yeah I'd like it. But is it really them just disconnecting their front sway bars that is giving them that much flex in the front? I have seen alot of nicely modded jeeps that can flex, that wasn't my question though. What I haven't seen are any stock ones that flex very well, particulary YJ and TJ's. So, what I'm getting to here is whether its the aftermarket equipment available, or the basic stock design that is allowing this flex.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Ah, 2 last pics. These were taken in the same spot. I'm in the 80.

We placed our wheels the same height up the rock and took pictures. Notice my rear wheel is an easy foot off the ground.

Notice his rear wheel is on the ground (and the ground was the level so wheelbase wasn't an issue. PLUS, he's more level and stable.

I'd like the 80 to flex like that.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Maybe you haven't seen any decent Jeeps?


Ask yourself one question? First though, look again at those Jeep pictures.......OK, now: Don't you wish your 80 flexed that well?
My answer: YES I DO!

Here is a pic I stole frome another thread of a Jeep Rubicon. If it's beacuse of this articulation that you can't keep up, then other factors may be at work. While it's possible all the decent Jeeps reside in Arizona, I don't think so.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

ExpeditionsWest, your comments seem a bit condescending and preachy. Most of the people on here are in love with their cruisers(basically cruiser dedicated), and frankly just don't really give a s*** about a quadra coil jeep. I think you would be better off lecturing the "misinformed" on pirate.

As for the rubicon, its apples to oranges. LCs were sold to the general market and not solely designed for wheeling like the Rubicon. The Rubicon's on-road and non-rock crawling performance is so mediocre it has yet to win any 4x4 awards I have seen in magazines(mainly peterson's), which is a testament to it's intended use. The departure angles on a stock 80 are just too small and the undercarriage just too low with the long wheel base(compared to that of a jeep) to hang with a rubicon. Anyways, I can get a nice 80 for atleast half the price for a rubicon.

What was the (my) original thread question?

ExpoWest was answering it. I've been fortunate to know Scott. He's taught me so about this sport, and considering the way he's done that I hold him in high regards.

Oh and regarding pricing? You don't need a Jeep RUBICON model to out wheel a Cruiser. You just need a JEEP. Cost? Jeep cost's less. For me, I'm a Cruiser dude but I'd luv that Jeep flex.

 

[Darwood]

That's gotta be a stock Rubicon. I'm with Shotts on this discussion. Maybe it's that I'm from AZ and I've seen what Shotts is talking about but the 80's don't have anything on the coil sprung Jeep vehicles. I wish I could find that pic of my ZJ I had where it looked like the axle was gonna fall off due to the flex. That machine could flex. I think I once accidentially convinced a guy in a 4runner to buy a Grand Cherokee since I just walked up a hill he got stuck on. I think I even pulled him out.

 

[upcruiser]

See, that's what I'm talking about. That is what I see the stock Wranglers doing and quite a number with mild lifts, now if this is due to the sway bar or not, I don't know, but even if it could flex more, there wouldn't seem to be enough clearance in the wheel wells anyway.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Here is a pic I stole frome another thread of a Jeep Rubicon. If it's beacuse of this articulation that you can't keep up, then other factors may be at work. While it's possible all the decent Jeeps reside in Arizona, I don't think so.

Geeze. Look how narrow that V is? A 80 wouldn't even fit in there. If he disco'd those sway bars he'd be set. And by the way, you want to see a LUXO SUV that out flexes an 80? 10.5 front and 13 rear?

 

[Darwood]

And here is some ZJ pic I found (still trying to locate my own pic)

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Geeze. Look how narrow that V is? A 80 wouldn't even fit in there. If he disco'd those sway bars he'd be set. And by the way, you want to see a LUXO SUV that out flexes an 80? 10.5 front and 13 rear?

I'm heading to dinner so I wanted to clear something up before it got out a hand. The Rover pic. I'm messing with some of ya. An 80 with L-shocks has it over the NRRover. BUT......don't laugh at the Rover. I'll bet this is the future in USA SUV's. I'll bet they continue to improve the IFS/IRS designs. The new LR3 is proof of that. Now reliability is another issue.

 

[upcruiser]

What was the (my) original thread question?

ExpoWest was answering it. I've been fortunate to know Scott. He's taught me so about this sport, and considering the way he's done that I hold him in high regards.

Oh and regarding pricing? You don't need a Jeep RUBICON model to out wheel a Cruiser. You just need a JEEP. Cost? Jeep cost's less. For me, I'm a Cruiser dude but I'd luv that Jeep flex.

So, you are saying, stock to stock, any Jeep, particulary a Wrangler could out wheel an 80? Locked? hmmmm.....

This is where I'm getting confused. See, no one answers my friggin question about what changes are in those pictures of the modded Wranglers you keep posting. A reengineered front suspension, ie control arms etc is for sure going to have more flex. So, again, stock to stock, if I simply remove the sway bar on a Wrangler, will it flex like that? With it on, I know for a fact it doesn't. With it off, I don't know, I'm asking.