what is the ideal diesel motor for swap?

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plenty of talk about swapping in isuzu's, cummins 4bt or 12valve 6bt as well as mentions for others such as 12HT's duramax's powerstrokes whatever.

I am wondering what the pros and cons of the different motors are. It seems like there are tons of options and some of the domestic diesels are getting cheaper to get a hold of : i.e, cummins, 6.9 ford.

I think the ideal engine would be light: i think the duramax is aluminum block, reliable: toyota diesels or cummins 12v, easy to source parts: most of the domestics
easy to work on: ? torque and power but not busting axle shafts every 10 minutes: 3B

so is there a diesel that meets all of these requirements, and what are some of the other motors you guys have been contemplating for swaps that we havent heard of yet? and what are the pros/cons of them?
 
so is there a diesel that meets all of these requirements, and what are some of the other motors you guys have been contemplating for swaps that we havent heard of yet? and what are the pros/cons of them?

Where do you start?:D

Im not a big fan of the V8 or heavy truck diesels as they add weight and may need some extensive suspension mods to fit them.(although some are excellant motors in their own right )
Toyota designed the front suspension,steering and frame to take the weight of their engines under all conditions.


I think the ideal engine should fit in with only minor mods such as mounts etc.
So we get back to a diesel 6 and of course the 4 cyl B engines.

My vote for the best all round swap is the 1HZ.
Its becoming more plentiful and thus cheaper hopefully.
Lots of parts around for a long while.
Its got good power for a NA diesel.
It can handle a low pressure turbo set up.
Its takes a H55f transmission and t/case so it fits in with no crossmember or linkage mods.
Its a proven reliable engine that runs quiet and gets good fuel economy.
It runs clean when tuned right.
Has very simple electrics.

Of course the 1HDT is better but more expensive,and Im not certain, but probably harder to procure(it certainly is in oz).

As for non toyota 6 cyl diesel swaps that have similar criteria,I just cant think of any except those in farm tractors and stationary generators,pumps etc.
Until someone fits one and proves me wrong,I just dont think their powerband will suit the onroad requirements of a cruiser.
Swapping pumps,adding turbos and preying that it may work is not a good swap IMO unless your the adventurous type that has money and time to burn.

I also think a good swap needs an adequate budget. If not,leave the 2F where it is;)
 
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2Xs Roscoe's diesel comments...

The 1HZ is such a sweet running engine, I've even contemplated putting a turbo'd version in my 47' Chev street-rod.

I don't like the noise that the older 6BTs make - I've pulled up beside Dodges at red lights, and can't hear my 1HZ running over the noise coming from Dodge.
 
very easy, a 1HZ or a HDT, hands down.
i would go with the HZ and an aftermarket turbo since i like to tinker but Greg and Sheldon sell the HDT which makes for an easy install esp with Sheldons great weath of installation knowledge to tap into.

power, fuel economy, quiet...what more do you want?
 
Some other thngs about the 1HZ that I like is that it is easy for the home mechanic to work on.
I cant think of anything on the outside that is difficult to remove/install.

Ill probably take mine to a mechanic to have the valves done when its time and of course pumps and injectors are best left to those who have the knowhow and facilities,but everything else is can be done easily at home.
 
hmmm, the 1HZ seems to really stand out, i was curious because of options like buying an old ford diesel, using motor transmission and t-case would be easier and cheaper than buying a isuzu motor or whatever, than procuring parts from lots of sources. The toyota diesels will be lighter, dependable, lots of power but not to (depends on opinion) much torque. Just the prices for used toyota diesels is a little hard to swallow.

Also i believe the majority of 80 series cruisers all came with autos other than the diesel 80's which you wouldnt need to swap anyway, so swapping in an automatic would probally be easier and lighter than a manual. Id rather have a manual myself but i think maybe putting an auto in an auto would make things easier.

Ive been thinking about getting the better half a 80 series (probally a cheaper high km one) when we get home, let her drive it for a couple years until it needs expensive repairs or we have enough dough for something else, and then ill get the 80 for a project vehicle. Then i might sell my 60 series and do whatever mods i want to it.

