Which end of the hammer do I hold? Noob knuckle rebuild

[deaddrift]

I'm about a zero banana mechanic and after owning my truck for a few years it was (way past) time for a major front end overhaul, so I decided to rebuild the knuckles myself.

Here is a link that details all of the online info I referred to, and all of the materials I used, for the course of this job. I should probably say here that if I can do this job, anybody can do it. Prior to this the only work I'd done on vehicles was changing the oil, some riveting, and replaced the clutch master and slave cylinder. Oh and I replaced the seat upholstery. I hope this helps any future newbies that find this thread: https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-...-hold-noob-knuckle-rebuild-3.html#post7748121

I was pretty proud when I dealt with the rusted bolts and the cone washers but now I have some questions. I know nothing about this stuff and I apologize in advance if I misuse terms.

First of all, what part # is this piece shown below? It fell out as I removed the outer bearing, and the drivers side one is heavily grooved on one side, the PS one much less so. Can I just reverse 'em and run 'em or do I need a new piece? Is this a bushing or what? a washer? The DS one is the top 2 pics, PS on the bottom.

 

[deaddrift]

BTW the bearing itself from the DS (drivers side) looks like the first pic below... yikes . It was clicking pretty loud for several months (I know, I should have gotten to it sooner) and when the DS front wheel started groaning and grinding I finally parked it until school was out and I could get to it... I teach middle school science.

On the passenger side the hub had oil and dirt on the outside (even worse on the DS) t5making me think the axle seal was shot, but when I pulled the rotor off it looked like pic #2 below. Why did my lock out hub look so oily? Would oil get past the grease without diluting it? It's still red, as you can see. Is an oily dirt collecting hub just par for the course?


Also, the PS spindle has some discoloration. It feels smooth to the touch though. Do I need to worry about that? See pic #3.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

If its the outer bearing its the thrust washer.. Inner would be oil seal.... Spindle looks ok to me. I'd run spindle again.. Bearing is of course SHOT!...

Call Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters for any part you need... Good price and best service I've dealt with..

Brother you need a full knuckle kit.. don't try any and get one part here and there.. do it right and order a kit for Kurt..

OH AND FOLLOW TORQUE SPECS WHEN YOU PUT IT BACK TOGETHER..

J

 

[deaddrift]

Finally, a few more new guy questions. First, what &%%#@%^ tie rod end puller do I use? Everything I've ever found locally has had a gap that is too wide for the TRE, except one where I bent the actual pusher screw itself while trying to break a ball joint free last time I tangled with this. Do I just need to suck it up and use a pickle fork?

Second (and this one is IMPORTANT) how do I tell if my axle/cv joints are good? (Are these what are called birfield joints?) I had clicking for a long time but always assumed it was the bearings. The DS rotor and hub assembly (terms?) had several mm of in and out as well as up/down/side-to-side play in it when I got the lockout assembly off. I don't remember feeling that on the PS wheel though.

I am going to take my son to dinner as promised and then get back into it.

I want to take this time to say THANK YOU to mud and the members here. There is NO WAY I would ever have dared to get my hands dirty with this kind of stuff if it weren't for this site. In particular lshobie's excellent youtube videos have proved very, very useful. Here are the links if you have not seen them:

Toyota front knuckle, hub, and brake service overhaul Video #1 Removal. - YouTube

Toyota Land Cruiser front Knuckle rebuild tutorial #2 installation - YouTube

I will be buying a star tonight because this site is rad. Cheers!

 

[deaddrift]

Thanks, reevesci, I already have the rebuild kit from Kurt, he was as nice as everyone says. However that part is not included; I think you're supposed to fix the bearings before things get that far out of hand. Anyone have a part # for the thrust washer? Is that what I need? It has a curved tab a few mm wide on the inner edge.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

Yes, yes you are... Call him back for the thrust washer and any other hard parts you may need.

