Where does LC end and Rubicon begin? (1 Viewer)

[CharlieS]

My personal opinion is that that $45k (or whatever a "Rubi" plus tax title and tags costs), would be better spent in gas, seat time on trails, recovery gear, depreciation, and mild mods on the land cruiser you already own.

On the other hand, if you're just looking for people to endorse a decision you've already made, then yes, it is a great idea to buy a Jeep.

 

[Madtiger]

Read IH8Mud, and you'd think Land Cruisers were blowing their radiators, bricking their head units, and busting their CDLs ever time they drive to a grocery store. Problems can happen with any vehicle, but we're incredibly spoiled these days with quality vehicles.

2020 quality midsize pickup Awards | J.D. Power

See the winners of 2020 quality. Ratings are based on verified vehicle owners. J.D. Power has the world's most trusted consumer ratings.

www.jdpower.com

The Bronco is essentially a Ranger underneath, with better suspension.

The new F150 is having significant rust issues on frame and axles only a few months post ownership. And we thought that we have rust issues here on this forum!

 

[grinchy]

I don't want A/T tires on the LC. Want to be able to take quite 2k mile trips. I've had A/T's on other vehicles and do not like the noise. Some don't mind, but I do.

What brand/model do you have experience with? Perhaps there are some lower NVH options to explore that would still provide much of the AT advantages without the drawbacks you have experienced.

 

[WesSiler]

The new F150 is having significant rust issues on frame and axles only a few months post ownership. And we thought that we have rust issues here on this forum!

Deliveries are showing up with some surface rust on the axles. Non issue.

Hate to sound like a Ford fanboy here, I'm not a proponent of any brand over another. I am, however, a proponent of objectively evaluating vehicles for what they offer, not what Internet groupthink says about an incredibly amorphous term like "reliability."

I was chatting with a reader about Tacomas a couple of weeks ago. He was insistent that he'd never had a problem while owning three generations of them. Turns out he was one of the guys whose frame rusted and snapped in half...brand loyalty is stupid.

There's not a lot of good journalism out there around trucks and 4x4s. Use what quality sources are available to learn real information.

 

[Madtiger]

Deliveries are showing up with some surface rust on the axles. Non issue.

Hate to sound like a Ford fanboy here, I'm not a proponent of any brand over another. I am, however, a proponent of objectively evaluating vehicles for what they offer, not what Internet groupthink says about an incredibly amorphous term like "reliability."

I was chatting with a reader about Tacomas a couple of weeks ago. He was insistent that he'd never had a problem while owning three generations of them. Turns out he was one of the guys whose frame rusted and snapped in half...brand loyalty is stupid.

There's not a lot of good journalism out there around trucks and 4x4s. Use what quality sources are available to learn real information.

What is real information? My brother’s issues with his Raptor are kinda real. His truck being stuck in service bay for days because parts are backordered due to overwhelming demand from other trouble trucks is kinda real. JD Powers DEPENDABILITY survey kinda real too because it backs up what most forum readers have talked about.

IF we saw these rusting parts on a used LC, then most of us would say to pass on it, right? And this is on a NEW truck….

 

[gaijin]

OP has already answered his own question.

Why are we continuing off topic? Maybe a different Ford vs. Toyota thread is in order?

HTH

 

[1world1love]

I'd change that sentence to say between Ford and the 200 series. Volume 'yotas aren't made like our vehicles.

Maybe, but again, that doesn't mesh with my own experiences, which is all I can speak to. I've owned 7 Fords of various makes and models. None of them made it to 100k without significant repairs needed, and many of them required major repairs with less than 50k. Granted, a few of those were back in the 80s/90s when Ford quality was somehow worse than today.

We've owned 7 Toyota's (not including my current LX570), and 2 Subaru's. Out of those 8 vehicles, 3 Camrys, 1 Avalon, and 1 Forrester have over 300k miles and are still daily drivers for the teens in our extended family - no repairs for any of them beyond scheduled services. All of the others are DDs and have no major repairs (1 4R, 1 Highlander, 1 Prius, and 1 Crosstrek).

Of course we all have anecdotal examples so it doesn't really matter all that much. Again, if you've had good experiences with Fords then great. If the OP has had good enough experiences with Jeeps that he would buy another one then great!

