"WhiteLighting" A/C Condenser fitting leak

[2001LC]

WhiteLighting's body lift resulted and A/C pipe rub at lower condenser fitting. A custom fitting was fabricated by a shop, rerouting pipe. Unfortunately it seem to be leaking at custom fitting.

WhiteLighting (I just gave the name) is a white very built-up 99LC w/281K mile Land Cruiser. This rig has it all, which includes a body lift and is supper charged.

While replacing a front drive shaft one day with owner (Ryan), (this offload beast like to blow CV's) I noticed the pipe coming from lower fitting of condenser, was rubbing on frame. It actually rubbed a hold through the pipe. I could see green around area. Which indicates someone had added dye in the A/C system. So likely a leak was being chased at some point.

Subsequently Ryan had a custom fitting constructed. Using a new stock pipping with a fitting that had pipe coming straight out the front, as opposed to up and then out. Looked good, as this gave pipe plenty of clearance away from frame old pipe was rubbing on. So Ryan bought Whitelighting back over to my shop so we could swap in the new custom pipe. Removing old fitting/pipe we found one of the two pipes it attaches too, had a stuck nut. One of these two pipe goes to front and other to rear A/C.

After a great deal of effort the nut was removed. We then found the threads had been destroyed and unusable. So now we needed the pipe that wraps up in front of battery and around LH fender-well to fire wall. Hard pipe to trace to see which of the two we needed to order, in this highly built up rig with all the electrical add-on, but we did. Ryan purchased the new pipe and brought over the Rig again to do the install, this time just leaving with me to do the job.

I started with the new long pipe that wrap from front to fire wall. I had to clear area to gain access so I could R&R the long pipe. So I started pulling parts. The grill, headlight, battery, charcoal canister along with it's bracket. In addition a lot of very heavy gauge aftermarket wire and switches. Went well just time consuming. Once long pipe in, I started the reassembly of all the stuff I had pulled. I also swapped pressure switch into custom pipe and fitting. This is the piping with the sigh glass. As I assemble all the piping and attached to condenser. I applied "Nylog"assembly lube to all O-rings (5 if IIRC). Then I filled my vacuum pump with fresh Black Gold oil and began vacuuming, as I continued reinstalling all the stuff I had removed.

As I worked with vacuum pump pulling a vacuum. I notice the vacuum was only pulling ~24IN. I shut manifold valves at A/C system, so to just pull vacuum on manifold and it's lines and fitting as a test. The vacuum raise a little to ~25IN. Not a good sign. I shut down and watched vacuum in A/C system bleed off. LEAK! Darn. After being in my shop for third time on this A/C issue, I really wanted it to be trouble free and done. NOPE!

I first post in someone else thread but have now started this thread and brought some quotes over from it.

Sorry for high jacking.
@flintknapper I've a problem. This custom built piping that connect at condenser is leaking at O-ring. I've tried three O-rings.
I pressurizes AC system to 60PSI with air. Then sprayed with soapy water.
Bubble..OH NO!

View attachment 2038278

The diameter where O-ring fits on pipe is slightly larger. Which should be in my favor, making tighter fit. Yet it leaks with old, new or off the shelve O-ring.

The length of male part is longer on the custom pieces and some other difference. But measuring of all involved it should work/fit, and does not bottom in female hole (1mm short of bottoming, female hole about 12mm depth, male pipe fitting about 11mm in length).

I've now notice the custom piece is not polished like the one that came out.

Old
View attachment 2038270View attachment 2038273
Notice "old" fitting has 90 degree angles where O-ring resides, and tapered at front. New is tapered where seal resides and flat at front. Would tapered or make a difference to O-ring sealing in groove O-ring resides or nose/front?

Custom piping with different fitting to condenser that changes direction of pipe to clear frame due to body lift. So comes out to front rather than up.

Would polishing make a difference to O-ring seal at PSI need to hold pressure?
New custom It looks unpolished.
View attachment 2038303

View attachment 2038304

Wow...never seen anything that rough. Doubtful it will ever seal (as is). It really should have 90° shoulders (in the O-ring groove) to prevent it from rolling up out of the groove and becoming pinched. Also, looks like the base of the the connection and piping have a slight radius. I'm concerned also with the length of the stub end of the piping.

Some combination of these things is preventing a good seal. I think you can use it...but you'll probably have to smooth the O-ring groove, take a little length off the pipe end and then make a physical gasket (from a thin piece of aluminum can) to go between the two mating surfaces. Dispense with any suggested torque figures and tighten that puppy down good.

Maybe try putting a soft polishing wheel on your bench grinder, with a little compound, and see if you can polish up that groove? Myself, I'd be taking it back wherever it was made, that really looks terrible....

I'm also a little concerned that the length of the piping is having an influence. Not that it is bottoming out, we know it isn't but that it might not be square to the 'boss'....causing it to be slightly tilted when trying to pull the two mating surfaces together.

Cutting some length off there (unneeded anyway) might correct that. But the surfaces have a lot of pitting that even an O-ring will have a hard time sealing. Trouble is...once you modify it in anyway...it's yours.

