it isn't like they would ever crack a head for no reason, you have to realize people overheat there trucks. How much meat is there wayne, did they make it to break?
Which Toyota Diesel? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Grease Cruiser
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sisukid1975 said:
Hi Fred. Any performance shop should have piping on the shelf (flexible or otherwise) to suit. As you can see, the all point up.
I don't know anyone who has intercooled a 12HT.
Shimming the 12HT is simpler then the 13BT. There are two bolts, and no trimming required. I would suggest you install a boost and pyro, get your baselines, then shim. If shimming does not give enough, then a grainger valve would be the way to go.
hth's
gb
crushers
post ho
;^)
crushers
post ho
i think rising sun had an intercooled HJ61 go through a year or so back...Greg_B said:
crushers
post ho
nah, i don't think they designed the head to crack. to inspect one and to lift one up you would think that it was bullet proof. it was just a design "oops" that we have to live with.Eric Winkworth said:
even with the cracks many have driven their cruiser for ever before the cracks broke though and caused overheating problems...
this is the main difference, in my mind, between the B series and the L series, once a L series cracks you know it right away or so i am told...
cheers
- Thread starter
- #27
Greg_B said:
Wow, you guys have been busy with my thread! I don't get on the computer for awhile, and look what you guys have done. Geeeeeeeeeeezzzzzz.
I don't mind the hijacking of the thread. It's all pertinent info for everyone to share. I am not the one "with money to lose" by trying all of the modifications mentioned above. Although, I do admire you diesel junkies and your passion. I want a diesel that is tried and tested and that will last a long time. I really like the fuel economy and the ability to run a sustainable fuel that we do not have to fight a war for.
Greg,
I have seen the 12HT in the troopie that you are referring to. I have even driven it a couple of times. I like it a lot. It is very quiet (compared to my 4BT in my FJ60) and it drives quite nice with the H55F. I have only driven it on pavement so I do not know how it handles offroad.
Yes, I plan on running bio-diesel and WVO. The 12HT troopie that I drove is running on WVO and it seems to have no power loss.
I was leaning towards the 12HT myself before starting this thread. I will contact you G&S guys to see what the damage might cost me.
Wayne,
Thanks for all the input. I like the rundown that you gave. Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that a 1HZ (with turbo) or 1HDT or the 1PZ are your favorites for my application.
Now, I need to see what this will cost me and do a little more research on these engines. Thanks for all the input so far, any more?
Intercooler on the 12-HT
I have seen few 12-ht engines with intercoolers.
I am going too add a watercooled intercooler to my 62 with 12-ht. I am going to replace the tube on top of the engine (the one who has toyota written on) with the intercooler and some tubes and hoses.
Then add a small radiator in front of the original radiator to cool the water for the intercooler. A water pump keeps the water running between the cooler, radiator and the reservour.
This is what the intercooler looks like (see pic) it used to be in a 80 so I have some modifications to do.
Haffi
I have seen few 12-ht engines with intercoolers.
I am going too add a watercooled intercooler to my 62 with 12-ht. I am going to replace the tube on top of the engine (the one who has toyota written on) with the intercooler and some tubes and hoses.
Then add a small radiator in front of the original radiator to cool the water for the intercooler. A water pump keeps the water running between the cooler, radiator and the reservour.
This is what the intercooler looks like (see pic) it used to be in a 80 so I have some modifications to do.
Haffi
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Straubisum clarification for Peter, as defined in the Edit field
Do it........................and report back!
Actually, if this shop understands the design of the swirl on the 3B "Richardson Comet Mark III" Straubisum coined process, can do these mods and not disturb it's function, you may well be onto something. Remember, in the IDI design, the combustion process starts in the head, in the precup, swirls out, hits the two divits in the top of the piston, and swirls the mixture more, allowing more complete combustion. Remember too that the increased compression ratio of the IDI is to make up for heat loss in the precup (more pressure needed to maintain the heat needed to start the process in the cup). This heat loss is into the head. Combine this with the combustion process starting in the head, and one can see why the head takes more of a thermal beating in the IDI design, VS the DI design. With my limited understanding of the process I would think opening the cup would lower the heat in the precup a little, and the port/polish would allow the exhaust gases to escape easier. While the turbo will cause some pumping loss on the exhaust stroke, getting the gasses out easier may well decrease the thermal load on the head...making life easier on the head. But then the increased heat of compression from the charge air above ambiant pressure may negate this. I dunno. Try and and see! Opening the pre-cup may make cold starting harder, but again, until you try it we will not know Besides, that why you have glowplugs...
With all this in consideration, it becomes apparent that either the 3B has a better thermal management system then the 2LT, or the head is more robust. Both coolant systems need to be maintained...the 2LT is just that much more critical and even then things seem to happen.
hth's
gb
fjbj40 said:
Do it........................and report back!
