What gives with the HDJ81 JDM scaremongering? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter george bluth
- Start date
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My basic premise is that diesel 80s require more frequent and expensive servicing that a gas 80, and that owning these trucks requires several things:
- Accepting that there are some big ticket things that are "wear items" and need some fairly expensive rebuilds at intervals - eg injectors and probably pump every 100k - that aren't needed on the gas engines.
- Accepting that pretty much everyone recommends oil and filter every 5000k, and they need 10L which adds up
- That for a lot of this, even an experienced DIYer will need to outsource work - you won't be rebuilding injectors, pumps or turbos by yourself.
- You'll need to get familiar with ordering from Amayama, Partsouq, Cruiser outfitters etc.
- Thread starter
- #63
For all my belly aching about what I referred to as scaremongering (hyperbole, I know) about owning an HDJ81, I’ll admit I did take heed.
I had a chance to buy a really nice example, and after a ton of back-and-forth in my mind, I walked away. I simply wasn’t in a place to make the truck my main hobby. If I were a Canadian importing 10 years earlier, I might feel differently.
They really are the coolest 80s out there. I’ll have to admire from afar!
I had a chance to buy a really nice example, and after a ton of back-and-forth in my mind, I walked away. I simply wasn’t in a place to make the truck my main hobby. If I were a Canadian importing 10 years earlier, I might feel differently.
They really are the coolest 80s out there. I’ll have to admire from afar!
Dave 2000
Not all Land Rovers are useless!
Well I think I am well placed to make a comment, apart from owning a diesel 80, I am a mechanic with my own business as well. Fair comment my HDJ80 is not an 81 but essentially they are the same animal mechanically.
My 80 has over 285,000 miles on the clock, and is maintained to the best of my abilities, so regular servicing, using decent quality oils and filters, I have the full service record up fo the moment I purchased it, the fuel pump and turbocharger are original.
The negative comments seem to be geared around the fuel pumps and turbos, which may be true if the car was poorly serviced or driven by a dickhead! The engine was designed for a bus, with god knows how many good or bad drivers behind the steering wheel? What scares people is the fact that the pump as a single item is expensive, as is the turbocharger. So if having to replace either of them after say 400,000+ miles then so be it. Try comparing the overall running cost of a gasoline version versus the diesel.
Turbos? Come on, they need clean filtered oil and just a few seconds to cool off if you have been driving the vehicle hard, in Japan most turbocharged motors have a 'run on' or 'turbo timer' facility. That is you pull up and switch off the motor and lock the vehicle and go off....but the motor does not actually switch off, it will idle on for 30 seconds or so, then it will shut down itself, this allows the turbocharger to cool off whilst the oil is still circulating, most countries do not allow that facility, so imported vehicles often have had that disabled or even removed. Driving around town and just switching off is no big deal, come off a motorway perhaps at a service station, then pull up and let the motor idle for 30 seconds.
Fuel economy, look at the rev counter and you will see that old style diesels are driven differently to their modern counterparts, use the low end torque to get you on the move, thrashing the motor to around to 4,000+ rpm is not the answer to make progress, that's not to say the diesel can't be hustled along.
The one weakness is the poor quality big end bearings in the original Toyota HDJ 80/81 12 valve diesel motors, if your not sure they have been changed then get them done, its a couple of hours work and job done. If your not a mechanic, get a decent workshop to do the job for you, you will be surprised how cheap this seemingly big job is, no need to remove the motor.
The diesel engine if looked after will outlast the gasoline version by at least 250,000 miles if not more. The diesel engine does not blow its head gaskets.
There is not a dozen things to cause the inspection failures that happen to the gasoline 80's which are invariably emission related. And of course this ties in nicely with the myriad of electronic components that can fail of which anyone can sideline the gasoline motor.
The diesel is simple and easy to maintain, the timing belt can be changed in 30 minutes, and lasts for 80,000 miles, you even get a reminder on the dashboard, so get yours changed when you get the vehicle and press the reset counter on the dashboard, I recommend writing the mileage on the underside of the hood with a permanent marker, just in case though.
So, in a nutshell you will spend less money repairing a diesel, and a lot less time under the hood trying to fix something....period!
Regards
Dave
My 80 has over 285,000 miles on the clock, and is maintained to the best of my abilities, so regular servicing, using decent quality oils and filters, I have the full service record up fo the moment I purchased it, the fuel pump and turbocharger are original.
The negative comments seem to be geared around the fuel pumps and turbos, which may be true if the car was poorly serviced or driven by a dickhead! The engine was designed for a bus, with god knows how many good or bad drivers behind the steering wheel? What scares people is the fact that the pump as a single item is expensive, as is the turbocharger. So if having to replace either of them after say 400,000+ miles then so be it. Try comparing the overall running cost of a gasoline version versus the diesel.
