URE pricing

[erymer]

Shared from uwharrie OHV Family on Facebook.

Just released, edited for easy reading. Pm if you want the full version. Rob

U.S. F. S. Proposes Recreation Fee Changes

Troy, NC, August 11, 2017 - The U.S. Forest Service is proposing to change recreation fees at several sites on the Uwharrie National Forest and the public is invited to provide input to proposed fees changes for 46 days beginning on August 11, 2017 and ending on September 25, 2017.

The goal of these proposed changes are to establish a consistent pricing for developed recreation sites for the National Forests in North Carolina. In addition many day use sites will now accept the suite of "America the Beautiful, the National Parks and Federal Recreational passes.

These fee changes are only proposed. After public comment is received, the Forest will assess the comments and concerns and then present the fee proposals to the Southern Region Recreation Resource Advisory Committee (RRAC) in Fall 2017. This committee will provide recommendations on the fee proposals and the Regional Forester will make a decision on the proposals. The Recreation RAC is a citizen's advisory committee that represents a broad array of recreation interests.

Collections from fees stay at the local level and would be used to address future and backlog maintenance needs. Increased fee collections would also help to expand recreation opportunities by offsetting the costs of improving existing trail routes and trailheads.

The Federal Lands Recreation Enhancement Act of 2004 allows the Forest Service to keep 80-95 percent of fees collected to operate, maintain, and improve the recreation sites.

The proposed fee changes are:

Campgrounds

Badin Lake - increase from $12 to $20/single site per night, and $24 to $40/double site per night

Arrowhead Point and Canebrake Horse Camp - increase from $18 to $20/single site per night, and $36 to $40/double site per night.

Badin Lake Group Camp - increase from $40 to $75/site per night, 50 person sites.

West Morris Mountain - increase from $5 to $10/single site per night, and $10 to $20/double site per night

Flintlock Valley Shooting Range - increase $3 to $10/shooter per day, and $30 annual to $60 annual

 

[erymer]

Key word here is "proposed". I think what jumps out at me most is the almost doubled pricing for Group Camp. I don't mind an increase but doubling the cost while losing usable space of the facility seems a bit much. Frankly, I would rather them up the trail pass cost over this. Doubling the trail pass from $5 to $10 daily and $30 to $60 yearly really isn't that much and would generate far greater revenue.

We go to group camp often for weekend getaways but If I am dropping $150 for two night, I think I might look elsewhere.

@fourtrax or any others with more info on this?

 

[GLTHFJ60]

IMHO the pricing for activities in Uwharrie was way too cheap to begin with. It's still dramatically cheaper for comparable sites we've looked at in the region.

 

[erymer]

As far as activites I could not agree more. The range and trail pass pricing is very cheap compared to other places.

 

[SeanLX]

But most other places are private for profit businesses. Public places are suppose to be cheaper.

Small increases make sense because of inflation. Double or tripple the price is messed up.

 

[JohnVee]

1. Large price increases can bring a switch to clients of a higher class(for various reasons).
2. Large price increases can cause an entitlement effect resulting in current clients giving less respect to the services and offerings because they feel the new, higher prices justify their damage and lack of care.

Since we're talking about camping at URE, I'm gonna guess #2, but maybe people will just accept that higher prices aren't out of line with other places.

 

[little_joe]

I predict a lot more people on the trails without permits, especially since enforcement is virtually nil. And with that, I'd expect things to get even worse w/r/t damage, trash, st00pidity.

I personally am fine if they raise prices (tax cuts and slashed budgets FTW!). In fact, I'd prefer they set a limit on the number of permits issued per day per class, then actually enforce the rules and laws. And add a short training/video like the NPS does for OBX. And all of the trail signs should be made of unicorn hide too!

 

[fourtrax]

enforcement is not nil joe. Officer Foote is on t he trail and writing tickets, he finally got a trail vehicle. again these are proposals and they are seeking input from the community. there have been budget cut and what not, and the prices haven't increased in awhile. they have had some damage at group camp, and some issues with the larger groups. so maybe the high fee will be used to offset the cost of dealing with larger groups. but, it is a bit of a jump in price.

 

[krzyabncanuck]

From being out West and seeing the prices here to camp Uwharrie is still cheaper. They pay 14 a night here just for water and a toilet.

 

[onemanarmy]

consistent pricing?---just because other places are more expensive doens't mean every place has to be.

what EXACTLY will the increased fees be used for? What is the backlog and how much are the proposed costs of that? We all know how gov't likes to take and then not follow through.

Yes, this is a tax payer funded area, prices should stay low to allow all easy and affordable access. No opportunities to get more tax payer money? I know this has been tried over the years. what is 'way to cheap' @GLTHFJ60 ? I'm sure the Feds would gladly take an extra donation from you in the name of Uwharrie OHV system and then squander it on another useless pork project.

The area has been operating on the current fee system for many years, and seems to be doing ok, along with the help of volunteers, why the (almost double or more ) increase?

Inflation isn't that high.

It appears that they proposed ludicrous increases, so as to afford them room to back off a bit and give the illusion that 'they' will be working with us. Unfortunately that seems to often work on the sheeple.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Have any of you actually looked into camping at other places around Uwharrie? Do you know what the comparable prices are around there?

The prices we've gotten for hosting a LR or CRR sized-event close to Uwharrie hundreds of dollars more per night than group camp. Despite the proposed increases, Uwharrie camping sites are still cheaper than anything else around there.


I don't know what everyone is complaining about. Everyone says there's not enough enforcement. Everyone says there needs to be more this or that done by the USFS to make the trails better, or longer, or more of them, or whatever. Where does the money come from to pay for enforcement, or to put up bridges, or do large-scale maintenance projects that can't be covered by workdays? Donations only go so far.


