What could be wrong? {Brake!}

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MStars

MStars

10 Year 15 Year
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Threads
29
Messages
150
Location
Dallas, TX
{Brake!} light is now on. I had recently taken off the old rusty bed of the truck and built a simple wooden flat bed. To get rid of the old bed so it was no longer sitting in the back yard I strapped it to the wooden bed along with some other old metal pipes and took it to the scrap yard. By the time I got it strapped in the scrapyard was closed for the day so the weight sat on the back of the truck overnight. The {Brake!} light was on and for whatever reason I thought that it was the parking brake light so I pulled the parking brake handle. Then I tried to take the parking brake off and it was stuck. I twisted it again and got it to go most of the way back in but not all the way. It's still a few inches out and not full recessed into the dash like normal.

Now I have almost no brakes. I have to pump the brake pedal fully out and in a few times and then if I push the pedal completely to the floor the truck will brake. I have almost no brakes at all. It grabs suddenly though, it doesn't gradually stop. Sometimes it doesn't stop at all it just keeps coasting. Wondering if having the weight on the back for a day did it or if the parking brake being stuck where it is could be the cause. Or if there are a host of other things that are going wrong.

Any help appreciated. Mind you are talking to a start up mechanic as I've only repaired a few things (fuel pump assembly, fuel lines, new bed, and a few other simple things).

Thanks guys

Matt
 
Well, the brake light comes on if your fluid in your reservoir drops to a certain level (below MIN). It also comes on when the Parking Break is activated.

I am not sure any other sensors exist but maybe.

Anyway, I am thinking you might have damaged a brake line while attempting to remove the bed. I can only imagine what your brake lines look like considering the condition of the fuel lines (no offense there just working logic).

Have you checked the reservoir level?
 
I will go check it in just a few minutes here. Why would the parking brake handle inside the cab not go back in all the way?

So you're thinking I damaged a brake line, the fluid leaks out and now the reservoir is so low that the sensor kicks on?
 
Having the weight on the vehicle could have caused some issue with the rear proportioning valve... (On the pass. frame rail with a rod going to the rear axle) It tells the brakes how much weight is in the back and adjusts the rear brakes to compensate.... But check the easy things first! :D
 
MStars said:
I will go check it in just a few minutes here. Why would the parking brake handle inside the cab not go back in all the way?

So you're thinking I damaged a brake line, the fluid leaks out and now the reservoir is so low that the sensor kicks on?
Click to expand...

You may have a seized cable due to rust ( : As well, you may have a hole in your brake line. I would think the lack of pressure in the lines would reduce the PB's mechanics to get the cable back to its original position. But I bet it it is a combination of things all tied to rusted parts ( :
 
K, so the reservoir was indeed empty. Got some Dot3 fluid at Napa and filled that up. Next question is, what should my plan of attack be? Replace all the rusty brake lines first and see how that helps? Is that a job that I could do myself or is it very difficult? I'm willing to tackle the projects just don't wanna mess things up as I'm not a master mechanic YET ;) Let me know what you guys would do.

Thanks
 
Check the condition of the rear brake shoes and front brake pads. Worn-out brakes can lead to low fluid. Then I would bleed the brakes to see if that clears up the problem. Also, look for any leaks while you are bleeding the brakes.
 
Although I agree that worn pads/shos can cause a decrease in the reservoir, it does not cause it to be empty.

There is a leak/broken line somewhere and I know I keep coming back to the rust but I believe you have a rusted out brake line-more than likely in the rear of the truck.

Are brake lines difficult to do? Not really and really. To do it cheaply, you need to buy lines in bulk-not factory replacements. And in doing that, you need to know how to cut and flare. In doing that, you need to have the right flare tools.

I am not sure if Non OEM stores (Advanced Auto, O Riley's) sell factory, precut lines. They might which would make life much easier. If they do, then it is merely a matter of removing the old lines, adding the new and bleeding.

I cant remember if you have aleady removed the rear drums and checked the cylinders for leaking. Have you? Might as well in this process i.e. get the truck on stands, all wheels off, rear drums off and start replacing lines/checking brakes. You COULD of course get away with just replacing the broken line/bad cylinder BUT I am of the philosophy that if you are going to do a brake overhaul, then do it up to your budget i.e. do it all if you can so you dont worry about it later.

