Weak Points for a 200 Series Offroad (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ikarus
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I'd say your perception is correct. Weight is always better carried between the wheelbase than at the extents. Unfortunately heavy steel bumpers are at the extents. There's a couple other factors
- Weight at the far rear adds weight to the rear axle in two ways - the static weight. But also transfers additional weight that would otherwise be carried on the front axle, onto the rear axle.
- Some info suggests more front weight bias can make for stronger climbing ability
Weight Bias in Climbing Capability?
Why do some builds and vehicles climb better than others? Here's a look at some key parameters outside the usual lockers and suspension discussions. The first half of this video shows some pretty dramatic differences in climbing ability. Pretty dramatic what a little toy can climb relative to...
forum.ih8mud.com
- Thread starter
- #23
Good question. I just like going fast(ish) offroad - I wasn't planning going full send with a LT kit initially. But I was going to with extended coilovers and rear shock relocation. 2.5s with resis up front and 12-14" in the rear. Maybe one of those +2 expedition kits and glass eventually but I wanted to try mid travel first.
Primary goal is (was) hitting desert trails at good speeds - 30-40mph. Nothing crazy. Just thought it would be fun to do that in a supercharged 6 speed Tacoma. I had a slinky setup on my 100 and loved airing down and blasting down trails.
Where I started to go down the failure point rabbit hole with Tacomas was exactly that - what do I want to do now vs what do I want to be able to do in the future?
- Immediate: I added bed stiffeners because people were seeing cracks and damage even with moderate use
- Immediate: Hesitated to add weight up front because people report radiator brace cracks under light offroad use. This one is especially annoying because there is no prevention besides not offroading.
- Long term: People report bent LCA mounts and are unable to align their truck after bottoming out
- Long term: People report bent spindles after jumps, big hits, etc.
- Long term: Not sure how durable a lightweight, non boxed frame is. Some guys box the entire frame when going LT.
All that brought me back to a 200. Why put all that time and effort into a light duty truck with a minivan engine that won't even make stock LC power after a supercharger...
Having said that I think I can still get a lot of that type of enjoyment out of a 200 with a good suspension setup. Might not be as fast and light but the durability would be worth it to me.
I frankly don't get why people want to blast offroad at 60 miles per hour in the open desert. Never mind possible damage to your vehicle or to the environment; think of all the things you'd miss seeing up close:
Gila monsters. Scorpions. Snakes of all varieties and temperaments. Massage parlors.
Gila monsters. Scorpions. Snakes of all varieties and temperaments. Massage parlors.
turbo8
Supporting Vendor
That is what I build mine for.
Look into the Tundra front end swap.
You will probably want 3.0 shocks as these are pretty heavy. If you are going fast in rough terrain, 2.5" ones will over heat.
Duro bumpstops or simailar. I ended up custom mounting King bumps
17" wheels for more sidewall
Strong front skid
Some sort of roost shield for rear shocks.
- Thread starter
- #26
Love it! Exactly what I'm thinking. Do you use spacers in the rear to match the track width of the front? Love the look without a roofrack as well.That is what I build mine for.
Look into the Tundra front end swap.
You will probably want 3.0 shocks as these are pretty heavy. If you are going fast in rough terrain, 2.5" ones will over heat.
Duro bumpstops or simailar. I ended up custom mounting King bumps
17" wheels for more sidewall
Strong front skid
Some sort of roost shield for rear shocks.
A second 200?
- Thread starter
- #28
Maybe. My wife LOVES our '21, so much that I really can't modify it unless I find her a car she likes more - which is impossible. Maybe an LX600 but she doesn't like how those look. You know how it goes.
If I do go with a 200 for an offroad project it'll probably be a little older, higher mileage and pre-scratched
turbo8
Supporting Vendor
Yes, spacers in the rear. Forget if they are 1.25" or 1.5", but no issues. I was about do weld on spindle gussets, but found out Monica has had no issues with the stock spindles. So the gussets are on the shelf.
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It's a hoot to blast through washes and the open desert. I think it also has practical utility as a suspension that handles that kind of work means it'll take washboards with more stability, comfort, and durability to the rest of the rig that won't be trying to rattle apart. There's some really long tracks in open expanses out here and it's useful and fun to run at almost freeway speeds.
Think it's fun in an LC?
Try it in an M1A1 Abrams sometime.
nwfl4runner
GOLD Star
Sounds like you might be considering dipping a toe into long travel. If so I think you’ll find the weak points in the LC are platform issues (wheelbase, rear seat, weight) when compared to the Tacoma. A taco with DMZ SUA and a bed cage will have a rear end ride through the rough stuff you will really not get on the LC.