I'd gladly pay the new proposed rates. They're still reasonable IMHO.

 

[izzyandsue]

Didn't ONSC provided funds to the LEO side-by-side purchase campaign? I may be remembering it wrong. But like anything else in this country, sheet costs money. And money is needed to fund projects, pay for LEOs, etc. I support higher fees for good use. The funds will help preserve Uwharrie OPEN, which is a delicate site due to the ancient artifacts sites throughout.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Good question.

Yes, ONSC made a donation of $1000 to FOU with proceeds from LR2016, that was earmarked for the LEO project. This was discussed at the X-Mas party, but the FOU portion of the LEO project was axed and money was given back. We received the $1000 back, then through club vote, re-donated the $1000 to the FOU for "general use".

 

[onemanarmy]

Have any of you actually looked into camping at other places around Uwharrie? Do you know what the comparable prices are around there?

The prices we've gotten for hosting a LR or CRR sized-event close to Uwharrie hundreds of dollars more per night than group camp. Despite the proposed increases, Uwharrie camping sites are still cheaper than anything else around there.


I don't know what everyone is complaining about. Everyone says there's not enough enforcement. Everyone says there needs to be more this or that done by the USFS to make the trails better, or longer, or more of them, or whatever. Where does the money come from to pay for enforcement, or to put up bridges, or do large-scale maintenance projects that can't be covered by workdays? Donations only go so far.


I'd gladly pay the new proposed rates. They're still reasonable IMHO.

Just asking...

when looking at other venues for large gatherings around UNF, were they private or Federally owned?

Regardless, it's a hard pill to swallow for ANY tax/fee increase from the government, when every single day we are slapped in the face with gross mismanagement of the already trillions of tax dollars that are collected from people that choose to go to work everyday.

Yes, I enjoy UNF and glad it's there, and I guess I will pay to play if the fees are increased, but increased fees/taxes should always be the LAST resort.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Private. To my knowledge, there aren't any other federally owned large gathering sites around UNF. If you know of one, let me know.

 

[little_joe]

I don't know what everyone is complaining about. Everyone says there's not enough enforcement. Everyone says there needs to be more this or that done by the USFS to make the trails better, or longer, or more of them, or whatever. Where does the money come from to pay for enforcement, or to put up bridges, or do large-scale maintenance projects that can't be covered by workdays? Donations only go so far.


I'd gladly pay the new proposed rates. They're still reasonable IMHO.

This. Plus, the money is going directly to Uwharrie National Forest, not the general USFS bucket to get appropriated elsewhere. IMHO, like NPS/OBX, this is a great model.

People don't want to pay taxes, they don't want to pay fees - pull your head out of your ass. Somehow this has to be funded, or it'll all go away...

 

[lt1fire]

Slashed budget by the feds to next to nothing will do this. Haven't seen prices jump around here but i'm thinking it might happen soon.


I'd be fine with the increases, 100% increase is a lot yeah, but the money "hopefully" is being well spent to put toward the forest. I do agree though that raising the trail pass would be beter especially if that increase was specifically earmarked for trail projects/maintenance.

Camping in NC is generally expensive as is because of the lack of public campsites and more private land. Still money that in my mind will help preserve the land.

 

[lt1fire]

And to back Johnny up on the cost of other places, before LR became Logan's Run it was orginally envisioned as Cruisin the Carolinas and was going to take place at a different place in north or south carolina each year. When in the initial planning stages I looked at many campsites at the start of 2011 and couldn't find anything that was close to the Uwharrie Group camp in terms of amenities and size for that price.

 

[onemanarmy]

Yes, because our tax dollars subsidize it.

I don't understand the comparison of UNF to private campgrounds.

The OBX permit system is not a great model. The beaches were open to the public and had NPS patrolling since the beach became a national park. Then, the Feds moved money from that to other issues under some guise, and then enacted a use tax. All that did was build new buildings, hire people to run them and maintain them, put up signs, produce vids to tell you to not be an idiot while out on the beach. The beach experience is the exact same. You get nothing for your 50/150 dollars except less beach to drive on and a curfew. The salaries of the office staff and the construction and maintenance of those permit buildings is unnecessary and not cheap. All they needed was to hire more enforcement, not build air conditioned permit offices with 2-4 people in there, everyday, 365 days a year.

pull heads out of asses? How in the world could we ever survive with out the government getting involved?

Does anyone really believe that the fees would stay at the local level and will only go to help UNF? I don't. When you reserve a campsite on the web, you go through a Parks website. The money goes into an account, used as seen fit.

Same goes with the NC 'Education' lottery. The schools were open and teachers we getting paid before the lottery. Then all of a sudden we have an influx of hundreds of millions of dollars A YEAR, supposedly earmarked for education, but yet we still get news articles about there not being enough money for teachers/buses/new schools/whatever. How is that possible?

 

[weejub]

^^I love this, but . . .

If we truly wanted no government involvement, then I am pretty sure UNF would be even more expensive than the proposed rate increase. As a comparison to a similar experience in SW MO at a private facility, think something like $250/person/weekend. I wonder how long the place will last, too - - sad to say it, but it is EXPENSIVE to run and a labor of love . . .which brings us back to the National Parks and Socialism:

The government sux at a lot of stuff, I agree, but I have thoroughly enjoyed the subsidized ferry's, State Parks, Nat'l Parks and Nat'l Forests that I have got to visit here.

Move to KS and then tell me how "fun" it is to have no government involvement. I love KS more than anywhere, and we have some GREAT LAWS for Libertarians like myself, AND I LAUGH/CRY/GET PISSED at the waste here in NC, but I am also ENJOYING the hell out of NC.

Lets take a moment to thank the Hippie/Yippie liberals in our community to legislate the socialist transfer of funds from our taxes to our hobbies - come on . . you can do it . .