Ill have to start reading into the 1HZ a little more.
 
auto lighter than the manual...waaay wrong. the auto is a heavy beast...

you also want longevity if you are going to do a swap and the 7.3 is a HUGE engine and weighs a half a ton
 
i was thinking of 6.9 out of late 80 ford. and i was told that the autos in the newer models are lighter and they use the autos in the max payload comparisons to achieve higher capacities. although i suppose this would differ between ford, gm, toyota too.
 
well...theres obviously pro's and cons to all the engines, do you want to go hardcore toyota and "keep it all toyota" if your ok with a domestic engine i think the cummins are the best bet but they still have issues like the height of the engine. the cummins needs at least a couple inches lift (heard around 4") to fit otherwise your going to have problems with the oil pan hitting your axels. the huge amount of torque and HP produced by these engines could be a problem (150+hp and 400+lb/t) with your axels but with chromo axles i think they would be alright as these engines when in their stock truck are usualy running D60 axles i think (but keep your gearing in mind also). rosco mentioned weight as being an issue with the domestic engines and really i cant see it being that big of a deal....2F engine weights in at 700+lbs and the cummins 6BT at aroune 900-1000, ok so a couple hundred pounds difference but really....lets think about that. a couple hundred pounds is the difference between me driving or my grandfather driving....or think of all that extra weight that the beefy bumper and winch is gunna add as well as other accesories like dual batteries,bigger gas tank, on board air or welder, tube fenders ect...i dont think adding 200-300 pounds is going to seriously effect the vehicle that much, heavier leaf springs might be in order but other than that i would be more concerned about torque and getting chromo/stronger axles.

having read my rant about the domestic engines i am also not against the toyota engines, toyota after all makes great engines and will run for a long time and be dependable but maybe a bit tougher to source out parts for.also with a toyota engine there is the possability of being able to use stock tranny or t-case. the 2H engine will use the same tranny as your 2F but the 3B needs a different tranny (any options other than the 5 speed?)

and the GM diesels i dont know much about so i wont realy comment on them other than the fact that i have been told the early GM diesels were crap and not really built heavy enough for a diesel and have had issues.

both the toy and cummins diesel engine are solid engines will last a long time in your rig so long as their good when you put them in..
 
i have a 3B with 5 speed in my BJ60 but im more curious about what would work for 80 series.

Thanks for all the info, wayne i was guessing about the weights for transmissions, sometimes i hate to ask or ill be told to use the search function but i guess thats my own fault.

Id really like to see a info thread with the differnet domestic and import motors, what transmissions will bolt on, weights, power+torque, problems asociated with mounting in the different series, and other pros and cons.
 
I agree with you Yotawheeler,
the Early Chevy diesels were modified gasoline engines, which could not hold up the power, pressures, and abuse of a real diesel. As of late, they have redesigned everything.. but your looking at a more expensive motor now.
Keeping with the chevy engine, allows you to keep your drivetrain, as well as staying with the Toyota Diesel. The Cummins will force you to change out your drive train, unless you can find an adapter to go from cummins to toyota, but I dont think the tranny would like that much.. the other way is to find someone to adapt the toy transfercase to the dodge engine. I havent been able to find that eather.

The toyota diesels, from what I hear, suffer only from a lack of Power, and that seems to be what everyone wants.. is more power. Thats why we swap to 350chevys, more power than the gaser I-6 and easy to swap in. Parts are also plentiful and cheep. I have also read that it seems getting the electrical correct for the engine management tends to be ... fusterating. Other than that, they only reason that kept me away from it was the inital cost of the engine. you can get the Cummins for 1/2 the price.

What you need to determin, Is how much do you want to spend.. or how much can you afford to spend. Which ever way. you will be looking at around $10,000 give or take a few thousand, depending on parts and who is going to be doing the bulk of the work.
In my opinion, the Cummins is the easiest to work on. Everything is pretty easy to get to, parts are plentyfull and local, and there is more than enough power that can be tapped from it for future mods. Get an earlier 12V and you dont have to worry about messing with a computer and wires.
If you wondering about fitting it into an 80, you can view my build up thred in Hardcore. https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=84611
I got a little carried away, and will be spending too much.. but thats ok. you can do it for cheaper.
Theres not too many cons for the Cummins, cept for maybe the weight.. but like yota said.. you add that and say nothing with winches, bumpers batteries etc. The transmission would pose a problem, Right now my problem is hooking up the front drive line which is passenger side drop, well, the transmission pan gets in the way.. Which means im gonna have to have a custom pan made from a stock unit. Or cut up my new deep pan and hope it gives enough space for driveline movement. Ahh yes.. and the size of the engine. It is about 3 inches taller and 3" longer with Out the Fan assyembly.(add about 5-12 more inches if you run with the stock fan) I have a 6" lift and a 3" body lift to get her to set in and still close the hood with no problems.

