Vortec Cooling Woes, radiator advice needed

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EasternYeti

EasternYeti

10 Year
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Massachusetts
Looking for some suggestions here as I'm at the end of my rope and flat out fed up with Griffin Thermal Products

I've had (3) of these units fail in the past two years. The unit I have is as seen below

Griffin Performance Fit Radiator Combos CU-00009-LS

Summit warrantied the last one 2 months ago, and now The radiator is failing again!!!!

I feel stupid because I can't figure out why these radiators won't hold up, they seem to be failing at the same places, where the cooling tubes meet the support. The epoxy welds just give up. It's very cold where I live and so far it's only in the winter that i seem to encounter the problems with the aluminum units.

Today I'm going to try to have summit exchange the unit for this from "be-cool" with similar dimensions, hoping that it's of better quality than the Griffin

Be Cool Bone Yard LS Swap Radiators 35222

For those of you running a vortec with an electric fan setup, which radiators are you using???

And for those of you that don't have a vortec, is there a radiator that's simply just overbuilt that i can buy and never worry about again?
 
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Are you running a sacrificial anode?
 
i have a ron davis radiator in mine cooling a 6.2 litre LS3. I hooked up an inline thermo-switch [i hope this what you call it] in the top radiator hose, spal wiring kit and twin fans. i went ahead and did the simple wiring to turn on both fans when the a/c button is pushed.

so far, very happy with it. Initially i got some weeping when it was cold here [rarely gets below 10 deg F], but tightening some clamps did the trick.
 
I use Griffin radiators and have only had one issue to date and it was a pin hole in a weld. I have read similar stories to what you are speaking to, core to tank coming apart.

I am curious why you did not get the direct fit radiator for the FJ62. It allows for re using the lower and upper rubber vibration isolators. Did you use vibration isolators on your install?

If switching brands, who can blame you, I'd go with Ron Davis. Also a direct fit available.
 
NCFJ said:
I use Griffin radiators and have only had one issue to date and it was a pin hole in a weld. I have read similar stories to what you are speaking to, core to tank coming apart.

I am curious why you did not get the direct fit radiator for the FJ62. It allows for re using the lower and upper rubber vibration isolators. Did you use vibration isolators on your install?

If switching brands, who can blame you, I'd go with Ron Davis. Also a direct fit available.
Click to expand...

Previous Owner built a custom drop in setup with isolators to accommodate the larger Griffin for the Vortec. Unfortunately the original hardware and mounting spots are gone so I'm adapting as I go.

I'm going with Be-cool only because it's as close as I can get to the griffin setup and summit should warranty swap it. If they don't, I will be buying a Ron Davis.

On my way to work this morning the hole grew and now I'm in a real bind
 
Update: Summit didn't fuss about the swap, and gladly sent the be-cool unit with a pre-paid fedex return for the POS

Looking further, a recent review of the Griffin Unit confirmed that my issue is not isolated

"I read lots of mixed reviews of these radiators after doing many internet searches and decided to take a chance. Total waste of money. The core to tank seam on the drivers side started leaking within 2 months of installing it and now the passenger side has started leaking even worse"

So if anyone wants to learn from a fool let me be your example

+1 for summits customer service yet again
 
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I've used two Ron Davis in LS swaps so far.I use the 28" overall width LS unit with the built in fans and shroud. Ron Davis stuffs in two 14" Spals
where Griffin and the other companies I called were using 12's in the 26~28" radiators. In a phone conversation, Griffin told me the 12's would not draw enough in that radiator size to guarantee cooling an LS in a slow trail crawling (or stop and go traffic) in 100+degrees. This is important to Az drivers. Ron Davis is built in Glendale AZ and so a lot of testing is done in hot weather. They assured the 14's would be more than adequate.
I usually run two thermal switches, a 165ish on for one fan and a second 210ish deg on for the second fan. I have to throw cardboard across the radiator to get the second to spool up to test the fan circuit and it's still difficult. The last customer I installed one in didn't hear it turn on until about six months after he started driving it. He's in Phoenix. It was mid August and he was climbing a long 6% grade leaving Phx heading north. He said it turned on for just about five minutes then shut off and he hasn't heard it since
 