Personally, if I were looking at a second, "fun" vehicle, I would get a loaded Crosstrek or Outback.

 

[1world1love]

OP has already answered his own question.

Why are we continuing off topic? Maybe a different Ford vs. Toyota thread is in order?

HTH

Agreed. Sorry for the digression.

 

[onemoreokie]

We live just outside Breckenridge in Frisco. We moved here about a year ago and our two vehicles are a TRD Pro 4runner and a 2020 LC.
My advice would be to wait till you get here and explore for a season or two with the rig you own. I thought I'd have more of an appetite
for harder core off-roading but that really hasn't developed. I honestly don't feel like I'm pushing the boundaries of the vehicles I own. I see the appeal of the Jeep
but I have a suspicion the novelty would wear off very quickly. Oh and one other thing, winter up here beats up your vehicle very quickly.
They put a ton of sand and gravel on the roads and it damages a nice vehicle QUICKLY! If you get a Jeep get one that has the new worn off it.

 

[WesSiler]

What is real information? My brother’s issues with his Raptor are kinda real. His truck being stuck in service bay for days because parts are backordered due to overwhelming demand from other trouble trucks is kinda real. JD Powers DEPENDABILITY survey kinda real too because it backs up what most forum readers have talked about.

IF we saw these rusting parts on a used LC, then most of us would say to pass on it, right? And this is on a NEW truck….

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Of course your brother's experience is real. It's just not necessarily borne out across other vehicles within a brand, model, or generation.

It'd be interesting to learn what caused that rust on that one batch of F-150s. Wouldn't be surprised if a supplier shipped them incorrectly, or left them sitting in yard or something. Shame they got past inspection and to customers, but we're talking about the highest volume vehicle sold in America here, the company won't allow their most valuable product to continue to have that issue.

Brand reputations are wacky like this. Someone owned a Ford in the '80s and didn't like it...how does that bear out now? A dozen F-150s get delivered with a problem...how does that provide information on the general quality of that product?

I realize this is off topic, so I'll knock it off. Don't dismiss the new Bronco is all I'm saying, it's really shaping up to be an exciting vehicle. Ticks essentially every box.

 

[ikarus]

Guys. Comparing a bone stock LC to a bone stock 2dr Rubi. with an inexperienced operator. Inexperienced meaning no experience in truly technical trails.

We're likely moving to Colorado. Have a LC that I'm going to keep. We will have a second vehicle as well. We're trying to determine whether to get a Rubi as the second. The only reasons we'd get the Rubi is the top down option and (possibly) it's superior suitability for the trails. While I don't plan on intentionally pushing my vehicle to the limit, I do plan on regularly exploring the trails. We'll be living in Breck so will be close to some pretty scenic trails that we plan on visiting.

We've never explored the SW, so would hopefully get to utilize the LC around Moab, AZ, etc.

I would get both man! Can't go wrong with a cruiser and a Jeep.

In my experience here in Utah (no offense if this is stuff you already know) we have two types of offroad trail: established trails and remote BLM/Forest Service roads.

For the established trails like Moab Rim, Metal Masher, Cane Creek, I would go with a Jeep. The solid axle and lockers are killer, they're so much easier to modify for 37"+ tires and the aftermarket is huge. Plus you can drop the top and cruise slowly through the technical sections. However, these trails almost always are just loops and you end up in the same place you started. Personally, it's not my style. The trails get crowded and I don't really enjoy clanking and creaking over boulders for hours when you could have hiked further on foot.

Now for the rest of the state, I would say that a stock land cruiser can probably handle 85% of the trails out there if you add some good tires. I've seen way too many Subuarus in the backcountry than I'd like to admit. The main problem I run into: when you get far enough out on unmaintained mountain trails or desert roads, a Rubicon wouldn't get you much further than a Land Cruiser simply because it's not safe. If the road is washed out, rutted, or covered in a landslide, sure you might be able to crawl a little further in a rubicon but personally I play it safe, especially when alone.

Of course, for the next 10% of trails, you do need lockers, winch, bigger tires, bumpers etc. and for the final 5%, you might as well just get a buggy or a RZR because it's going to be a lot more fun than dragging 7K lbs around a tight rocky trail. I've been there done that with my 100 - overbuilt it and found out I really just don't care to rock crawl and prefer high speed desert roads.

