What gives with the HDJ81 JDM scaremongering?

[Dave 2000]

@nickolai Without Malice.

Well your first paragraph is actually accurate.
Your second paragraph is accurate as well, machinery needs maintenance, it's a fact of life, a 250 dollar washing machine or 50 million dollar jet fighter.

Your grasping at obvious facts is at best a weak effort to bolster some of your earlier posts.

Lets take your 'fact' about the T26 turbo, of course it will need servicing, it's mechanical, it runs at very high temperatures, it spins at thousands of revolutions per minute (even still spinning when you switch off the engine), no magic here, it's pure common sense, it will need repairing at sometime or maybe never depending how you drive and look after your engine.

Changing oil at 5,000 MILES is recommended, however of course the individual's use of the vehicle should be taken into account, but also the progress in manufacturing oils. A FACT is that modern oils can protect 30 year old high mileage engines, and believe it or not to at least 12,000 miles, there is data to support this. Add this fact to a modern diesel engine and you can see why service intervals are now at least 20,000 miles, if driving more motorway miles then that figure will climb considerably higher.

You keep using the word 'magical', your right, there is nothing magical about a 30 year old truck being immune to needing servicing, I don't recall anyone stating that in the first place anyway, but isn't that true of any vehicle regardless of age?

You mentioned not all of the servicing is DIY, and could be spendy, again I challenge that.

You need to have an open mind. If you are not particularly mechanically minded but have decided an old car (not necessarily an 80) is for you, then you would either have plenty of spare capital to be able to have the vehicle cared by a garage, but if not particularly flush with cash then you will invariably join a club that specialises in whatever marque/model you have set your sights on. One of the facts you are missing, is that older vehicles are easier to repair albeit taking longer. With modern vehicles 3/4 of labour charges are finding out what's wrong with it in the first place. Consider this factual event. A customer calls me because her Skoda Fabia glow plug warning light has come on, this vehicle is around 11 years old. She has already mentioned it to a couple of her neighbours that her vehicle handbook said 'Return to dealer.' One of the neighbours who is an ex mechanic, has the art of sucking through the teeth and waving his head off to a tee, as he tells her that it was going to be expensive for sure.

Car was starting and driving fine, I get her to pop over to the garage I had at the time, I replaced two brake light bulbs, cleared the error with OBD software, job done! You see in Spain, if any one of the three brake lights are not working then no big deal, but lose two and you a driving an illegal vehicle, so one dashboard light used to indicate an issue with something like 40 different problems. Now if that had been say for example a fuel pump issue, I would have removed the pump and sent it away for servicing, it is a specialist job to repair, but the cost would have been the same if not cheaper for the pump on an 80 and why, because the pump on the 30 year old 80 is mechanical, the pump on the 11 year Skoda (VW engine) is electromechanical.

Despite being a mechanic I joined MUD, I had virtually no experience with the 80 but had owned a Land Rover (similar layout but not as tough), but was used here in Spanish competitions, but it is better to be informed than find out later that there may be issues with certain models. Immediately a savvy member warned me of the big end bearing issue the 1HDT engine had!

So I made the purchase and changed the big end bearings. For me I think it was a couple of hours under the engine? If I had not been a mechanic, and not particularly flush with cash then there would undoubtedly be a 'how too' in MUD.

In closing, my point being, scaremongering is just that, it's BS. Do a little research, buy your chosen vehicle and pay the garage to fix it if you have the capital or, join a club such as MUD and learn to DIY.

I cannot explain any clearer than what I have thus far, so have to call it a day.

Regards

Dave

 

[John Young]

Just to throw in 2 cents... I have been in the process of putting an 1HD-FT into an 80 that came originally with a 1HZ. The 1HD-FT had only a little over 200km and I figured it would be in pretty good shape despite the crappy work that had been done on the HDJ81 that it came from. The more we get into it, the more we find. Just today, for example, I dropped by the machine shop and learned that the crank was out somewhere else because the rear main seal had worn a groove in the crank and a flame deposition process followed by grinding was being used to restore the dimensions. I don't think this is a normal wear issue for a 200k km engine. Nor having to deal with a pretty significant blow-by issue seem like something I should have anticipated. One thing is for sure after this is that I will be changing the oil every 5k km. Or was that 5k miles...

