what's the general consensus on removing the oil cooler? (1 Viewer)

[roma042987]

I'm in the process of doing a water pump, front timing cover, and crank seal on my 87 fj60 and am contemplating the need for the oil cooler. Seems like the short hose from the water pump to the pipe would be a nightmare to replace on the side of the road. Removing the oil cooler would allow you to remove two pesky coolant hoses and make the lower radiator hoses much easier to access in case they need repair. Seems like getting rid of the cooler would make the over crowded engine bay just a little cleaner. Earlier 2f engines didn't have the coolers so are they really needed?

Also a genuine toyota water pump for an fj60 is only available with the fan clutch attached and comes with a price tag of 400+ dollars. While the earlier non oil cooler pumps are still available from Toyota for a little over 100 bucks. I'm probably in too deep at this point to remove my oil cooler since I've already purchased an aisin water pump from Cruiser Corp with the oil cooler provision but can't help but wonder if I would have just been better off removing the oil cooler. The aisin water pump I received from them did NOT come in a aisin packaging and only has a tiny aisin sticker to identify it as such.

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

keep the cooler/temp stabilizer...diligence in making sure everything is new and up to snuff before you button it up should keep you from having to make that repair you mention...

 

[Ridge Runner]

keep the cooler/temp stabilizer...diligence in making sure everything is new and up to snuff before you button it up should keep you from having to make that repair you mention...

I concur.

 

[Output Shaft]

and am contemplating the need for the oil cooler

That thought process reminds me of a line I recall from the movie Jurassic Park:
God creates dinosaurs. God destroys dinosaurs. God creates man. Man destroys God. Man creates dinosaurs.

"just poking fun.. it was just too irresistible"

 

[SteveH]

While the earlier non oil cooler pumps are still available from Toyota for a little over 100 bucks.

My understanding is that early 2F water pumps (such as a non-oil cooler pump for a 2F) has been discontinued. You could get an Aisin one from Rock Auto, recently.

My '78 FJ40 has been fine all these years without an oil cooler (it's a federal spec model and never had one) and I suspect a later 2F would be ok, too. But, since you're there with the pump, I'd replace all the parts and hoses and leave it as Mr. T intended.

 

[Joe_E]

Why would you remove something so over engineered like the oil cooler?
Mr Toyoda is turning over in his grave.

 

[roma042987]

While the earlier non oil cooler pumps are still available from Toyota for a little over 100 bucks.

My understanding is that early 2F water pumps (such as a non-oil cooler pump for a 2F) has been discontinued. You could get an Aisin one from Rock Auto, recently.

My '78 FJ40 has been fine all these years without an oil cooler (it's a federal spec model and never had one) and I suspect a later 2F would be ok, too. But, since you're there with the pump, I'd replace all the parts and hoses and leave it as Mr. T intended.

purchased one from the dealer last year for a 76.

Why would you remove something so over engineered like the oil cooler?
Mr Toyoda is turning over in his grave.

over engineered isn't always best when you need to do a road side repair or in the bush. Simple is best on these rigs, at least that has always been my moto and with 5 cross country trips in my 40 without a break down..well lets just say im sticking to it. I really doubt the oil cooler does much "cooling" anyway since the water temp is going to be close to 200 degrees at operating temperature.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

The oil cooler is considered a significant upgrade. The Toyota one is well designed and rarely causes problems. Oil temps under load can hit 300 degrees, so 200 degrees sounds better.

 

[Output Shaft]

Blowing oil cooler hoses are not an issue, any more than blowing heater hoses. They are not going to blow if they are less than 20 years old... and probably still won't.
The imaginary problem of theoretically blowing that little oil cooler hose connected to the water pump is just that... and imaginary problem. Of all the hoses to blow, that would probably be the last one.

IMO, removing the oil cooler plumbing because it is perceived as "over engineered" is like removing the thermostat for the same reason... in fact, the thermostat is guaranteed to fail before the oil cooling plumbing.

 

[roma042987]

The oil cooler is considered a significant upgrade. The Toyota one is well designed and rarely causes problems. Oil temps under load can hit 300 degrees, so 200 degrees sounds better.

id be curious to know how hot the oil temps actually get under load from someone that has actually measured the temp with a gauge. I do know that race cars (road track or similar not drag racing) can get the oil temp close to 300 degrees but I highly doubt an old 2f turning 2-3k rpms would even get anywhere near that considering its monstrous oil capacity.

