Who cares about looks! Is there a diesel option??

[83bj60]

What really irks me is that Toyota America (or should I say Kalifornia) in its infinite wisdom has decided NOT to give us the Diesel option in Canada, since the 1989 takeover of Toyota Canada by Toyota of Kalifornia.

And when people tell me Harper is selling us out to the Yanks, I tell them it's been done a long time ago, we just don't realise how much we've been sold out. That's the lot of satellite countries. How far behind we have fallen since the 60s!...

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Better tell that to all the Europeans and Aussies (and others) who love the diesels in their stupid huge Luxo boats.

I know nothing about Europe and Aussie sales. Here in the US the demand is clear based on what they sell in this country.

 

[cruiser_guy]

Here in the US the demand is clear based on what they sell in this country.

Not exactly!!

Take a look at all the folks in Canada that are bringing in RHD Japanese trucks that are 15 years old. There are folks in the US with these trucks too (I know because I've met some of them) though I will NOT disclose who they are or where they live as there are some murky waters there!

There are plenty of folks that are willing to pony up the cash for a truck, sight unseen then when it arrives here they need to go through all the hassles to get the proper approvals just to be allowed to drive it. On top of all that they need to develop their own source of supply for parts since Toyota will NOT bring in parts for ANYTHING that they did not sell in this market.

When folks are willing to go through all that trouble I think they'd be only too happy to be able to buy the truck new after they can touch feel and test drive it and actually have parts support for it as well.

It's not sold here because Toyota DOESN'T WANT to sell it here NOT because there is no demand!!

I'm keeping my 25 year old Canadian market '82 BJ60 diesel powered Land Cruiser until it is no longer possible to buy parts or until I can replace it with a DIESEL powered Land Cruiser of MY choice NOT whatever Toyota thinks I want!! I will NOT be purchasing a new gasoline or hybrid Toyota because that's NOT what I want!!!

Do you work for Toyota??

 

[uzj100]

It is a little strange because Toyota NA could be the LEADERS in diesel here however they choose not too. I believe it has to do with older generations hatred of diesels after the GM mess back in the early eighties.

It just makes me mad because turbo diesel is far superior to gas or gas hybrid.

I am keeping my fingers crossed that Toyota will finally take a chance and lead versus their old model of sit back, see what works, copy someone elses stuff, make it better and then lead.

 

[83bj60]

I know nothing about Europe and Aussie sales. Here in the US the demand is clear based on what they sell in this country.

Sales are based on what marketing experts believe we need. I refer you to the Caveman commercial where the so-called experts blabers on about what society we live in, yada yada, and the caveman responds: "Yeah, I have a response: Uh, What!?"

In case you don't get the point, US consumers get what the "experts" say they want, not what they really need. It's unfortunately very much the same in Canada.

No wonder our economies are sliding further and further down the hill. We are governed by clueless certified idiots.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Sales are based on what marketing experts believe we need.

Do you not think Toyota does market research? What about all the other car makers? They too offer almost nothing in the US.

Same is true for US vehicle design. Back in 2001, how many 2001 Cruiser and LX buyers bought their new 100/LX and immediately lifted it and wheeled it like I did? None! None were so stupid.

We're the minority. Until there's REAL demand the US won't see the rigs.

 

[cruiser_guy]

It is a little strange because Toyota NA could be the LEADERS in diesel here however they choose not too. I believe it has to do with older generations hatred of diesels after the GM mess back in the early eighties.

It just makes me mad because turbo diesel is far superior to gas or gas hybrid.

I am keeping my fingers crossed that Toyota will finally take a chance and lead versus their old model of sit back, see what works, copy someone elses stuff, make it better and then lead.

I'm with you 100%!!


but I'm not holding my breath nor am I going to trade in my diesel for a gasser or hybrid!!

Do you not think Toyota does market research? What about all the other car makers? They too offer almost nothing in the US.

Same is true for US vehicle design. Back in 2001, how many 2001 Cruiser and LX buyers bought their new 100/LX and immediately lifted it and wheeled it like I did? None! None were so stupid.

We're the minority. Until there's REAL demand the US won't see the rigs.

Toyota's market research is based on what some executive THINKS we want. I have yet to hear of ANYONE being asked what they want in a new vehicle. I know what I'd say but no ones asked me!!

We won't see what we want if we don't keep asking for it (and NOT buying the crap we don't want). I'm sure Toyota is scratching their heads over all the JDM vehicles that are coming over, most of which are diesel! Perhaps they'll see the light one day.