 

[Dave 2000]

Just to throw in 2 cents... I have been in the process of putting an 1HD-FT into an 80 that came originally with a 1HZ. The 1HD-FT had only a little over 200km and I figured it would be in pretty good shape despite the crappy work that had been done on the HDJ81 that it came from. The more we get into it, the more we find. Just today, for example, I dropped by the machine shop and learned that the crank was out somewhere else because the rear main seal had worn a groove in the crank and a flame deposition process followed by grinding was being used to restore the dimensions. I don't think this is a normal wear issue for a 200k km engine. Nor having to deal with a pretty significant blow-by issue seem like something I should have anticipated. One thing is for sure after this is that I will be changing the oil every 5k km. Or was that 5k miles...

It had to happen, pure abuse. I was once offered an 80 from a traveller, it was used to tow one of those beautiful caravans, everywhere inside was black...and I mean black with soot, apparently because that where he stored and run his generator!

Regards

Dave.

 

[nickolai]

@nickolai Without Malice.

Well your first paragraph is actually accurate.
Your second paragraph is accurate as well, machinery needs maintenance, it's a fact of life, a 250 dollar washing machine or 50 million dollar jet fighter.

Your grasping at obvious facts is at best a weak effort to bolster some of your earlier posts.

Lets take your 'fact' about the T26 turbo, of course it will need servicing, it's mechanical, it runs at very high temperatures, it spins at thousands of revolutions per minute (even still spinning when you switch off the engine), no magic here, it's pure common sense, it will need repairing at sometime or maybe never depending how you drive and look after your engine.

Changing oil at 5,000 MILES is recommended, however of course the individual's use of the vehicle should be taken into account, but also the progress in manufacturing oils. A FACT is that modern oils can protect 30 year old high mileage engines, and believe it or not to at least 12,000 miles, there is data to support this. Add this fact to a modern diesel engine and you can see why service intervals are now at least 20,000 miles, if driving more motorway miles then that figure will climb considerably higher.

You keep using the word 'magical', your right, there is nothing magical about a 30 year old truck being immune to needing servicing, I don't recall anyone stating that in the first place anyway, but isn't that true of any vehicle regardless of age?

You mentioned not all of the servicing is DIY, and could be spendy, again I challenge that.

You need to have an open mind. If you are not particularly mechanically minded but have decided an old car (not necessarily an 80) is for you, then you would either have plenty of spare capital to be able to have the vehicle cared by a garage, but if not particularly flush with cash then you will invariably join a club that specialises in whatever marque/model you have set your sights on. One of the facts you are missing, is that older vehicles are easier to repair albeit taking longer. With modern vehicles 3/4 of labour charges are finding out what's wrong with it in the first place. Consider this factual event. A customer calls me because her Skoda Fabia glow plug warning light has come on, this vehicle is around 11 years old. She has already mentioned it to a couple of her neighbours that her vehicle handbook said 'Return to dealer.' One of the neighbours who is an ex mechanic, has the art of sucking through the teeth and waving his head off to a tee, as he tells her that it was going to be expensive for sure.

Car was starting and driving fine, I get her to pop over to the garage I had at the time, I replaced two brake light bulbs, cleared the error with OBD software, job done! You see in Spain, if any one of the three brake lights are not working then no big deal, but lose two and you a driving an illegal vehicle, so one dashboard light used to indicate an issue with something like 40 different problems. Now if that had been say for example a fuel pump issue, I would have removed the pump and sent it away for servicing, it is a specialist job to repair, but the cost would have been the same if not cheaper for the pump on an 80 and why, because the pump on the 30 year old 80 is mechanical, the pump on the 11 year Skoda (VW engine) is electromechanical.