Turbos? Come on, they need clean filtered oil and just a few seconds to cool off if you have been driving the vehicle hard, in Japan most turbocharged motors have a 'run on' or 'turbo timer' facility. That is you pull up and switch off the motor and lock the vehicle and go off....but the motor does not actually switch off, it will idle on for 30 seconds or so, then it will shut down itself, this allows the turbocharger to cool off whilst the oil is still circulating, most countries do not allow that facility, so imported vehicles often have had that disabled or even removed. Driving around town and just switching off is no big deal, come off a motorway perhaps at a service station, then pull up and let the motor idle for 30 seconds.
Fuel economy, look at the rev counter and you will see that old style diesels are driven differently to their modern counterparts, use the low end torque to get you on the move, thrashing the motor to around to 4,000+ rpm is not the answer to make progress, that's not to say the diesel can't be hustled along.
The one weakness is the poor quality big end bearings in the original Toyota HDJ 80/81 12 valve diesel motors, if your not sure they have been changed then get them done, its a couple of hours work and job done. If your not a mechanic, get a decent workshop to do the job for you, you will be surprised how cheap this seemingly big job is, no need to remove the motor.
The diesel engine if looked after will outlast the gasoline version by at least 250,000 miles if not more. The diesel engine does not blow its head gaskets.
There is not a dozen things to cause the inspection failures that happen to the gasoline 80's which are invariably emission related. And of course this ties in nicely with the myriad of electronic components that can fail of which anyone can sideline the gasoline motor.
The diesel is simple and easy to maintain, the timing belt can be changed in 30 minutes, and lasts for 80,000 miles, you even get a reminder on the dashboard, so get yours changed when you get the vehicle and press the reset counter on the dashboard, I recommend writing the mileage on the underside of the hood with a permanent marker, just in case though.
So, in a nutshell you will spend less money repairing a diesel, and a lot less time under the hood trying to fix something....period!
Regards
Dave
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Dave 2000
Not all Land Rovers are useless!
I just remembered comments about fuel economy figures.
My diesel 80 runs easy 27MPG (imperial), l recall 30+ on one trip, as per my last post, drive it steady and let the torque bring you up to speed.
Anyone getting less than say 25 MPG, either has something very wrong with their motor, or has something very wrong with their driving.
Regards
Dave
My diesel 80 runs easy 27MPG (imperial), l recall 30+ on one trip, as per my last post, drive it steady and let the torque bring you up to speed.
Anyone getting less than say 25 MPG, either has something very wrong with their motor, or has something very wrong with their driving.
Regards
Dave
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People who are just getting pumps and injectors rebuilt are the same people who do a hg on a gasser before it fails.
Mine have 145k on them and I have no reason to believe there's an issue. Quick start. No smoke. Expected mpg's and power.
My oil change costs $45 and $70 depending on if it's a filter change or not. That's not much more expensive than a gasser.
Spark plugs? Wires? Nope.
Fuel filter, same interval.
Air filter. Washable.
Trans, axles, tcase... All the same.
I'd be willing to bet my fuel mileage makes up for the oil changes and my extra range is added piece of mind.
These things are ridiculously simple.
When converting to imperial even with my 35s a hwy drive is 26+
Around town i see 16-17 us and 22 us fwy
Same
I agree with you, but what i'm saying is IF the injectors and pump need doing then it's an expense that doesn't exist on a gasser. Your truck is comparatively young - where i'm from most trucks are north of 200,000KM. They should have had their injectors done by then.
Mine has 235k
I said miles. 145k miles.
Gassers have their own large repairs that the diesel doesn't.
What's a hg cost?
Your injectors need doing then.
Based on what evidence other than anecdotal?
Have you monitored my spray pattern? Egts? Do you know my maintenance history? Use of additives?
doughboy
SILVER Star
I get the same, everyone I know that has an HDJ in colorado gets roughly the same.
IF the injections and or pump go out, you can rebuild the injectors or buy new. The IP takes a bit more work, but there are places that can rebuild them or you can do it yourself with a FSM and be good to go. You might have to wait a bit to get parts in, but that's just how it goes owning a vehicle that was never sold in this market. If you're worried about it, just go buy a US market vehicle, move on, and do a HG as PM even though there are zero signs of HG failure.
These are old trucks, they are only going to get older. If you are not resourceful or knowledgeable enough to get parts or figure out how to turn a wrench then don't buy a vehicle that is 20+ years old, hell my 81 is 33 years old. Then yall come here to bitch about how horrible the maintenance is on these trucks but have never owned anything over 5 years old, 60k miles and out of warranty.
Like @Dusten said earlier, just do your normal PM and everything will be fine. Sometime s*** just breaks, it happens.
Here in NZ we have loads of 1HDTs running around. General wisdom here is that they should be done every 100,000KM. Yes there is no factory spec for replacement, but a stuck or bad spray pattern can mean holes in pistons etc.
I don't really care whether you think they need doing or not, but the overall point im trying to make is that its probably prudent to consider during your ownership of a potentially 30plus year old diesel truck that it might require an injector pump and/or injector rebuild.
I'm aware of what it might need.
Might. This is like the 10th diesel I've owned. So this isn't something new for me
mudgudgeon
Resident galah
Many examples of these engines with far more than 200k km on pump and injectors.