I think a lot of those issues can be fixed (JDFabs lower mount, spindle gussets, frame boxing) but you’re working with a platform that will be a lot easier in the long run to have some real fun at speed.
- Thread starter
- #34
I appreciate the insight! Ideal garage would be a 200 and a caged LT Taco but if I have to pick one you know which is better for all around duties...
Well, that's the logical and sensible solution. haha. But you know how enthusiasts are, even the guys who rally their raptors are replacing their suspension. I don't mean to turn this into a this vs that thread but I'm sticking with Toyota and looking for that sweet spot between durability/longevity and capability offroad - not planning on wheeling a 200 like a trophy truck but it's fun to think about.
If you've ever ridden across the open desert in a tuned long travel truck you get bit by a bug that never goes away in my experience, and you can get a little of that experience at a much lower cost through good suspension and a thoughtful build.
- Thread starter
- #35
That’s wild!!
Perhaps a tundra then? Several wheelbases to choose from, the 5.7l, and an endless vat of aftermarket parts.
Still would have to deal with the frame?
Still would have to deal with the frame?
I need to updated it but I started a thread with the common replacement items we see on Monica after 1000 miles of racing and subsequently we start seeing on heavily wheeled 200’s after ~100k. In fact many of our top selling 200/570 service kits are those inspired by the replacements Monica needed post-race and we started seeing on customer vehicles. A perfect example would be the front unit hub assemblies. The 100/470 with servicable (and thus greasable and adjustable) wins in that realm. But, we offer a handful of different wheel hub options for the 200/570 and a spare is easiest enough to pack along, particularly if you roll with other 200’s/Tundras/Sequoi’s regularly. The starter on the 200/570 often gives zero warning when it peace’s out, at least the 100/470 click for a year or two
EDIT: the search function seems to be down, I’ll try and find the thread later.
EDIT: the search function seems to be down, I’ll try and find the thread later.
- Thread starter
- #38
Yeah good point. I think the Tundra has a good frame and the engine of course is great. That is one thing I also try to look for in a project, good aftermarket support. Tundra seems to have that.
I need to updated it but I started a thread with the common replacement items we see on Monica after 1000 miles of racing and subsequently we start seeing on heavily wheeled 200’s after ~100k. In fact many of our top selling 200/570 service kits are those inspired by the replacements Monica needed post-race and we started seeing on customer vehicles. A perfect example would be the front unit hub assemblies. The 100/470 with servicable (and thus greasable and adjustable) wins in that realm. But, we offer a handful of different wheel hub options for the 200/570 and a spare is easiest enough to pack along, particularly if you roll with other 200’s/Tundras/Sequoi’s regularly. The starter on the 200/570 often gives zero warning when it peace’s out, at least the 100/470 click for a year or two
EDIT: the search function seems to be down, I’ll try and find the thread later.
That's awesome, I would love to see that!
I still need to go through the Monica thread - but have you reinforced anything? Or is it basically a stock setup?
Search is back up. Here is that thread: I could add another dozen items that we are commonly seeing as of late.
The things that fail and how they changed 100 vs. 200
I was always impressed by the size and girth :D of many 100 Series parts compared to their earlier counterparts. Of course weight also increased along with horsepower/torque so it was a given that things needed to improve. Minor stuff like 29 spline flanges, 32 spline shafts, massive CV's and...
forum.ih8mud.com
You need to come check it out in person next time we have it here at Cruiser Outfitters or up at Canguro HQ (Farmington) when doing race-prep. Uppers, lowers front and rear are stock. Stock mounting at frame side. Stock knuckles/spindles. Stock brake parts. Verify little reinforcement is allowed in class when it comes to suspension. We do have much larger front shocks with reinforced and remote shock mounting both front and rear. Class rules allow this.
- Thread starter
- #40
I would love to, I appreciate the invite! I'll message you. Also I blame Adam for all this, one trip trying to keep up with him and now I just want to go fast. hahaSearch is back up. Here is that thread: I could add another dozen items that we are commonly seeing as of late.
The things that fail and how they changed 100 vs. 200
I was always impressed by the size and girth :D of many 100 Series parts compared to their earlier counterparts. Of course weight also increased along with horsepower/torque so it was a given that things needed to improve. Minor stuff like 29 spline flanges, 32 spline shafts, massive CV's and...
You need to come check it out in person next time we have it here at Cruiser Outfitters or up at Canguro HQ (Farmington) when doing race-prep. Uppers, lowers front and rear are stock. Stock mounting at frame side. Stock knuckles/spindles. Stock brake parts. Verify little reinforcement is allowed in class when it comes to suspension. We do have much larger front shocks with reinforced and remote shock mounting both front and rear. Class rules allow this.
