when is this going to happen on an 80?
Updated warning on greasing the rear drive shaft
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when is this going to happen on an 80?
scottm
SILVER Star
Did you read Doug's posts above? Apparently it can happen leaving your driveway after lubing your driveshaft.
When I pulled my driveshaft apart I saw a big glob of grease down at the end, it hadn't migrated toward the splines at all. It would've had to fill the cavity before getting pushed down the splines. With the cavity full of non-compressible grease, it would be like a solid driveshaft instead of a telescoping driveshaft. I'll only grease my driveshaft on warm days when there's a good chance of it slinging around and running downhill to the splines. And I'll take my driveshaft apart every few years to see how things are looking. That's probably overkill, but I sleep better.
IMO a properly maintained shaft won't have any issues. There seems to be a few threads out there that claim this hydro locking problem exists do to some short coming on Toyota's part and I don't see it.
IMO, If you don't have a grease ring at the slip yoke you either
1. using the wrong grease
2. have clogged splines
3. aren't pumping enough grease in during servicing
#3 will lead to clogged splines as grease in those splines is allowed to sit for years and dry out and restrict new grease if at some point someone starts to grease the shaft properly.
When greasing the splines I pump in grease to the point where the shaft starts to expand. And the truck tends to stink for a bit afterwards as the grease expelled from the slip yoke lands on the muffler.
On a side note, I recently pulled a rear shaft from a truck with about 110k miles and the splines looked like they never saw any grease. There was play in the slip yoke and it vibrated at speeds occasionally. The splines where nasty caked with dry grease and it when right in the trash. This is probably one of the most over looked maintenance items on the truck.
If you don't know the history of your shafts then pulling them apart and cleaning them out is a good idea. But I would put them back into the truck prior to greasing to check the slip yoke for play. If you grease them first the grease won't allow you to feel any play unless it's quite a bit. Of course pulling them apart regularly won't do any harm either as long as they go back together properly afterwards.
IMO, If you don't have a grease ring at the slip yoke you either
1. using the wrong grease
2. have clogged splines
3. aren't pumping enough grease in during servicing
#3 will lead to clogged splines as grease in those splines is allowed to sit for years and dry out and restrict new grease if at some point someone starts to grease the shaft properly.
When greasing the splines I pump in grease to the point where the shaft starts to expand. And the truck tends to stink for a bit afterwards as the grease expelled from the slip yoke lands on the muffler.
On a side note, I recently pulled a rear shaft from a truck with about 110k miles and the splines looked like they never saw any grease. There was play in the slip yoke and it vibrated at speeds occasionally. The splines where nasty caked with dry grease and it when right in the trash. This is probably one of the most over looked maintenance items on the truck.
If you don't know the history of your shafts then pulling them apart and cleaning them out is a good idea. But I would put them back into the truck prior to greasing to check the slip yoke for play. If you grease them first the grease won't allow you to feel any play unless it's quite a bit. Of course pulling them apart regularly won't do any harm either as long as they go back together properly afterwards.
chapel gate
GOLD Star
i cant see toyota over looking something like this to be honest. the haynes manual actually states that grease should be pumped in until it oozes past the seal.
i changed a UJ today and while i had the shaft off i pulled the slip yoke off, a 1000 miles ago i greased the slip yoke as per usual, until the shaft expands a little. it was no where near full of grease just a nice coating on the splines and the usual ring of grease around the slip yoke.
i changed a UJ today and while i had the shaft off i pulled the slip yoke off, a 1000 miles ago i greased the slip yoke as per usual, until the shaft expands a little. it was no where near full of grease just a nice coating on the splines and the usual ring of grease around the slip yoke.
X2. I didn't have the grease rings on the driveshafts when I bought the truck. After I pulled the shafts apart and cleaned out the gunk in the splines and the velcro-type seal Doug mentioned, I greased everything and put it back together. Now, with regular greasings, I have the grease rings on both shafts (and the burning smell from the grease after it migrates through the shaft and flings onto the muffler). I use the Valvoline Palladium 3% moly grease for everything.