Blowing oil cooler hoses are not an issue, any more than blowing heater hoses. They are not going to blow if they are less than 20 years old... and probably still won't.
The imaginary problem of theoretically blowing that little oil cooler hose connected to the water pump is just that... and imaginary problem. Of all the hoses to blow, that would probably be the last one.

IMO, removing the oil cooler plumbing because it is perceived as "over engineered" is like removing the thermostat for the same reason... in fact, the thermostat is guaranteed to fail before the oil cooling plumbing.

I didn't state it was an imaginary problem. I stated that it would be a nuisance to repair in a pinch and make it much more difficult to repair the lower heater hose as well because of lack of room in that vicinity. When youre traveling far from civilization like myself and many other do on this forum the key to getting back with your vehicle is not only doing preventative maintenance but also going over "what if" scenarios and preparing for them accordingly. My "what if" thinking is what got me thinking of the necessity for the oil cooling system. SAME reason people carry spare axles, birfields, and all that other s*** on the trail. Some of us well prepared even carry spare starters alternators, hoses and belts. How can you compare an oil cooler that was used on some engines of the same family and not on others to a thermostat? The fact that the oe Toyota water pumps are so drastically overpriced and a viable option is using the non oil cooled version for a 300 dollar savings validates the possibility at least for my self to look at other alternatives all while making the vehicle easier to maintain in future repairs (ie changing lower radiator hoses) on the side of the road or preventatively. Hell same reason people cut their damn radiator shroud in half! Do water pumps go out that often? no. people still do that modification. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that certain markets didn't even have an oil cooler on some 60 series trucks.

 

[roma042987]

id love some facts maybe someone with an oil temp gauge on a 2f or someone that has removed their oil cooler. Or maybe someone has a way of looking to see if other markets had oil coolers

 

[Spike Strip]

You don't have to have it. As you state, earlier 2Fs run just fine without it, but you'll have to replace the filter mount with the earlier style. One of the Cruiser gurus around here says he routinely does it if the oil coolers start to leak. If you were living in Iraq (or Texas ) I'd leave it. I currently have mine, but I had to braze a spot to stop the leak. When it fails, I plan to remove it and replace with the earlier style.

 

[roma042987]

Interesting haven't heard of them leaking before. Do they tend to leak coolant or oil?

 

[Spike Strip]

Coolant and oil both circulate through it, so depends on where the leak is. Rust is an equal opportunity decay-er.

 

[Output Shaft]

The fact that the oe Toyota water pumps are so drastically overpriced

$76.34
PN: 16110-61081

The oil cooler is actually a heat exchanger, not just a cooler. It also heats the oil up quickly in the morning as the thermostat diverts flow through it, bypassing the radiator. It maintains (or attempts to maintain) the oil temperature at the same temperature as the coolant.

The $400 price you mentioned was for the water pump with fan clutch assy. That assy. has been discontinued though water pump and fan clutch can be purchased separately.

 

[roma042987]

Last time I checked the water pump was only available with the fan clutch hence the price. Maybe Onur can confirm

 

[Spike Strip]

Water pump is avail from Toyota for about the price Output states. You can get the OEM Aisin/ASCO for about the same price from Land Cruiser vendors and good online houses.

 

[roma042987]

just confirmed with our resident parts guru it is available still without the fan clutch 16110-61081-77 about 80 bucks. damn and I payed 100 for my aisin.

 

[Lugal]

FWIW, Last year, my oil cooler blew out while driving and I dumped all my antifreeze on the side of I-87 in about 1 1/2 minutes. (Thank you NE road salt .) Got towed to the nearest Autozone, bought some replacement hose and three gallons of premix, bypassed the effed up cooler, and drove home three hours later. It sucked, but it wasn't awful.

I ran like that for a full year until I got the chance to replace the cooler with one that I got from a friend. Now that's back on, but since I don't drive the truck much, I have no real idea how much it matters.

 

[dlzadl]

My 87 FJ60 previous owner "rigged the short hose" with a non factory issue, IE just bent a short piece of radiator hose, it failed on the side of the road and puked antifreeze all over, damn near ruined the engine. OE part is like $ 3.00 Went to the oem custom molded hose and no more problem. Beware the half asd fixer......