Despite being a mechanic I joined MUD, I had virtually no experience with the 80 but had owned a Land Rover (similar layout but not as tough), but was used here in Spanish competitions, but it is better to be informed than find out later that there may be issues with certain models. Immediately a savvy member warned me of the big end bearing issue the 1HDT engine had!

So I made the purchase and changed the big end bearings. For me I think it was a couple of hours under the engine? If I had not been a mechanic, and not particularly flush with cash then there would undoubtedly be a 'how too' in MUD.

In closing, my point being, scaremongering is just that, it's BS. Do a little research, buy your chosen vehicle and pay the garage to fix it if you have the capital or, join a club such as MUD and learn to DIY.

I cannot explain any clearer than what I have thus far, so have to call it a day.

Regards

Dave

I stand behind my previous points.

Other posters implying that they have magically purchased old vechiles that will never need injectors, pumps and turbos serviced is fantasyland stuff. Where I live that might cost $3,000USD or so. That's an expense to be considered, particularly as more people import them to the US, or people less familar with the costs of owning a diesel truck purchase them

Most of the time you see 5,000KM oil changes reccommended. A quick search of this forum shows that 1FZ owners are recommending somewhere between 6-9,000Miles. That means you're changing oils more frequently. That costs money and would need to be considered as part of running costs. Yes it's not much but its still part of running costs. I also don't think it's unreasonable to expect to need to service injectors. As one poster pointed out there's no way I can no if his injectors need doing - though there is an increased likelyhood of that being the case as these trucks age.

I'm simply pointing out that even the most experienced DIY mechanic won't be able to service injectors, pumps and turbos at home. They need experts with the right Bosch/Denso tooling and test gear.

All diesel 80s are old now. Most will have done big KM - mines at 420,000. There will be some trucks that need their injectors, pumps and turbos serviced. I would expect that to need to happen on an old truck. A potential owner will need to consider/remember that this is part of the cost of ownership. People can choose not to service them or not - i really don't care - I'm just pointing out that it is reasonable to expect an old diesel truck might need it's injectors serviced.

One last point and I will call this a day too. A lot of owners of these trucks in the US have spent big money to import them. They will be looking to justify these decisions, meaning we often see some dubious claims about cost of ownership, fuel consumption etc etc.

At the end of the day we will all make our own choices about how to run our trucks, no one is more right than someone else.

 

[steezy]

I love LandCruisers but gosh damn their owners are prickly!

 

[charlay61]

Let's not forget also that any modern car/truck will enventually run into some issues that can be more costly than the ones on a diesel lc. Plus those modern computers on wheels do not keep value.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Other posters implying that they have magically purchased old vechiles that will never need injectors, pumps and turbos serviced

Who has claimed 'never'?

Toyota gives 'recommended' service intervals.
Toyota is famously conservative.
Recommended intervals take into consideration use in a whole range of environments, which for a landcruiser includes use in the harshest parts of the planet.
It considers that clean fuel, clean oil, fresh filters may not be available at all times.

Toyota recommendations covers Toyota's reputation in close to the worst usage case scenario.

If you have a mall cruiser, in a modern city, you put quality oil in it, and clean fuel, there's absolutely no reason to expect you'll need to do the same amount of maintenance as someone who lives in rural Africa/australis/snow Mexico etc

If you want to religiously follow Toyota maintenance schedule, no-one is telling you not to.

If you are confident in exercising your own judgement, real world experience shows Toyota is conservative, and your rig is not likely to shìt the bed of you haven't replaced the IP and injectors at 210k km.

 

[nickolai]

Who has claimed 'never'?

Toyota gives 'recommended' service intervals.
Toyota is famously conservative.
Recommended intervals take into consideration use in a whole range of environments, which for a landcruiser includes use in the harshest parts of the planet.
It considers that clean fuel, clean oil, fresh filters may not be available at all times.