Let's face it, brakes are pretty important on a vehicle ( :
 
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k so I'm realizing I have to replace all the brake lines. I assume the fittings where they are connected to the drums, the T's and the Master Cylinder are just some type of compression fittings. Is it typical that they will come loose and come off pretty easily? My lines are pretty rusty but overall the truck isn't in bad shape. Does the part where it T's off tend to brake easily? I found the flare tool at Harbour Freight online for $14. How much and where to buy a roll of the brake line I want? Would it be wise and worthwhile to replace a bunch of other brake parts while I'm doing it? If so should I buy them used from someone on here, get toyota new brake parts, or is there another option I'm overlooking. Pardon the amateur nature of my question, just learning as I go.

And ya brakes are very important =). Thats why I'm treading so lightly and not going to touch anything until I have a good plan of action per all your advice.

Thanks guys
 
I feel for you; I've never had to replace brake lines. First thing, correct me someone if I'm wrong, you don't want a "roll" of brake line. Those brake lines are hard tubing. I would use stainless. I would remove the lines, taking notes as to where they go and then I would replicate them with hard tubing of the correct OD and wall thickness. I would use a tubing bender, a flaring tool, and the correct size fittings. I have bent tubing before and I don't think it will be that hard if you get the correct tubing and the correct fittings.

As to your other question, yes, I would replace everything that I even suspected wasn't working properly and/or couldn't be made to work. I would stick to OEM although some of the vendors (e.g. Marlin Crawler) sell Aisin brake parts like the master cylinder that I believe either are or are equivalent to Toyota OEM.

These vehicles are mightly slow but brakes are still pretty important - as you rightly point out!
 
No, you dont buy it in a roll. They come in secions-I think up to 6ft - 8ft long.

BUT first off, find the leak. You need to refill the reservoir and start pumping/looking.
 
Take a pair of dikes, cut the rusty brake line right at the fitting, throw it away. Then soak the fitting in PB Blaster or Kroil, remove it with a 10mm socket, throw them away too.

I've bought the generic brake lines from places like NAPA, but in your case I would just go to Toyota and buy the pre-bent lines. They are all cut to the exact length, pre-bent in the exact shape, and will bolt right on. Bending and flaring brake lines is a PITA, and the factory OEM lines are not that expensive.
 
KLF said:
I've bought the generic brake lines from places like NAPA, but in your case I would just go to Toyota and buy the pre-bent lines. They are all cut to the exact length, pre-bent in the exact shape, and will bolt right on. Bending and flaring brake lines is a PITA, and the factory OEM lines are not that expensive.
Click to expand...

That's the best advice. I didn't know if you could still get the OEM lines....nice to know that they are still available.
 
called toyota and they can get the long brake line that goes along the frame but the guy says the bent ones in the engine bay aren't available. I am still waiting from a call back from Cruiser Dan at American Toyota as maybe he knows something my local parts guy doesn't. I also called a yota junkyard that I knew about and has helped me before and he will send me the brake lines off one he has there as well as a new brake booster and master for like $25. I don't know if my master or booster even need replacing but I figured if it was cheap enough maybe I ought to anyway. Any thoughts? Good price? Do or don't replace with used brake lines? Other option is back to bending them etc but I figured if these were in decent shape no reason I couldn't just use them. Let me know what you'd do guys. Thanks for all the help so far. Makes me confident I can solve the problem with your help.

Matt
 
Updating. Thanks to all of your advice the truck is now running beautifully. In my tiny non heated 7 degree garage in Michigan I managed to remove all the old brake lines. Got myself a tube bender (however rarely used it, my hands proved more exact somehow) and got to work. Replaced every brake line on the truck. Only ended up with one leaky fitting, (the right front small line), talked with Wristy for a sec and got it all squared away. In the process though I ended up with a fuel line leak as it was quite rusty as well. So I chopped a 3 foot rusty chunk out of there and replaced that as well. Just bridged the two metal lines with a few inches of fuel injection rated hose and double clamped em. Bled the brakes, put it all back together and bingo! Now I got brakes, no leaky fuel smell and a happy truck.


Also, while I had the front end jacked up on stands I figured why not look into the power steering. I had been reading about it on here in FAQs and what not and decided my steering was starting to get pretty hard. Also there was a nasty grooooaaaaning noise. Followed all your instructions, replaced the double latte mocha colored fluid that was in there with new bright red ATF, bled the air out etc and BINGO again. Wow it's like a new truck. New brakes, new fuel lines, and the power steering pump is dead silent and I can one hand turn that sucker.

Just wanted to say thanks for all the info you guys provide. I had never once turned a wrench on a vehicle until this truck and I'm feeling pretty good at this point. Learning a lot as I go. Thanks again

Matt
 
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