lcwizard said:
I've used two Ron Davis in LS swaps so far.I use the 28" overall width LS unit with the built in fans and shroud. Ron Davis stuffs in two 14" Spals
where Griffin and the other companies I called were using 12's in the 26~28" radiators. In a phone conversation, Griffin told me the 12's would not draw enough in that radiator size to guarantee cooling an LS in a slow trail crawling (or stop and go traffic) in 100+degrees. This is important to Az drivers. Ron Davis is built in Glendale AZ and so a lot of testing is done in hot weather. They assured the 14's would be more than adequate.
I usually run two thermal switches, a 165ish on for one fan and a second 210ish deg on for the second fan. I have to throw cardboard across the radiator to get the second to spool up to test the fan circuit and it's still difficult. The last customer I installed one in didn't hear it turn on until about six months after he started driving it. He's in Phoenix. It was mid August and he was climbing a long 6% grade leaving Phx heading north. He said it turned on for just about five minutes then shut off and he hasn't heard it since
Click to expand...

I have my fans setup with almost identical settings, granted mine are the 12's.

The only time my second fan kicked on was this morning, when the coolant drained out in the traffic. Granted I do live in New England, we don't see the same heat as you guys in AZ. Hoping the New be-cool unit holds up.

God willing, I won't have to do this a 5th time, but if I do, it'll be Ron Davis
 
I used a Griffin cross-flow with my Vortec install about 6 years ago and haven't had an issue, and I've beat on the truck pretty good. I was careful to support it the full length of the core with thick rubber. Perhaps part of your issue is the way it's mounted. Just a thought.

I've had a Ron Davis aluminum radiator in one of my other 40s for maybe 15 years and no issues there either.
 
here is your solution.....4 core brass tank stock type replacement radiator. I use one on my 5.7 truck and its been the cats @$$.

What type vortec.... in v8s vortecs run from 5.7 up through the 6.0 engine.

http://www.autozone.com/cooling-hea.../land-cruiser/1986/6-cylinders-f-4-2l-2bl-ohv

may need to check if this has the cooler for the auto transmission (if you need that) I have this radiator in my FJ60 with 5.7 and manual trans and have been running it for some time.

mechanical GM OEM fan clutch, Mechanical GM OEM FAN clutch (1999 5.7 version in my case). Custom radiator shroud. "GOOD".

Tried other things...this works. I also modified the water necks on the radiator to work (1) on top with a GM OEM radiator hose for a 1999 SUV pickup with 5.7 (2) at the bottom I moved the water neck to the far side of the tank Passenger side) to allow for better clearance of the fan and shroud in relationship to the lower radiator hose.

This works on my 5.7.... on the new vortecs...you need a steam vent setup also. I had a ron davis for about a year or so and then the radiator cracked....was done with them at that point. No issues so far with the above noted radiator ( I bought another on for a spare in case the zombies invade :) anyway this has been my good V8 cooling solution.

OLD SCHOOL GM OEM type fan clutch works good in my view....get the fan shroud right and you are golden.
 
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Elbert said:
here is your solution.....4 core brass tank stock type replacement radiator. I use one on my 5.7 truck and its been the cats @$$.

What type vortec.... in v8s vortecs run from 5.7 up through the 6.0 engine.

http://www.autozone.com/cooling-hea.../land-cruiser/1986/6-cylinders-f-4-2l-2bl-ohv
OLD SCHOOL GM OEM type fan clutch works good in my view....get the fan shroud right and you are golden.
Click to expand...