Toyota recommendations covers Toyota's reputation in close to the worst usage case scenario.

If you have a mall cruiser, in a modern city, you put quality oil in it, and clean fuel, there's absolutely no reason to expect you'll need to do the same amount of maintenance as someone who lives in rural Africa/australis/snow Mexico etc

If you want to religiously follow Toyota maintenance schedule, no-one is telling you not to.

If you are confident in exercising your own judgement, real world experience shows Toyota is conservative, and your rig is not likely to shìt the bed of you haven't replaced the IP and injectors at 210k km.

Once more then i'm done:

An old diesel truck is likely to need its injectors and pump serviced at some stage in its life. This will cost money and need to be done by a pro. To be really specific here because you guys seem to not be able to read between the lines, removing and replacing the injectors and pump can be DIY'd but the actual rebuild of the pump and injectors needs to be done by a shop with the Denso/Bosch tooling and test gear. They won't magically do this for free - it will cost you money and this should be factored into cost of ownership. It's up to individuals to decide if this is problem or barrier to entry. Toyota doesn't specify a service interval for this work so judgement will need to be exercised, but as a truck gets older and does more km the likelihood increases.

All i'm saying is if you want to own one of these trucks consider that you might have to have the injectors and pump done at some point. This may or may not be a big deal; for individuals - most of you guys in the US have paid a pretty penny for these trucks so i doubt you're that bothered, but people can decide for themselves if and when they want to do this, based on performance, leaks, while-i'm-in-theres, angle of the sun or dead reckons.

 

[steezy]

Once more then i'm done:

An old diesel truck is likely to need its injectors and pump serviced at some stage in its life. This will cost money and need to be done by a pro. To be really specific here because you guys seem to not be able to read between the lines, removing and replacing the injectors and pump can be DIY'd but the actual rebuild of the pump and injectors needs to be done by a shop with the Denso/Bosch tooling and test gear. They won't magically do this for free - it will cost you money and this should be factored into cost of ownership. It's up to individuals to decide if this is problem or barrier to entry. Toyota doesn't specify a service interval for this work so judgement will need to be exercised, but as a truck gets older and does more km the likelihood increases.

All i'm saying is if you want to own one of these trucks consider that you might have to have the injectors and pump done at some point. This may or may not be a big deal; for individuals - most of you guys in the US have paid a pretty penny for these trucks so i doubt you're that bothered, but people can decide for themselves if and when they want to do this, based on performance, leaks, while-i'm-in-theres, angle of the sun or dead reckons.

Yeah there’s a shop by my house that only does IPs and injectors. We’re good (when it’s needed). It’s not too expensive, just inconvenient. I’ve got a work truck so no biggie.

 

[OGBeno]

Once more then i'm done:

An old diesel truck is likely to need its injectors and pump serviced at some stage in its life. This will cost money and need to be done by a pro. To be really specific here because you guys seem to not be able to read between the lines, removing and replacing the injectors and pump can be DIY'd but the actual rebuild of the pump and injectors needs to be done by a shop with the Denso/Bosch tooling and test gear. They won't magically do this for free - it will cost you money and this should be factored into cost of ownership. It's up to individuals to decide if this is problem or barrier to entry. Toyota doesn't specify a service interval for this work so judgement will need to be exercised, but as a truck gets older and does more km the likelihood increases.

All i'm saying is if you want to own one of these trucks consider that you might have to have the injectors and pump done at some point. This may or may not be a big deal; for individuals - most of you guys in the US have paid a pretty penny for these trucks so i doubt you're that bothered, but people can decide for themselves if and when they want to do this, based on performance, leaks, while-i'm-in-theres, angle of the sun or dead reckons.

 

[SNLC]

The diesels need leas maintenance. You don’t have plugs, wires, dizzy, coil, ignitor, fuel pump, MAF and so forth. Once they are dialed in you don’t have to touch the diesel besides changing fluids.