Tie rod end puller I have and like is..:

Amazon.com: OTC 7315A Universal Tie Rod End Remover: Automotive

J

 

[GoneToOz]

x2 on the kit from Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters to do it all and do it right. Just got finished doing the same job and decided while I was at it to replace the tie rod ends and suspension - also ordered from Kurt. It all arrived today so I know what I'll be doing in my spare time.

I'd definitely run the spindle again and probably the thrust washer too but would install it with the grooved surface outward. Good posts on this site as well as a couple YouTube videos to walk you through it.

You need more towels.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

Looks like your Birf and oil seals were good with the existence of red grease but, change them anyway since you have them with the kit. When I did mine on Marley... nasty old greyish black soup poured out.

Yes, get yourself a roll or two of paper towels.. But, personally IMO I wouldn't re-run those thrust washers...

I'm thinking the new WASHER kit = thrust, star, and nut is about 15.00 IIRC..

J

 

[Wyoming]

Deaddrift,
While you are there, do a brake job. You will be amazed at how easy it is and that you ever paid such high prices for a brake job in the past. The boys like Cruiser Outfitters, I've never dealt with them. For the brakes, I used JT Outfitters out of South Carolina. They also have great prices and service, and, they are fun to talk to because of their severe southern accents.

Take your rotors to NAPA and have them turned and pick up a new set of brake pads. You can get some reasonably priced, rebuilt calipers from JT Outfitters. There is nothing like the feeling of having the knuckles and the brakes 100%...and saying you did it your self.

 

[deaddrift]

Thanks for the suggestion about the brakes. I had planned on running my old calipers though I do have new pads.

The old calipers are rusty and appear to be missing the retaining spring and associated parts I saw in lshobie's video. But replacing them from JT Outfitters looks like an extra $150 plus shipping.

The truck stops pretty well though its easy to lock up the back wheels when I jam on the pedal. Are new (rebuilt) calipers going to make that big of a difference? And what about this 4runner brake upgrade I hear about? Anyone have a line on those calipers? [EDIT: now I see them on the JTO site... they are the same price as the LC ones, or as close as makes no difference.] Any feedback from owners who have installed this mod?

I ordered new thrust washers from the dealer this morning and will have them this afternoon.

Thanks all for the advice!

 

[deaddrift]

Are my axles OK?

I don't remember seeing this discoloration on the axles of others who have written this. Are my axles OK? I have heat discoloration on both sides

Also, why are my wheel bearings so blown up while my axle grease is still thick and red? It looked very much like I was getting OIL, not grease, out of the hub locking mechanism and I thought that plus the clicking I was hearing meant the axle seals were bad, but no, apparently. What do I need to do to keep oil or grease off the outer surfaces of the hub and in the bearings? What am I missing, here?

 

[60Works]

If the rotor/hub were loose before disassembly then your wheel bearings were likely loose. That would ruin the bearings in pretty short order. A wobbly rotor would also inpede braking and possibly damage the calipers. If your rotor's aren't worn much, or grooved, or pulsing, I would leave them. Kind of pricely and definitely a PITA because the lug bolts all have to be pressed out.

I've never heard of someone being able to slide the rear tires but not the fronts. Could be I'm wrong (its happened often enough) but I'd wonder if maybe you had one or more caliper pistons not squeezing. Easy enough to check that they all move while you have them off.

I hope that castle nut on your tie rod is inverted because you already removed it once and it is now just holding the rod out of the way. There are several good threads about tie rods posted recently. You might want to read them.

I highly recommend getting the factory service manual. You will save a lot more money in labor than the manual costs.

 

[deaddrift]

Thank you Juggernaut.

I reversed the castle nut myself. I have since gotten the knuckles all the way apart and removed the steering arms with a pickle fork, tearing the heck out of my tre boots and revealing the internal rust. Should I be getting new 555 tre's or is there a better alternative out there?

I have not seen bearing races being replaced in the write ups I've read. One of my races was shot, looking at the bearing that was in it it's no wonder (pic #1 post #2). That was a Chinese bearing and I had a shop press in the new race, which is a Koyo. However that still leaves me with three old bearing races in the hubs.