 

[83bj60]

Do you not think Toyota does market research? What about all the other car makers? They too offer almost nothing in the US.

you see, THAT's the problem right there: 'marketing research'. You tell me to my face now that 'marketing research' actually BELIEVES that we, the TV viewers, LIKE to be interrupted constantly by commercials?!... Come on!

Then again they must, in their wise 'marketing research' conclusions, because we in fact are indeed continuously harrassed by commercials on TV!!!

Make your own conclusions from this. Those so-called experts come to the coclusions they want to to please their clients. It's a well known fact that if you are expert enough in your field, you can 'prove' anything you want.

Same is true for US vehicle design. Back in 2001, how many 2001 Cruiser and LX buyers bought their new 100/LX and immediately lifted it and wheeled it like I did? None! None were so stupid.

We're the minority. Until there's REAL demand the US won't see the rigs.

I know you are playing the Devil's advocate and I respect that. The trouble is, when these so-called experts realise the demand is here, it will be too late (at least for the local car manufacturers, and that includes Toyota's American plants), they will be so far behind the Germans, the Koreans and the Chinese we will have to ask to be part of their action!

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

No Devil's advocate play here. Toyota has climbed the sales ladder step by step and they now even surpassed GM in worldwide sales. You don't get to #1 by not serving your MAIN market.

 

[cruiser_guy]

No Devil's advocate play here. Toyota has climbed the sales ladder step by step and they now even surpassed GM in worldwide sales. You don't get to #1 by not serving your MAIN market.

UZJ100 has it right. GM has finished the diesel market in the USA and Canada and it is only now slowly returning. The comments I got when I bought my '82 BJ60 in 1989 proved that to me! Little do most folks know that the GM "diesel" of that era was a 350 gasser with a diesel head, NOT a real, ground up diesel.

Toyota hasn't provided a diesel in Canada/USA for quite a while but it provides more diesel than gas in some markets!! The reason is the fear that some in the USA/Canada have about diesels being noisy, stinky, smoky, unreliable and slow. A real modern diesel is none of the above! Audi is winning the LeMans with a diesel!

83bj60 is right that if Toyota wants to be at the forefront then they need to offer diesels in this market as well. Some of us WILL NOT BUY a non-diesel powered vehicle any longer. If they don't start to offer diesels someone else will (my parents have VW diesels but they'd by Toyota IF they could) or as in Canada we'll get them elsewhere until the new car manufacturers succeed in shutting down overseas used imports.

When Canadians and Americans finally realize that diesels are the future I hope Toyota is ready!

 

[83bj60]

No Devil's advocate play here. Toyota has climbed the sales ladder step by step and they now even surpassed GM in worldwide sales. You don't get to #1 by not serving your MAIN market.

I do not dispute your statement of fact of what is and although it may not show at times, I do appreciate your contributions. But you don't stay in the front by merely staying mainstream. They could be selling much more Landcruisers if the diesel option was offered, just listen to how many americans here are complaining about their fuel costs...

Besides, we're not asking Toyota to develop a new engine, they already exist!

So I still believe you are playing Devil's advocate, meaning you try to convince us it's OK to guzzle gas at the rate you are doing, and that people are happy their trucks are using so much gas, or at least, don't mind that they do. That, I have a hard time believing!

By using a Diesel I save on average $1,500 a year in fuel and I'm not counting the savings in maintenance and repairs these diesels usually bring as a side benefit. It may not be much for some affluent owners here on these forums who essentially bought their Landcsruiser as a toy, but not everyone has tons of money to litterally burn and there are quite a few who bough these beasts simply because the transportation conditions they live in are so harsh that it would significantly affect their bottom line if they couldn't get these (originally utilitarian) wonderfully reliable and thrifty trucks to earn their livelihood.

Tonight I went to Montreal for the Jazz festival, a 200km ride both ways (approx 124 miles). I wasn't driving particularly slowly or carefully and was even stuck in traffic for 45 minutes. That smooth engine only sipped 22 litres for the whole trip, measured at the pump a few hours ago (about 6 US gallons). Now you can't possibly tell me that the average joe actually prefers burning an extra 3 gallons for the same trip just to keep using what... This inefficient, wasteful gasoline technology? Where's the beef?

If that is in fact true, we are doomed as a society, no doubt about it!!

 

[uzj100]

The biggest US issue as mentioned before is that the US buyer believes it is ok to drive an inefficient gas engine and guzzle gas. Also, these buyers continue to want the newest latest beast on the street and the vehicles are built like that. So we have 2 huge wasteful cycles going on in the US, guzzling gas and disposable vehicles.