Easily get 200-500,000 miles out of injectors and pumps. Turbos can go 200k before rebuild or more. Yes injectors and injection pumps are expensive to rebuild. So is a 1FZFE.

Yes the diesels can crack heads but I have only seen this on 1HDTs. Usually due to overboosting with stock head studs and or high sustained EGTs. Not seen any issues whit FT/FTEs in terms of BEB or heads.

I like both platforms but sure seems to me the 80-series was designed for the diesels. Far easier to work on, way more room in the engine bay, better layout in the engine bay and plenty more reasons.

I change my oil when it is dirty or at 4,000 miles whichever is first. It is always dirty before 4k miles. Same for all my maintenance, if you take it out and use it in the dirt, mud, rocks it needs more maintenance, even more so if you do creek fording. Knuckles + wheel bearings are meant to be serviced at 30-60k miles, 5-10k if you submerge them often. Bottom line, service it by how you use it. If you drove through a creek for 150yrds to the top of your 315’s, check your diffs, grease your drivelines, pump some grease in your knuckles. These things apply to all Cruisers in my mind.

Cheers

 

[Dave 2000]

I stand behind my previous points.

Other posters implying that they have magically purchased old vechiles that will never need injectors, pumps and turbos serviced is fantasyland stuff. Where I live that might cost $3,000USD or so. That's an expense to be considered, particularly as more people import them to the US, or people less familar with the costs of owning a diesel truck purchase them

Most of the time you see 5,000KM oil changes reccommended. A quick search of this forum shows that 1FZ owners are recommending somewhere between 6-9,000Miles. That means you're changing oils more frequently. That costs money and would need to be considered as part of running costs. Yes it's not much but its still part of running costs. I also don't think it's unreasonable to expect to need to service injectors. As one poster pointed out there's no way I can no if his injectors need doing - though there is an increased likelyhood of that being the case as these trucks age.

I'm simply pointing out that even the most experienced DIY mechanic won't be able to service injectors, pumps and turbos at home. They need experts with the right Bosch/Denso tooling and test gear.

All diesel 80s are old now. Most will have done big KM - mines at 420,000. There will be some trucks that need their injectors, pumps and turbos serviced. I would expect that to need to happen on an old truck. A potential owner will need to consider/remember that this is part of the cost of ownership. People can choose not to service them or not - i really don't care - I'm just pointing out that it is reasonable to expect an old diesel truck might need it's injectors serviced.

One last point and I will call this a day too. A lot of owners of these trucks in the US have spent big money to import them. They will be looking to justify these decisions, meaning we often see some dubious claims about cost of ownership, fuel consumption etc etc.

At the end of the day we will all make our own choices about how to run our trucks, no one is more right than someone else.

Of course, your absolutely right.

Regards

Dave

 

[Dusten]

The diesels need leas maintenance. You don’t have plugs, wires, dizzy, coil, ignitor, fuel pump, MAF and so forth. Once they are dialed in you don’t have to touch the diesel besides changing fluids.

Easily get 200-500,000 miles out of injectors and pumps. Turbos can go 200k before rebuild or more. Yes injectors and injection pumps are expensive to rebuild. So is a 1FZFE.

Yes the diesels can crack heads but I have only seen this on 1HDTs. Usually due to overboosting with stock head studs and or high sustained EGTs. Not seen any issues whit FT/FTEs in terms of BEB or heads.

I like both platforms but sure seems to me the 80-series was designed for the diesels. Far easier to work on, way more room in the engine bay, better layout in the engine bay and plenty more reasons.

I change my oil when it is dirty or at 4,000 miles whichever is first. It is always dirty before 4k miles. Same for all my maintenance, if you take it out and use it in the dirt, mud, rocks it needs more maintenance, even more so if you do creek fording. Knuckles + wheel bearings are meant to be serviced at 30-60k miles, 5-10k if you submerge them often. Bottom line, service it by how you use it. If you drove through a creek for 150yrds to the top of your 315’s, check your diffs, grease your drivelines, pump some grease in your knuckles. These things apply to all Cruisers in my mind.

