VVTi Cam Seal Leak -- Cam Phaser O-ring? (1 Viewer)

[nicoguzman]

I am in the midst of getting to the source of an oil leak I am experience down the inside the timing cover, all the way to the oil pan.

A shop recently did a timing belt service and I thought it might be a crank seal. They inspected the work and crank seal was dry. They discovered oil around cam seals and on the inside of the cover that is around the cam phasor. The owner and master tech said that it could be the seals themselves as well as an o-ring inside the phaser. Has anyone encountered that leak from the o-ring?

Also do the pictures look consistent with a cam seal leak? Would it be possible for oil to end up in these locations from another source like oil pump o-ring or a tensioner pulley bolt threads into the oil pump?

 

[RapidRob]

I'm going with the phaser, Doesn't seem like the cam seal would spew oil all the way out to the front/inside of the belt cover.
Either way, It's not very common, maybe someone else has run into it before. Good luck .

 

[xeuxaz]

My 07 experienced a cam seal leak issue that was recently addressed, and it showed symptoms similar to what you're describing. It's really troublesome because the camshafts need to be removed (for vvti motors) to replace the seals.

 

[nicoguzman]

My 07 experienced a cam seal leak issue that was recently addressed, and it showed symptoms similar to what you're describing. It's really troublesome because the camshafts need to be removed (for vvti motors) to replace the seals.

Unfortunately this leak has persisted after a shop replaced those seals. Which led me to believe it could be the cam phaser itself. It is quite troublesome to remove the cams for the process indeed.

I'm going with the phaser, Doesn't seem like the cam seal would spew oil all the way out to the front/inside of the belt cover.
Either way, It's not very common, maybe someone else has run into it before. Good luck .

Thats a good point. Thanks for the luck lol, I will update the post once I get to the bottom of it.

 

[2001LC]

Seems you held back some info, like camshafts seal replaced after T-belt service, during a second time in. Is there anything else we should know?

Is this order of events?

1. No leaks, front of engine document as dry before t-belt service.
2. T-belt service with crank seal. No camshaft seals requested to be replaced or replaced, during this service.
3. leaks found at front of engine, at and below head, after TB service and driving.
4. Pulled apart front of engine (T-belt) to inspect why leaking. No oil in camshaft/belt covers near outside ends (as seen in above pic). Replaced both camshaft seals.
5. Leaks found again at front of engine on and below heads, after cam seals R&R and driving.
6. Pulled covers, found oil in covers near outer inside end.

It's not likely the VVT "Camshaft Timing Tube Assembly" (AKA: CTTA, VVT actuator, phaser) leaked, after just doing a T-belt service. Unless, the plug or bolt in end of CCTA was loosened. Which has a seal washer behind plug. Or unless someone tried pulling off the actuator from CTTA, by removing the 4 star head bolts. Which would then require replacement of CTTA.

I'd like to see detailed pictures of actuator. I'd be looking for two things. One, oil trial from leak. Two, any wrench marks on center plug or bolt or the other 4 bolts. I do see two teeth mark and a soring on actuator, in your last pic above. Teeth marks, look to be a large monkey wrench's teeth marks. Possible to turn camshaft, to align belt. But if they're from holding to loosen any CTTA bolt, that would be a bad sign. As there is no reason to remove any of those bolts.

It's more likely the issues was with assembly. Wherein; R&R camshaft, placement of FIPG & amount, tightening pattern and torque. Are all very technical. But this would only explain leak after cam seals R&R. It does not explain, leak starting just after T-belt service. So was a leak at cam seals before any service, or one created due to something done during first service.

Interesting factory use gray FIPG. Current Toyota FIPG 103 (oil) is black. Hum!

 

[nicoguzman]

Sorry for the slightly confusing order of events. This is the timeline:

-Purchased truck March of 2023, and immediately took to Japanese Motor Works in Athens, GA for a timing belt service. My mistake was not thoroughly cleaning the engine bay to assess what exactly might have been going on. I was in rush to get the service done as it was due. The timing belt job was done with the Aisin TKT-021 kit. Cam seals were not replaced at this time.