Alignment with longer pipe I'd not considered. I've slipped in without O-ring. It did not seem an issue, but I'll look again and cut if any doubt. Which I do first as that would require pulling.

Okay. Going try and polish in place with mini bits if possible. If I don't need pull.

Not having 90 degree edge is concerning. I've look for photo of newer ones (I think that what was used to build this one) to see if they have tapper or not. Haven't found a picture!

Gasket, that's a thought. But with the pressures involved and only one bolt and it to one side. Not sure it would seal well enough. Worth a try. We were thinking glue, but that's a sticky road to travel. If fails, I'd have hard time cleaning glue out. Could cause need for condenser replacement.

If today's efforts fail. I've recommended it be take back to fabricator.

The joys of off road built rigs are many!

Besides polishing, also verify the minor diameter (minimum diameter) of the original and the replacement part at the groove with calipers.

Difficult to see, but on your photo it looks like the installed o-ring is barely sticking out above the diameter of the boss. Rule of thumb the groove depth should be ~75-80% of the o-ring cross section. The o-ring should also be slightly expanded, so it is not loose around the part (o-ring ID should be slightly smaller than the diameter of the grooved section).

You can go up to a next size o-ring cross section to get some more compression on the o-ring as well (HNBR material). You should feel it compressing as you install the part.

 

[2001LC]

There was some talk in the original thread I posted which is re-posted above. The talk center around the custom fitting. The size of pipe, that fact it had a rough unpolished appearance an O-ring. @flintknapper for one also was concerned with length of new pipe. That it may be hitting wall inside condenser female fitting, causing and alignment issue. I kept trying different O-rings. One being a new one slightly larger that I found at NAPA, all others were the same size just new or used. Not one made any difference. Each time I pressurized the system up to 60PSI with air, it leaked on top side of fitting. I'd heard a ting pop sound as I pressurized the A/C with air at about 30PSI.
Soap water revealed the leak by forming a bubble.

I even polished the fitting with a mini brass brush and a felt polishing well with glass polish.

Well, after nearly 10 hour this go around (total 12 hour) I called it. It is likely the fitting is just not going to seal. Fitting will need to go back to fabricator or new solution found.


But wait!
After reviewing photos this morning, I notice something. Can you see it? Or is just my eyes or angle of pictures???

Does it look like pipe is welded slightly off center, angling through fitting?

 

[hickuptruck]

Got nothing to contribute but my lines leaking there too. Brought it to 2 ac shops and they both have said they can't fix it and don't have what it needs.

 

[2001LC]

I've a slight concern it may be female fitting of condenser. But in our case we've known issues with male fitting. You as we may consider replacing condenser and lower pipe.

 

[flintknapper]

Yes, piping does not look square to the boss, hence my concern about the length of it. The deeper it goes into the bore of the condenser fitting the more it will create an angle. This will not allow the two parts to mate up flat. There will be a void under one side of the boss. That is what I hoped to remedy by using a gasket and having you shorten the piping. The O-ring alone can not seal the fitting...it works in conjunction with it (and proper fit).

You can probably make it work...but not sure its worth the effort.

 

[2001LC]

I just button up so Ryan could take Whitelighing up to HIH. He'll just not have A/C. Mountains are generally cooler so he'll be fine.

I may try cutting the pipe and placing a gasket on when he comes back. But it still would have angle and gasket would act as spacer, thus keep O-ring from entering female holes as far.

So Like you, I'm not sure effort worth more time on this fitting.

 

[2001LC]

Found this stock picture to give another view of piping coming from this fitting off condenser, sight glass with switch under it and the two nut connect two pipes at the split off..

 

[2001LC]

Working. No more leak. AC blowing cold.

We installed a new condenser pipe, bent it ourselves. Not pretty with a kink in pipe, restricting it down ~20%, but works. If body moves to much on frame, if may rub a hole again. As we've only about ~4mm clearance. W'ell just have to see! Meantime, the bad custom pipe can go back and be re-wielded/set, and kept as spare.

 

[flintknapper]

Working. No more leak. AC blowing cold.

We installed a new condenser pipe, bent it ourselves. Not pretty with a kink in pipe, restricting it down ~20%, but works. If body moves to much on frame, if may rub a hole again. As we've only about ~4mm clearance. W'ell just have to see! Meantime, the bad custom pipe can go back and be re-wielded/set, and kept as spare.

View attachment 2065151

Good Job! Knew you'd come up with a solution. You are not a 'quitter'.

 

[2001LC]

Not my solution. Ryan saw guys at HIH with body lift and they did this way. We just copied.

I'm still concerned, it to close and may rub the frame with aggressive off road use. Which this rig see a lot of. So I've recommended the custom pipe go back to fabricator, and then be keep as a spare just in case. I do like the way it was customized. It's just they welded out of alignment. I've no doubt they do better second time.

For a small leak is was time consuming. First finding why AC was not working which was hole a in this pipe, then customization of a new pipe, then finding bad thread in long pipe, then the leak I spent hours and hours trying to stop, then going back to factory and just bending.