Cheers

Every time I see a post about something in the engine being hard to reach or touch to work on I pop my hood and smile.

 

[67azcruizr]

"Give me some of your best HDJ81 success stories! I need some confidence and excitement this future purchase!"


it IS important to offer facts regarding any topic individuals are open to discuss

it CAN be productive and constructive to offer opinions as long as opposing opinions are/can be considered

it is NEVER ok to express an opinion and consider it exclusive, than attempt to validate it with non-exclusive facts that parallel an opposing opinion

I will gladly accept any/all Toyota Diesel vehicles with an HZ or HD platform that current owners deem "extreme maintenance vehicles", real time!

 

[Dave 2000]

I got rid of the mechanical fan, and of course cowling, I also got rid of the 24v change over relay, so that gave a little more space, but I have to agree, plenty of room to work around the old girl, if it is ever needed. I do have a leak in the AC system somewhere though, so l must get get some dye in there and have a root around, temps here in Murcia province have been hitting 42°C!

Regards

Dave.

 

[Dusten]

I got rid of the mechanical fan, and of course cowling, I also got rid of the 24v change over relay, so that gave a little more space, but I have to agree, plenty of room to work around the old girl, if it is ever needed. I do have a leak in the AC system somewhere though, so l must get get some dye in there and have a root around, temps here in Murcia province have been hitting 42°C!

Regards

Dave.

My hdj is my only rig with ac. Thankfully a hot day here is less than 30c

 

[peneumbra2]

Just take the old engine out and put in one of those 2.8 Cummins 4-cylinders. When you buy one, you get the crate it comes in free, and you can use the wood in your fireplace next winter!

 

[Beach80]

I've continued to prepare for an eventual HDJ81 purchase, learning what to expect concerning baselining and preventative maintenance. Mud is absolutely the best resource for this, and while I see some write about positive examples of HDJ81 ownership and operation in the USA, I also see a fair bit of scaremongering.

There seems to be this ominous message from some that you better have a BIG BIG budget set aside for maintenance and repairs. Or...BEWARE...parts are either unavailable, prohibitively expensive (i.e. fuel injection pump $$$$$$), or they take forever to procure.

I get these trucks are old and getting older, and that they are not North American rigs...but if I didn't know any better I'd think purchasing an HDJ81 was tantamount to buying a ticking time bomb and setting your money on fire.

Give me some of your best HDJ81 success stories! I need some confidence and excitement this future purchase!

I've owned one for 3 years. I've done extensive maintenance and have found parts not that hard to get. Most of the time the shipping from Amayama is cheaper than from the toyota dealer down the street from me. Minus large items getting aftermarket fun stuff from Australia isn't terrible because exchange rate is favorable. I've also been able to source products specific to an hdj81 here in the US. I've never got the fabled 20mpg, more like 12 to 14. The connecting rod bearings (BEBS) are a real concern. Negative, you need to be willing to tune these yourself, at least where I live, trying to find a diesel shop willing to tune injection pump ect on it has been tough.

 

[Dusten]

I've owned one for 3 years. I've done extensive maintenance and have found parts not that hard to get. Most of the time the shipping from Amayama is cheaper than from the toyota dealer down the street from me. Minus large items getting aftermarket fun stuff from Australia isn't terrible because exchange rate is favorable. I've also been able to source products specific to an hdj81 here in the US. I've never got the fabled 20mpg, more like 12 to 14. The connecting rod bearings (BEBS) are a real concern. Negative, you need to be willing to tune these yourself, at least where I live, trying to find a diesel shop willing to tune injection pump ect on it has been tough.

12?

Even a day wheeling saw 14

 

[AussieHJCruza]

Just take the old engine out and put in one of those 2.8 Cummins 4-cylinders. When you buy one, you get the crate it comes in free, and you can use the wood in your fireplace next winter!

And keep the old engine ready to go back in when the little Cummins carks it.