My FSM shows setting preload on the trunion bearings (right term?) but I have not seen others do this in their writeups either, unless I'm missing something.

Three studs came out of my knuckles as I removed the trunion bearing posts (term?)

[EDIT]I bought some '95 4runner calipers and pads and will be installing them instead of rebuilt LC calipers. I had the rotors ground; they are marginal thickness but waaaaay better than they were. However since they've already been machined I can't press in new races, and since they're so thin if I need to it will mean buying new rotors and attaching them to my old hubs, which I am trying to avoid because the $$$ is piling up fast.

Questions:

1. Anyone have feedback on TRE's?
2. Are my old chinese bearing races OK with my new Koyo bearings? The sizes match up, best I can tell.
3. Do I need to worry about preload or will replacing the shims as I found them take care of this? How do I set preload? [EDIT: figured this out]
4. Can I just put a second nut on the knockle studs and drive 'em back in there? Judge how deep to drive 'em based on the studs that didn't come out?
5. How do I remove the axle seals without the SST?

I am in the middle of this again after a rainy weekend with the family and would appreciate any help offered. Thanks for reading.

 

[deaddrift]

Dangit! I found a shim in the bucket of mineral spirits and I don't know where it came from. I guess I do have to figure out the preload. It looks like it's not too hard in the FSM but what about the SST?

Do I need the Toyota SST for this or can I ask for something at NAPA?

 

[2mbb]

if you are talking about the SST for centering the knuckle housing on the axle then you will need the toyota SST or an equivalent tool. I don't think that Napa will have something like this, but there is an old toyota trails article how to make one at home. You might find a reproduction of the article if you do a search. Or someone on MUD that has one might lend it to you.

 

[deaddrift]

Talk to me about me about my axles. Do I need new birfs? Are Longfields the way to go?

[EDIT: PS, thanks 2mbb, I put up a request thread.]

 

[deaddrift]

OK, I think I DO need a new axle; that wear around the axle housing seal site will let oil into my grease, right?

Advice and/or commiseration not only welcomed but actively solicited.

 

[snowboardonsnow]

oh wow, not only that but your bearing ball looks severely pitted. How long did this thing sit?

 

[snowboardonsnow]

As far as your axle letting oil it, it sure looks like it was holding before right? I would say throw your new inner seals in and call it good.
That discoloration is normal from what I have seen.

And you need to use the races that came with the bearings two reasons why... are we talking kayo or timkens? trunnion bearings or wheel? at any rate bearing companies use different pitches as well bearing races can go bad too specially trunnion bearings where they don't fully rotate that can 'flat spot' so to speak.

I may have missed it but did you oder hurts kit with wheel bearings or not?

 

[deaddrift]

Thanks, SOS, I appreciate the perspective. I saw your response on the other thread as well and your advice about the axle seals and knuckle shims tallies exactly with what my 40/60/80-series-LC-specialist-mechanics tell me.

I do have the rebuild kit from Kurt, including the Marlin seals. I purchased new thrust washers from the dealer and have also gotten two of the rubber O rings for the hub dial faces... at $3.97 a pop

My mechanics (Josh and Larry at Willamette Boulevard Service Center here in Portland) tell me I can press my old bearing races out and the new ones in with a little elbow grease (read: long brass drift and BFH), so that's the plan.

Two of the birf bearings looked that way. I got a new-to-me used axle shaft and birf from Josh, plus the internal snap rings, for $45. The axles are apart and will be reassembled and greased tonight.

Josh told me that usually the knuckle shims are one thick, one thin, on top of the knuckle; and one thick only on the bottom. This tallies with the side I managed to do right, so I am going to reinstall the knuckles with this set up unless a voice of experience warns me away from it. Thanks for your x2 on this procedure on the other thread, snowboard.

Couple remaining questions: where the hell do I get a replacement for the tiny detente ball and spring from the lockout hub face that I lost? :whoops: And second, anyone have a line on some good TRE boots so I don't have to replace the whole ball joint right away?

Thanks all for the advice. This site rocks.