How is an oil change more expensive in a diesel? 80 series petrol engine takes basically the same amount of oil, change interval is the same, filters are the same.
Fuel consumption is a lot better with the diesel.
Biggest downside with a diesel 80 is the premium purchase price.
That seems excessive. I've only owned NA diesel engines, but my 3L engine in a Hilux went 500,000km before injector/pump rebuild. The 1HZ in my 80 went 400,000km. In both cases, the work was only done because the injector pump seals had failed and were slowly dripping diesel. No power loss, no issues, and no noticeable difference after doing them, just less stains in parking lots. I know the 1HDT is direct injection and runs at significantly higher pressures, but surely it's not that dramatic a difference?
mudgudgeon
Resident galah
If you use the vehicle somewhere that dirty fuel is a regular occurrence maybe.
In a modern city, this is less of Issue.
Dave 2000
Not all Land Rovers are useless!
Sorry, got to call BS on that quote.
Keeping in mind my occupation, I can tell you I have never had to replace injectors at 100,000 miles on any vehicle diesel or gasoline. Just to bring this discussion into the real world, the HDJ80 engine is not a car engine, it was designed and built for buses and trucks, can you imagine taking trucks off the road every few months for an injector service? Then lets look at diesel cars, that is modern diesel cars, there is one common factor that occurs with diesel injector failure, and it's where you purchase your fuel.
I cannot comment on other countries other than the UK and Spain, where I have run my business as a mechanic. Use cheap fuel and you will get problems, now that is a fact. How can a garage sell fuel so cheaply? It's because the fuel lacks the additives that are needed to lubricate injectors, and keep nozzles clear to maintain a decent spray pattern, it's no coincidence that people who use cheap diesel fuel, find their breakdowns are invariably after a long hot run on a motorway, and it will almost certainly be an injector failure, but note that is modern vehicles, the 80 can run on whatever you can find in third world countries.
Just to add a little credence to that, consider this. If a car breaks down its pushed to side of the road, and a breakdown truck is called, its no big deal. Now if a 50 ton truck breaks down, now that is a problem!
Now look at the garages that sell cheap fuel, they cannot accommodate heavy goods vehicles, other than making special allowances for a delivery tanker, they do not accept large trucks, but why? If a 50 ton truck has say 30 ton of frozen food on board worth say €100,000 and it spoils, then insurance kicks in. They want to see reports on what caused the breakdown, if it is an injector, then they want the others inspected, now we are talking about microscopes here, if it is a one off injector failure and the rest look ok, then the insurance company makes good the losses for the ruined load and covers the cost, paperwork done and dusted. But what happens when they find excessive wear on all the injectors? They want to see fuel receipts, if a certain garage is seen to be being used, what happens when the insurance companies start talking to each other (oh yes they do) seeing similar claims, then there will be fuel testing carried out, you really see where this going?
So, in a nutshell small cheap garages, that offer discounted fuel, and don't have regular usage by trucks try to avoid them. Unless you have an 80 of course, feel free to checkout my long running thread, it lists anything and everything done to it since I have owned it, not an injector or pump related issue mentioned, and last week she past the yearly inspection, emissions as good as when new.
Regards
Dave
Whether you guys like it or not, your injectors and pump might need servicing at some point. That will cost you money. This thread is about providing information about the actual realities of running an HDJ81.
Fact: Diesel engines aren't magically immune to needing maintenance
Fact: Lots of HDJ81s are 30 years (or close to) old, and have done several 100,000km. It's pretty unrealistic to expect any engine done that many KM to not need some more intensive maintenace
Fact: Injector pumps and injectors can need periodic servicing
Fact: Most people don't have a bosch service bench at home so this needs to be done by a pro and costs money.
Fact: CT26 turbos don't magically last forever and they will also need servicing or rebuilds
Fact: 10L of oil every 5000km costs money.
Fact: 1HDTs are not imune to to cracking heads - it does happen - (granted they're not being done as preventative)
All i'm saying is that owners of a 30 year old diesel truck shouldn't expect that they magically are completely immune to needing servicing, and some of this servicing can't be DIYed and might be a little more spendy than people expect.
Fact: Diesel engines aren't magically immune to needing maintenance
Fact: Lots of HDJ81s are 30 years (or close to) old, and have done several 100,000km. It's pretty unrealistic to expect any engine done that many KM to not need some more intensive maintenace
Fact: Injector pumps and injectors can need periodic servicing
Fact: Most people don't have a bosch service bench at home so this needs to be done by a pro and costs money.
Fact: CT26 turbos don't magically last forever and they will also need servicing or rebuilds
Fact: 10L of oil every 5000km costs money.
Fact: 1HDTs are not imune to to cracking heads - it does happen - (granted they're not being done as preventative)
All i'm saying is that owners of a 30 year old diesel truck shouldn't expect that they magically are completely immune to needing servicing, and some of this servicing can't be DIYed and might be a little more spendy than people expect.