For me, a modified Land Cruiser or Tacoma is perfect for southwest trails. You get the comfort and quiet while you drive the 100-200 miles to a remote location, then reliability and enough capability on the trails. I've driven Jeeps quite a bit - I almost bought a Gladiator instead of my Tacoma - but the noise levels and handling are noticeably worse on long freeway drives in a Jeep.

Hope that helps.

 

[HighRanch]

Being from Colorado, you better keep the top handy at all times. Noon storms out of know where happen in minutes. Many times being hail. I have taken my previous 200’s all over the front range, west side of the Rockies and south into Silverton, Ouray area. The rubicon will do it all but I had never thought “boy, wish I had a Jeep” for any particular trail. A bone stock LC will do most all of it unless you’re thinking to rock crawl. What it will need most of all, A/T tires immediately. Don’t get me wrong, Jeeps are cool and I love having the top off in the summer. What I don’t like, is getting attacked by mosquitoes and yellow jackets. Not saying they won’t fly into the 200 occasionally but less likely.
I love Breck and you must have some serious coin to move there. If it were me, Evergreen is the better option. You can still see nice mtn tops. In Breck, just trees and top of ski slope. Either way, lucky you and you’ll love it.

If you are considering Evergreen, you should also check out Genesee Park. Both Genesee and Evergreen are quick access to I70 and airport.

 

[RyanR]

Nothing against Jeeps, I have owned a few and loved them but I would maybe experience a season in Breck before buying if removing the top is a big part of the appeal. You can get snowed on any day of the year up there (I have lived in the rockies in CO most of my life) and you may (or may not) find that having the hardtop on and the ability to warm up the cabin when its 25 degrees and whiteout in July is more valuable than the open air freedom (Don't worry it will be 70 and clear again in 15 minutes). I would also consider AT tires regardless.... there is rock crumbling on the roads year round, particularly in summit county where there has been a lot of blasting to create roadways and smacking some sharp softball sized rocks at 75 MPH with a tough AT is generally no big deal where it is much more likely a blow out in a Passenger tire. You can get away with a lot of wheeling in many places without switching to LT tires but a lot of the trails in CO are old wagon/mine cart/mule tracks blasted out of the rock so you are rolling on a bed of sharp rock the entire way and it can eat up lesser tires in a hurry.

 

[Angelo1]

Thanks, all.

I think you've really helped with my decision. I don't want A/T tires on the LC. Want to be able to take quite 2k mile trips. I've had A/T's on other vehicles and do not like the noise. Some don't mind, but I do.

We have to have two vehicles. So it's not like I'm coming out of pocket. I'd trade our current vehicle for a different second. I've owned Jeeps so I know what I'm getting. I'd rather have a sport second car/suv, but I think I'm going to opt for the more off-road oriented second.

And mosquitoes - move to NC and you'll learn about them! In my time in Breck and CO, I've never thought they were close to NC.

I

Thanks, all.

I think you've really helped with my decision. I don't want A/T tires on the LC. Want to be able to take quite 2k mile trips. I've had A/T's on other vehicles and do not like the noise. Some don't mind, but I do.

We have to have two vehicles. So it's not like I'm coming out of pocket. I'd trade our current vehicle for a different second. I've owned Jeeps so I know what I'm getting. I'd rather have a sport second car/suv, but I think I'm going to opt for the more off-road oriented second.

And mosquitoes - move to NC and you'll learn about them! In my time in Breck and CO, I've never thought they were close to NC.

Jeep’s and Subaru's are a dime a dozen in CO. The Rubicon on its stock tires won’t go further then a stock cruiser and I wouldn’t trust a Jeep to take me deep into the woods unless you carry spare parts. They both need good A/T tires. Jeeps need bigger tires to look good, otherwise they look like the rentals. Granted, I sure love the rental Jeep in Maui. Nothing like having the top open. Granted in Breck that will be two to three months out of the year max unless you’re hard up to freeze with the top open.
If you’ve spent time in Breck from Sept-May, you’re crazy to own a SUV without snow rated tires. That kind of stuff drives people from CO nuts when out of towners move in not being prepared. We can get snow mid summer. So your highway smooth riding tires will be useless.