Actually, if this shop understands the design of the swirl on the 3B "Richardson Comet Mark III" Straubisum coined process, can do these mods and not disturb it's function, you may well be onto something. Remember, in the IDI design, the combustion process starts in the head, in the precup, swirls out, hits the two divits in the top of the piston, and swirls the mixture more, allowing more complete combustion. Remember too that the increased compression ratio of the IDI is to make up for heat loss in the precup (more pressure needed to maintain the heat needed to start the process in the cup). This heat loss is into the head. Combine this with the combustion process starting in the head, and one can see why the head takes more of a thermal beating in the IDI design, VS the DI design. With my limited understanding of the process I would think opening the cup would lower the heat in the precup a little, and the port/polish would allow the exhaust gases to escape easier. While the turbo will cause some pumping loss on the exhaust stroke, getting the gasses out easier may well decrease the thermal load on the head...making life easier on the head. But then the increased heat of compression from the charge air above ambiant pressure may negate this. I dunno. Try and and see! Opening the pre-cup may make cold starting harder, but again, until you try it we will not know
Besides, that why you have glowplugs...With all this in consideration, it becomes apparent that either the 3B has a better thermal management system then the 2LT, or the head is more robust. Both coolant systems need to be maintained...the 2LT is just that much more critical and even then things seem to happen.
hth's
gb
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Some comments...
Marc Ritchie polished the head on his 3B, and polished the pre-cup openings, although I don't believe he opened them much. With his polished 3B-T with over 15lbs boost pushing 38's through 4.11's, he had no power or performance problems chasing my powerstroke at 75mph from Calgary to California and back through the Nevada heat in June. His engine did get fairly hot... over 250F for extended driving periods, but no noticable effect on power or performance that would indicate a cracking head.
In North America, a port and polish often does involve a significant amount of material being removed from the head. However, the Toyota heads are much better engineered than your basic chevy head, and the need to remove material is almost zero, as the air passages are very straight and unrestricted compared to a stock 350 head. Therefore, I would (and have) limit head work to polishing the passages, and just port matching where the intake/exhause manifolds matchup. With this approach, there should be no concern of weakening the head in any way.
You can goad and taunt me all you like Wayne. I am imunne to your jeers. One day in the far and distant future, I will finish that project, if for no other reason than out of spite.
So, the term 'Richardson Comet Mark III' has a dubious origin. If I remember correctly, it actually flew out of my ass a few years ago while typing a message to the DTLC. It's endearing to see that it has actually stuck.
I first heard Rob Mullen make reference to this possibly mis-named combustion process. He was regailing me with a story of attending some institute where they had somehow installed camera's into a diesel engine cylendar to observe the flame propagation. As Rob told me, the instructor made a passing comment about some esoteric footage of some other process, whose name I've re-invented as Richardson Comet Mark III. Rob stayed after class, insisted that he had a truck that used that process, and convinced the instructor to give him a private viewing of the film.
Indeed, I do believe there is a name for the type of flame propgation used in the 3B engine design, but Richardson Comet Mark III may not actually be it, and the use of that term should certainly by in Quotes as Greg has done. If you use it in conversation, I recommend the use of the little rabbit ear air quotes to inflict the dubious origins of that term upon the listener.
Peter Straub
Marc Ritchie polished the head on his 3B, and polished the pre-cup openings, although I don't believe he opened them much. With his polished 3B-T with over 15lbs boost pushing 38's through 4.11's, he had no power or performance problems chasing my powerstroke at 75mph from Calgary to California and back through the Nevada heat in June. His engine did get fairly hot... over 250F for extended driving periods, but no noticable effect on power or performance that would indicate a cracking head.
In North America, a port and polish often does involve a significant amount of material being removed from the head. However, the Toyota heads are much better engineered than your basic chevy head, and the need to remove material is almost zero, as the air passages are very straight and unrestricted compared to a stock 350 head. Therefore, I would (and have) limit head work to polishing the passages, and just port matching where the intake/exhause manifolds matchup. With this approach, there should be no concern of weakening the head in any way.
crushers said:
You can goad and taunt me all you like Wayne. I am imunne to your jeers. One day in the far and distant future, I will finish that project, if for no other reason than out of spite.
Greg_B said:
So, the term 'Richardson Comet Mark III' has a dubious origin. If I remember correctly, it actually flew out of my ass a few years ago while typing a message to the DTLC. It's endearing to see that it has actually stuck.