I dont know much about the fords, cept they are WIDE, and the turbo goes down the middle of the engine, where the firewall is.. may pose a problem. as well as the V configuration and the rest of your componets. (steering, brake booster etc.)

the Hino is a smaller engine you could use which is soposed to be close to toyotas engine. Dont know much about them.. but they are avi. Just hard to locate the one that suits your needs.
Isuzu has nice little 4cyls. but seemed hard to find a 4x4 transmission to bolt to it. as well as the Hino.
A 3-5 cyl Deuitz would be nice. Oil cooled, little louder, stong little engine used to running 24-7 when needed. but again.. what type of transmission.
Mercedes seems to be a wanted swap. take the whole drivetrain from one of them weard looking trucks they make. More expensive, but smooth, quiet, very responsive, .. lots of wiring,.. same with the VW touarg..

Sorry its so long.. but theres lots of info for just a few questions.

-Ron
 
I’m pretty sure Advanced Adapters makes an adapter from the dodge NV4500 to a LC t-case. I have looked into a diesel conversion for a few years now. Started with chevy, ford, then thought about dodge...but am sick of “big” “noisy” diesels...so what about the newer CAT or Perkins...yeah what a great engine but what kind of trans/transfer....unless you want a hydro stat drive...I didn’t think so...he he. Well before coming back to this web site...and I had wished I had long before..but anyways I have decided to go with the HDT as well. It took me a few months to find G&S....(I should have come back here to look for them) but I think if you are in Canada or the States they are a great resource! Hands down! I have called numbers of Japanese engine imports...I don’t even have to explain why I will not deal with them.....

Good Luck

Also...Kuboda makes great engines that bolt to GM transmissions if anybody is interested...they would need to be built for higher rmp’s though...that lead me back to the 1HD-T. :idea:
 
Well I looked up the Dodge NV4500. I see that they "Advanced Adapters" classify an adapter for the "gas" tranny...I don't know if there is a difference between gasoline and diesel transmissions. Then the third one is not classified for either gas or diesel the bell housing part number for that one is 712576 and is says you will need this input shaft 52-0227

Still a lot for a tall, long, noisy engine...I suppose depending on what you are looking for though. ;)

I'm not sure if this is the right adapter either for the Dodge NV4500 to a LC t-case so don't get it and find out it's not d=)
 
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the Early Chevy diesels were modified gasoline engines
This is a myth I had always believed until set straight. The late 70's/early eighties Olds 350 (5.7) diesels were actually designed from the ground up as a diesel. They were made with the same ext dimmensions & many similarities externally as the gasser so they could share motor mounts, accessories and transmissions. They were crap until GM worked out the bugs. Mid 81 & 82(last) model years are ok, but I still don't think I'd touch one though.
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Some pros for the 6.2/6.5 diesels: Cheap, Only 40lbs heavier than a 2F, Have a wide useable power band, Will rev, Are relatively quiet in N/A form, Fits well and no lift required.
 
late 6.9....early 7.3.......same thing
 
the 6.9 or 7.3 whatever is ok if you want to keep an extra injection pump or two in the glove box. Don't disgrace the toyota. Any toyota B, H or 1HZ would work just fine. Besides the work of tranferring over the hulking drivtrain of a fullsize truck wouldn't be worthwile.
 
Here's another vote for the bullet proof HZ.

picture.JPG
 
A buddy and I are in the process of installing a
12 valve 6BT/4 speed auto/np205 out of a
1991 power ram 350 into a 79 troopy. The motor is a tight fit but doable. No room for the intercooler tho.
 
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