-A few months later I noticed the oil leak from the bottom of the timing cover and assumed it was the crank seal. I took it back for inspection and they stated it was coming from the cam seals / cam phasers area. They stated they did not notice the leak during the timing belt service, otherwise they would have notified me. I am suspicious of their claim as I find it hard to believe the leak occurred only months after they were already in there. Again I should have done a more thorough assessment before doing anything. Their quote to replace the seals was $3000 so I looked for alternatives.

-In October of 2023 I had CarTech Automotive in Monroe, GA replace the cam seals. The owner is a Toyota Master Tech and I had been referred by another Toyota enthusiast. They replaced the cam seals, valve cover gaskets, and was told they resealed the half moons as well.

-The photos above are from this week when Japanese Motor Works disassembled for diagnosis. The truck has been put back together so I cannot get further photos of the actuator. I am going to be taking the truck back to the shop which replaced the cam seals for them to hopefully correct the issue under their warranty, however I am having reservations regarding their ability. I am inclined to agree with your assessment that the error was during installation etc. I have ordered new timing assemblies, cam seals, and plugs and washers incase they were damaged on the first installation.

 

[nicoguzman]

It's more likely the issues was with assembly. Wherein; R&R camshaft, placement of FIPG & amount, tightening pattern and torque. Are all very technical. But this would only explain leak after cam seals R&R. It does not explain, leak starting just after T-belt service. So was a leak at cam seals before any service, or one created due to something done during first service.

To reiterate, I agree with your assumption. There was a leak before any service, the leak was not mentioned nor addressed during the T-belt service, and then the shop which was tasked with the seal replacement did an obviously inadequate job.

 

[2001LC]

It's possible. Current oil leaking from cam seal(s) and or camshafts front bearing cap(s) FIPG seal. Has traveled onto back side of CTTA (sprocket). Then slung out onto T-belt covers.

I do see some "old" oil leak signs. On the alternator and a little on the vane pump. When washing our engines. Some area are hard to clean. Vane pump is mostly clean, expect a pocket. This "pocket" would have been hard to clean/power wash. The area on the alternator, also very hard to power washer and not advisable too.

These oily areas are old oil, that attracted sand/dust. So oil did came from somewhere at some time in history. In a high mileage engine some should be expected. It also depends on where driven, as to how much sand/dust. These leaks could have been from other than cams, or earlier cam leaks/weeps. Then engine washed, removing most signs. Known detail likes mileage and service history. Also seeing PS hoses, etc., can give us clues.

Why then leak or leak much more after T-belt service, and tech not mention seeing? Oil changes!

 

[nicoguzman]

I would assume the old deposits on the vane pump are from general road grime and grit, I have not noticed oil leaking form the cam area down on to the pump. Only appears at the bottom of the timing cover. I will monitor closely, since I have recently degreased the entire engine bay and underside.

The feed hose from the PS res to vane pump was leaking at the pump, and dripping on the alternator. The factory original hoses have been replaced with new OEM (thanks in large part to your threads) and area has been degreased and washed. This was done recently while I tried to eliminate other leaks to determine the root cause of the oil leak. No leaks from power steering lines, I had noticed some seeping from the steering rack boots, but the fresh fluid seems to have solved that issue.

I purchased the truck from the 2nd owner, who purchased it certified pre-owned from a Toyota dealer in 2010. It has documented oil changes every 5K since 67,000 miles. Currently has 215k. The oil changes were done almost exclusively at the dealer, I wonder - do they use high mileage oil? I changed the oil after the timing belt service with the standard Mobil 1, not high mileage. Perhaps that could have contributed?

 

[nicoguzman]

Updating this thread.

Had ACC Garage in Atlanta diagnose and do the work. Turned out to be both the oil pump o-ring as well as cam seals leaking.

I am thinking it was the oil pump oring all along, was misdiagnosed as cam seals and the subsequent job actually caused the leak.

 

[2001LC]

Glade it was sorted out.