I first heard Rob Mullen make reference to this possibly mis-named combustion process. He was regailing me with a story of attending some institute where they had somehow installed camera's into a diesel engine cylendar to observe the flame propagation. As Rob told me, the instructor made a passing comment about some esoteric footage of some other process, whose name I've re-invented as Richardson Comet Mark III. Rob stayed after class, insisted that he had a truck that used that process, and convinced the instructor to give him a private viewing of the film.
Indeed, I do believe there is a name for the type of flame propgation used in the 3B engine design, but Richardson Comet Mark III may not actually be it, and the use of that term should certainly by in Quotes as Greg has done. If you use it in conversation, I recommend the use of the little rabbit ear air quotes to inflict the dubious origins of that term upon the listener.
Peter Straub
Behemoth60 said:
Cool. I could have sworn I recall Mullen using this term in conversation, however time has passed...
Behemoth60 said:
Wasn't that at MIT, and the instructor made some comment about the throttle body butterfly valve not being possible?
Behemoth60 said:
Put your research cap on then and clear up this flagrant misuse, dare may I say abuse of peoples gray matter storage space please...
EDIT...Ahhh, here is the post where the grey matter abuse started then. Took me a day, as I was looking in the wrong area.
gb
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crushers
post ho
actually a cracked head does not afect the performance or power, it affects the cooling system causing over heating and coolant loss. the performance and power stays the same...Behemoth60 said:
i look forward to the day when you do get that 1HZ back together. i am picking up a rebuild kit from Ens when i am up there next week to rebuild the one in the shop for no other reason then so i can say what concerns come up during the process.
BTW, they make 3 different head gaskets for the 1HZ. if you want more or less compression you can just change out the gasket...
cheers
crushers said:
Good on the rebuild...Hey, how did the bearings look on the hopped 1HZ? We've just had another 1HD-T and 1HZ-T done, and they were "middle of the road". All plasti-gauged fine with ACL's.
They make 5 gaskets at the factory, and depending on the measurements at deck height they use the appropriate gasket. They supply 3 of these gaskets outside the factory. Right above the block number you will see the head gasket, and can count the number of cutouts (1/2 moon shaped) which will give you the "Mark" gasket used at factory. I would not want to use too thin a gasket, unless you have indicater gauged it. Would be an expensive fix.
hth's
gb
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crushers
post ho
agreed, too thin and OOOPS but you could check for interference by turning the engine by hand...
i am thinking of going completely stock for reliability.
i have done 3 (or is it 4?) HDTs and they varied in milage from 155,000 to 58,000 and the hopped up 1HZ. all the bearings looked to have the same amount of wear, nil. squat. negligable...
they all spec'd perfect with the ACL bearings. i have 2 more HDTs showing up next month and we will see with those ones if there is any change.
cheers
i am thinking of going completely stock for reliability.
i have done 3 (or is it 4?) HDTs and they varied in milage from 155,000 to 58,000 and the hopped up 1HZ. all the bearings looked to have the same amount of wear, nil. squat. negligable...
they all spec'd perfect with the ACL bearings. i have 2 more HDTs showing up next month and we will see with those ones if there is any change.
cheers
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All four engines I have replaced bearings on 2 1HZs, 2 1HD-Ts had at least one bearing showing delamination according the the photos I have seen.
One particular 1HD-T had several very bad looking bearings.
My guess was lack of service and poor oil.
Rob
One particular 1HD-T had several very bad looking bearings.
My guess was lack of service and poor oil.
Rob
Radd Cruisers said:
It certainly is not just an Ozzy thing. I am glad that has been your experience thusfar Wayne. Your experience goes against what I have been hearing from a number of sources that are changing out BEB's on 1HD-Ts. Not all showed flaking, but enough of a sample to warrent checking and changing for the limited cost.
Do I recall correct that you said just a while ago on this board that the 1st one you did showed enough strange wear in your opinion that you decided to do them all when they came through your shop, however the 1st one showed no flaking?
hth's
gb
crushers
post ho
yep, being the first set to be changed out that i saw it seemed to have more than the usual wear but i had nothing to compare it to. now 3 or 4 sets later and 1 det of 1HZ bearings and they all seem to be the same. that being the case there has been NO flaking at all and the wear according to Mike is probably normal.
this being said i will still change out all the BEB on all HDJ81s that come in. maybe one day i will be able to see what you boys are experiencing...
although i hope not to,
cheers
this being said i will still change out all the BEB on all HDJ81s that come in. maybe one day i will be able to see what you boys are experiencing...
although i hope not to,
cheers
crushers said:
Ya, we have not experienced, nor have I heard experience of every engine showing flaking. Just enough of a percentage to warrent checking and replacing. By middle of the road I mean no obvious flaking, but enough wear or a strange mark or two that might indicate the beginnings.
hth's
gb