Ok, back to diesels. My next suv will be a turbo diesel. Either a MB GL320 cdi or Audi q7 or (hopefully there are more choices). I would prefer to buy a turbo diesel LC. Earth to Toyota, are you listening, the TD train is getting ready to blow by and you will be standing at the station. They have the engines, they just need the service facilities upgraded and the staff trained to work on diesels. Come on Toyota, you can do it.

 

[Dougal]

Let's be real here. The last thing people want in a Luxo-SUV is a stinkin' and noisy diesel motor. Toyota/Lexus makes these for their upscale buyers, not four-wheelers. Go get a Grand 3.0CRD.

You're wrong there.

Range rover V8 turbo diesel
Audi Q7 V12 turbo diesel
VW Toureg V10 turbo diesel

All these trucks are selling by the boatload. They don't stink, they aren't noisey and they've got boatloads more torque than their petrol versions.
The only thing keeping them out the US is the EPA and their misguided rules.

The uninformed like yourself will never understand, but that's fine. The US automakers (if they're still around in a few years) will continue to make gas guzzlers to suck your wallet and the planet dry.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

keeping them out the US

Yes....outside the US. That's the key.

 

[cruiser_guy]

You're wrong there.

Range rover V8 turbo diesel
Audi Q7 V12 turbo diesel
VW Toureg V10 turbo diesel

All these trucks are selling by the boatload. They don't stink, they aren't noisey and they've got boatloads more torque than their petrol versions.
The only thing keeping them out the US is the EPA and their misguided rules.

The uninformed like yourself will never understand, but that's fine. The US automakers (if they're still around in a few years) will continue to make gas guzzlers to suck your wallet and the planet dry.

It's not just the EPA, they are not really of much concern, it's the big three that don't want it because they can't compete in that field. GM's Duramax is an Izuzu, Dodge's engine is domestic but not made by Dodge and neither is Ford's diesel.

If the EPA was really the ENVIRONMENTAL Protection Agency they'd have gotten rid of the big V8's years ago and we would all be driving diesels and not having this conversation!! We'd likely have far less dependence on mideast oil too!

 

[83bj60]

it's the big three that don't want it because they can't compete in that field.

I totally agree. That's exactly the problem, and the real reason behind Transport Canada's move to the 25 year old rule as well.

To be honest, it's understandable, the automotive industry in North America has always been a racket. In fact, it's really the American Business Model that's under attack here.

If we had a real choice as consumers our economies would soon collapse from being abandonned because we simply can't manufacture anything even remotely as good at a competitive price anymore.

What is worse is because of this excessive protectionism, we now have lost the technology edge as well.

Mark my words... In the next 20 years we may still be driving GMs and Fords, but they'll be owned, designed and manufactured under license by Great Wall, Huyndai and others...

 

[Dougal]

It's not just the EPA, they are not really of much concern, it's the big three that don't want it because they can't compete in that field. GM's Duramax is an Izuzu, Dodge's engine is domestic but not made by Dodge and neither is Ford's diesel.

If the EPA was really the ENVIRONMENTAL Protection Agency they'd have gotten rid of the big V8's years ago and we would all be driving diesels and not having this conversation!! We'd likely have far less dependence on mideast oil too!

While the influence of the US automakers is there, all of them have access to modern diesel engines of suitable size. GM has Isuzu. Ford in europe has an impressive horde and Chrysler (had) access to Mercedes and the rest of the daimler-benz empire.

Did the diesel Cherokee's sit on the dealer yards? All accounts I heard had them all sold ridiculously quick. The US is full of people who prefer diesels and have to drive a 4 ton truck to get it.

Someone in the EPA and CARB has a real beef against diesels and it's costing the US billions.

 

[Dougal]

Mark my words... In the next 20 years we may still be driving GMs and Fords, but they'll be owned, designed and manufactured under license by Great Wall, Huyndai and others...

I think you could lop 15 years off that timeframe.

 

[83bj60]

I think you could lop 15 years off that timeframe.

No Kidding!!! You may well be right, look at this...
http://www.gwm.com.cn/eng/html/news.asp
http://www.gwm.com.cn/eng/html/news/060908chp.htm

 

[cruiser_guy]

Mark my words... In the next 20 years we may still be driving GMs and Fords, but they'll be owned, designed and manufactured under license by Great Wall, Huyndai and others...

Please no!! The likes of Great Wall, ZX Auto and Wuling are not any better than the crap that comes out of Detroit and often worse, as hard as that may be to believe!

Those guys are already copying Toyota and Nissan (look at the models on the Great Wall website at the "Deer" pickup and tell me it's not a Toyota knockoff), and selling their copies in the developing world, why would they even bother to copy GM or Ford? The only folks stupid enough to buy them would be in North America!!