 

[RyanR]

I

Jeep’s and Subaru's are a dime a dozen in CO. The Rubicon on its stock tires won’t go further then a stock cruiser and I wouldn’t trust a Jeep to take me deep into the woods unless you carry spare parts. They both need good A/T tires. Jeeps need bigger tires to look good, otherwise they look like the rentals. Granted, I sure love the rental Jeep in Maui. Nothing like having the top open. Granted in Breck that will be two to three months out of the year max unless you’re hard up to freeze with the top open.
If you’ve spent time in Breck from Sept-May, you’re crazy to own a SUV without snow rated tires. That kind of stuff drives people from CO nuts when out of towners move in not being prepared. We can get snow mid summer. So your highway smooth riding tires will be useless.

Truth, I have watched the 4th of July fireworks show in Avon with 4" of snow on the ground in a near white out haha!

 

[Angelo1]

Nothing against Jeeps, I have owned a few and loved them but I would maybe experience a season in Breck before buying if removing the top is a big part of the appeal. You can get snowed on any day of the year up there (I have lived in the rockies in CO most of my life) and you may (or may not) find that having the hardtop on and the ability to warm up the cabin when its 25 degrees and whiteout in July is more valuable than the open air freedom (Don't worry it will be 70 and clear again in 15 minutes). I would also consider AT tires regardless.... there is rock crumbling on the roads year round, particularly in summit county where there has been a lot of blasting to create roadways and smacking some sharp softball sized rocks at 75 MPH with a tough AT is generally no big deal where it is much more likely a blow out in a Passenger tire. You can get away with a lot of wheeling in many places without switching to LT tires but a lot of the trails in CO are old wagon/mine cart/mule tracks blasted out of the rock so you are rolling on a bed of sharp rock the entire way and it can eat up lesser tires in a hurry.

I should have read your comment before I posted my follow up. People have no idea what it’s really like living above 9,000ft in the Rockies full time. I can’t count how many times I’ve seen tire blowouts on 70 thanks to all the dang potholes. Also, the few side roads in Breck/Keystone are loaded with potholes.

 

[Angelo1]

Truth, I have watched the 4th of July fireworks show in Avon with 4" of snow on the ground in a near white out haha!

I was skiing at A-Basin on the 4th in ‘19. Gotta love late season snow.

 

[fogby]

I

Jeep’s and Subaru's are a dime a dozen in CO. The Rubicon on its stock tires won’t go further then a stock cruiser and I wouldn’t trust a Jeep to take me deep into the woods unless you carry spare parts. They both need good A/T tires. Jeeps need bigger tires to look good, otherwise they look like the rentals. Granted, I sure love the rental Jeep in Maui. Nothing like having the top open. Granted in Breck that will be two to three months out of the year max unless you’re hard up to freeze with the top open.
If you’ve spent time in Breck from Sept-May, you’re crazy to own a SUV without snow rated tires. That kind of stuff drives people from CO nuts when out of towners move in not being prepared. We can get snow mid summer. So your highway smooth riding tires will be useless.

Yeah, I think we're on the same page. I know what it's like out there in the winter/spring/early summer.

I'd rather not get a Jeep, but I'm not going to compromise on the LC's ability to eat up miles upon miles in comfort on the interstate, while also being able to go pretty deep in the woods on stock tires.

 

[fogby]

My personal opinion is that that $45k (or whatever a "Rubi" plus tax title and tags costs), would be better spent in gas, seat time on trails, recovery gear, depreciation, and mild mods on the land cruiser you already own.

On the other hand, if you're just looking for people to endorse a decision you've already made, then yes, it is a great idea to buy a Jeep.

Don't really understand your comments. Thinking that reading comprehension isn't your cup of tea. Money isn't the question. Need two vehicles. If I get a Rubi, I'll trade in another for the Rubi. No cash gain or loss.

And I have absolutely no reason for anyone on this forum to endorse any decision I make. I asked a simple question, and most gave solid info that helped with my research. You on the other hand, wanted to inject your personal opinions about the rational of my question. I had a legitimate question about the performance of the LC in 100% stock trim given my relative inexperience as compared to the Rubi.

 

[ikarus]

Oh also I know you said you might get a 2 door but for technical trails I'd go with a 4 door. I think the wheelbase is a little better so you don't feel like you're going to tip over backwards while climbing inclines. Plus more cargo space.