Usually , because the inlet and outlet on the GEN 3 motors are both on the passenger side, the LS specific radiators are a dual pass with both outlets on one side to simplify hose selection. Other wise you have to run a funky hose. There are a couple considerations to weigh with a custom radiator.
You can go electric fans but a really good setup with a really good integrated shroud will add 400~600.00 dollars. If you have to hire a fab guy to do a premium quality shroud, buy a fan, clutch, etc the cost won't be that much different. The pro's and cons can go back and forth forever.
I installed the last electric setup in a 40 with the vette LS1. The vette motor has no hub on the water pump pulley for a fan so the decision was
made for me. The worst thing I see is people buying cheap electric fans and tossing the mechanical fan. A 19" mechanical can pull over 4500
cfm, depending which unit, and 3000 at idle. I see a lot of numbers thrown out by the electric fan companies but those number have to be taken with a grain of salt. OEM fans are probably more reliable than aftermarket because the big auto builders have done the research. Spal is one aftermarket I trust because I've witnessed the current draw first hand. If you can run a 3000 cfm fan on a 15amp fuse it's not a 3000 cfm fan.
Be prepared to sacrifice 25~30amps per fan under load. A 14" Spal is about 1500~1800 CFM and will require 25amps. You'll need two with an effective shroud for a hi output V8, three with an ineffective shroud. If you don't have the electrical system to handle dedicating a possible 50 amps to cooling you are probably better doing mechanical. Most V-8s can dedicate the 5 HP required to cooling without you feeling it from the drivers seat.
 
I had a aluminum radiator fail. Never did find out why. I'm on my second.

A sacrificial anode is a piece of metal that will corrode from electricity before the aluminum does. I've heard conflicting reports on if its necessary and when it's necessary. I currently don't have one and would love to learn more about how to put on in - just to be safe.

Aluminum as two problems, first it can corrode from electrolysis, second, it will rot if not kept wet and the type of coollant used matters. Mine ended up sitting dry for long periods and I assume that's what ruined it, but I don't know for sure.
 
lcwizard said:
Usually , because the inlet and outlet on the GEN 3 motors are both on the passenger side, the LS specific radiators are a dual pass with both outlets on one side to simplify hose selection. Other wise you have to run a funky hose. There are a couple considerations to weigh with a custom radiator.
You can go electric fans but a really good setup with a really good integrated shroud will add 400~600.00 dollars. If you have to hire a fab guy to do a premium quality shroud, buy a fan, clutch, etc the cost won't be that much different. The pro's and cons can go back and forth forever.
I installed the last electric setup in a 40 with the vette LS1. The vette motor has no hub on the water pump pulley for a fan so the decision was
made for me. The worst thing I see is people buying cheap electric fans and tossing the mechanical fan. A 19" mechanical can pull over 4500
cfm, depending which unit, and 3000 at idle. I see a lot of numbers thrown out by the electric fan companies but those number have to be taken with a grain of salt. OEM fans are probably more reliable than aftermarket because the big auto builders have done the research. Spal is one aftermarket I trust because I've witnessed the current draw first hand. If you can run a 3000 cfm fan on a 15amp fuse it's not a 3000 cfm fan.
Be prepared to sacrifice 25~30amps per fan under load. A 14" Spal is about 1500~1800 CFM and will require 25amps. You'll need two with an effective shroud for a hi output V8, three with an ineffective shroud. If you don't have the electrical system to handle dedicating a possible 50 amps to cooling you are probably better doing mechanical. Most V-8s can dedicate the 5 HP required to cooling without you feeling it from the drivers seat.
Click to expand...

I'm a fan of the mechanical GM OEM style fan clutches and related fans (GM). I like SPAL electric fans..too and I still have some laying around, but i'm sold on the gm fan clutch setup.. I do have a small pusher fan on the front of my current setup, its there just since I had some room and in case needed. I too don't believe some of the marketing amp load numbers thrown out by some in the electric fan biz. To me...for the fan to have sufficient power (electric) its going to pull some amps and the fan it generally going to sound like a electric drill on steroids on high. The beauty to me is that the old school fan clutch setup works well, requires no crazy wiring or amp loads, and it works automatically...one of the critical elements is a good fan shroud in my view...one that allows the fan to pull air across and through the entire radiator core. Anyway I've tryed some other solutions and the fan clutch setup appears to me as the best solution for 4wd.

I would like to replicate the cooling components from a 3/4 ton GM pickup into the 60, but I don't want to chop on the 60...but I think the additional radiator surface area of a radiator like the ones used in the 3/4 trucks would make the cooling a total non issue. I noticed the GM 3/4 ton trucks continue to run fan clutch setups. I've forgotten the width differences but the gm pickup 3/4 ton pickup radiiator is a good bit wider than a 60 stock radiator and of course the corresponding grill area on the pickkup is wider too.

My observation is that you can exceed the capacity of some of those electric fans...(cooling capacity)....I do think the 4wds do place an extra burden on the cooling capacity, plus add ac to the mix and narrow grill opening.
 
Elbert said:
I'm a fan of the mechanical GM OEM style fan clutches and related fans (GM). I like SPAL electric fans..too and I still have some laying around, but i'm sold on the gm fan clutch setup.. I do have a small pusher fan on the front of my current setup, its there just since I had some room and in case needed. I too don't believe some of the marketing amp load numbers thrown out by some in the electric fan biz. To me...for the fan to have sufficient power (electric) its going to pull some amps and the fan it generally going to sound like a electric drill on steroids on high. The beauty to me is that the old school fan clutch setup works well, requires no crazy wiring or amp loads, and it works automatically...one of the critical elements is a good fan shroud in my view...one that allows the fan to pull air across and through the entire radiator core. Anyway I've tryed some other solutions and the fan clutch setup appears to me as the best solution for 4wd.

I would like to replicate the cooling components from a 3/4 ton GM pickup into the 60, but I don't want to chop on the 60...but I think the additional radiator surface area of a radiator like the ones used in the 3/4 trucks would make the cooling a total non issue. I noticed the GM 3/4 ton trucks continue to run fan clutch setups. I've forgotten the width differences but the gm pickup 3/4 ton pickup radiiator is a good bit wider than a 60 stock radiator and of course the corresponding grill area on the pickkup is wider too.

My observation is that you can exceed the capacity of some of those electric fans...(cooling capacity)....I do think the 4wds do place an extra burden on the cooling capacity, plus add ac to the mix and narrow grill opening.
Click to expand...

I agree on the mechanical fans. The OEM's are the best designs vs the aftermarket flex fans and such. Almost every time I see a stock
clutch fan setup isn't working well it can be traced to the shroud design. If someone has zero access to a shroud builder they might consider
an electric setup like the Ron Davis whose shroud works quite well. I've seen so many shrouds that do more harm than good I can't count.
A fan set too deep in the shroud or too shallow can impede flow or totally negate it. There is lots of info online about how to build shrouds
that work. Some principles need to be followed. There's no need anymore, with the internet, to do the old school trial and error method of the 70's and 80's but for some reason there's still a lot of that going around. For me, I use electrics where motor were designed around them such as with the LS1 vette motor which has no provision outside of changing all the front components to truck parts. I have seen a few applications
where there was no room for a fan clutch setup or in buggies with remote radiators. In general , if the truck will support a mechanical, it's my first choice. If I have to go electric I don't skimp on the fans. Set aside 5~600.00 and buy yourself a beer if you have anything left
 
EasternYeti said:
Looking for some suggestions here as I'm at the end of my rope and flat out fed up with Griffin Thermal Products

I've had (3) of these units fail in the past two years. The unit I have is as seen below

Griffin Performance Fit Radiator Combos CU-00009-LS

Summit warrantied the last one 2 months ago, and now The radiator is failing again!!!!

I feel stupid because I can't figure out why these radiators won't hold up, they seem to be failing at the same places, where the cooling tubes meet the support. The epoxy welds just give up. It's very cold where I live and so far it's only in the winter that i seem to encounter the problems with the aluminum units.

Today I'm going to try to have summit exchange the unit for this from "be-cool" with similar dimensions, hoping that it's of better quality than the Griffin

Be Cool Bone Yard LS Swap Radiators 35222

For those of you running a vortec with an electric fan setup, which radiators are you using???

And for those of you that don't have a vortec, is there a radiator that's simply just overbuilt that i can buy and never worry about again?
Click to expand...

After a boat load of consideration and research I decided to have a brass radiator made for my swap project. My take on aluminum and the pre made radiator was that the quality was not going to work for me.
U.S. Radiator | The Difference Is In The Tooling has some model specific units but since I am close I dropped by and we talked about how the vehicle was to be used and they took measurements.
I admit the mounts and shroud are custom but I will never worry about cooling. The radiator cost about $700 but worth every penny since I was able to make the inlet/outlet size, location and the steam port where I wanted.
David

IMG_3655.webp
 
This is a great wealth of knowledge, and the vast array of setups and their specific intricacies is invaluable.

I wil retrieve my be-cool unit from summit today, to install tomorrow. If this unit fails I will Have no choice left but to go down one of the paths mentioned here, may it be a mechanical fan clutch, or a Ron Davis/US Radiator Route. This was the most cost effective solution for now (thanks summit for not sqwaking about three free radiators)

I'm pretty disappointed that the Griffin unit was trash, but I'm trying to believe that not "all" aluminum units are. After the shoddy quality I've experienced from autozone I can say I'll never put one of their radiators in my rig, been down that road way too many times before.

I'll post up some pictures of the new unit and and the griffin tomorrow afternoon. I daily drive my rig and it needs to be up and running for next week
 
Grumpyhead12 said:
After a boat load of consideration and research I decided to have a brass radiator made for my swap project. My take on aluminum and the pre made radiator was that the quality was not going to work for me.
U.S. Radiator | The Difference Is In The Tooling has some model specific units but since I am close I dropped by and we talked about how the vehicle was to be used and they took measurements.
I admit the mounts and shroud are custom but I will never worry about cooling. The radiator cost about $700 but worth every penny since I was able to make the inlet/outlet size, location and the steam port where I wanted.
David

View attachment 1403128
Click to expand...


Good looking fan shroud and radiator appears to be a thick core and I see it has side tanks as opposed to top and bottom tanks...which is just an observation. Fan shrouds are critical as noted...I'm no superwhiz or fab guy...but my general observations are...a good fan shroud captures the entire radiator core (in that if funnels air flow across the entire core. 2nd a good shroud has room at the rear of the radiator to allow easy air flow through the entire core....and then 3rd...a good shroud captures the cooling fan well.

The other aggravating factor on engine swaps is how close the engine may sit to the radiator core, which may limit the ability to use a good design or account for things the way you might want to. I like the fan shroud...looks good. If i were others out there I would try and replicate a fan shroud like you have posted, or also I've noticed some good pics of some enigne swaps on the slee web site where there a couple of pics I saw that some some reasonable detail of the engine compartment and radiator. I'm sure there may be some other pics out there too.

My friend built the radiator shroud I have and its similar to what you've posted, but we had some space constraints since on my truck the engine sits close to the radiator core. One thing I did learn...the GM V-8 that have the large single nut fan clutch which includes some 5.7's and later 5.3 and 6.0's... that this fan clutch will screw down on the water pump pulley a good way and provide some space to use it....its a little deceptive...as to how little room it takes in comparison to the older style GM OEM fan clutches.

I like the "new" style GM Fans and Fan cluthes....they work well....your setup looks good,
 
EasternYeti said:
Update: Summit didn't fuss about the swap, and gladly sent the be-cool unit with a pre-paid fedex return for the POS

Looking further, a recent review of the Griffin Unit confirmed that my issue is not isolated

"I read lots of mixed reviews of these radiators after doing many internet searches and decided to take a chance. Total waste of money. The core to tank seam on the drivers side started leaking within 2 months of installing it and now the passenger side has started leaking even worse"
Click to expand...

In the process of a 5.3 swap and was reading the same reviews about the Griffin radiators so I decided to go with a C&R radiator:
C&R Racing Universal Radiators 802-26191

Funny thing is I had a Griffin radiator in my 1st gen Toyota pickup with a 4.3 for almost 10 years and never had a single issue with it. Maybe they are just getting cheaper in their build quality.
 
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