I think Doug's original warning still has merit for all the neglected driveshafts on these trucks. However, with a couple hours work to dissemble, clean and regrease the driveshafts and then regularly lubing them via the zerk at every oil change, the hydrolocking problem should be avoidable.
Any time the suspension cycles quickly.
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I don't buy into this "hydro locking" thing being a big problem. First the '80 splines move very little, with the linked suspension the axles move in close to the same arc as the drive shaft. The motor and axles are mounted on relatively soft mounts, bushings, so even if the splines were frozen solid, the only result would be the motor moving around more than normal. If you climb under the rig with a pry bar and attempt to move the motor, you will see that the mounts are very soft and you can easily move it much more than the what ~1/4" that the splines move?
Second there are tons of grease tech monkeys out there, empowered by power grease guns, that hook up the gun and pump till grease comes out everywhere. If this were a reliability issue we would have seen tons of transfer/diff problems before the rigs got this old?
The leaf sprung rigs move the shaft much more that the '80, especially the shackle reverse rigs, like the mini. Some of them move inches with full travel and use the same spline design. What you will notice with frozen splines is an harsh ride and the shifters moving more than normal.
I agree that leaving air space is the correct way, I only put ~4 pumps in the splines each time the u-joints are greased. But even if they were pumped solid each time I doubt that it would ever cause a reliability issue.
Second there are tons of grease tech monkeys out there, empowered by power grease guns, that hook up the gun and pump till grease comes out everywhere. If this were a reliability issue we would have seen tons of transfer/diff problems before the rigs got this old?
The leaf sprung rigs move the shaft much more that the '80, especially the shackle reverse rigs, like the mini. Some of them move inches with full travel and use the same spline design. What you will notice with frozen splines is an harsh ride and the shifters moving more than normal.
I agree that leaving air space is the correct way, I only put ~4 pumps in the splines each time the u-joints are greased. But even if they were pumped solid each time I doubt that it would ever cause a reliability issue.
Three easy to tell if you have a plugged slip yoke.
1st Test
On vehicle;
grease the slip yoke till you see the shaft move
drive on bumpy road (to work the shaft back and forth)
pull the grease zirk
If grease flies out the hole and pressure is removed from the yoke, you have a plugged yoke.
2nd Test
Off vehicle (or with one end of drive shaft removed)
move the yoke back and forth
If it moves back and forth it ok, if it doesn't move its plugged. If you remove the zirk and it moves freely after it would not move, its a plugged yoke.
3rd Test (and my personal favorite :whoops: )
grease the slip yoke, grease the slip yoke, grease the slip yoke, wounder where the grease goes, grease the slip yoke...
when the t-case gets berry berry hot and locks up the viscous coupler, you have a plugged slip yoke.
To tell if you have enough grease with an unplugged yoke, grease and drive, grease and drive till you get grease flinging of the shaft. You will see it on the muffler and you will see it on the slip yoke seal.
1st Test
On vehicle;
grease the slip yoke till you see the shaft move
drive on bumpy road (to work the shaft back and forth)
pull the grease zirk
If grease flies out the hole and pressure is removed from the yoke, you have a plugged yoke.
2nd Test
Off vehicle (or with one end of drive shaft removed)
move the yoke back and forth
If it moves back and forth it ok, if it doesn't move its plugged. If you remove the zirk and it moves freely after it would not move, its a plugged yoke.
3rd Test (and my personal favorite :whoops: )
grease the slip yoke, grease the slip yoke, grease the slip yoke, wounder where the grease goes, grease the slip yoke...
when the t-case gets berry berry hot and locks up the viscous coupler, you have a plugged slip yoke.
To tell if you have enough grease with an unplugged yoke, grease and drive, grease and drive till you get grease flinging of the shaft. You will see it on the muffler and you will see it on the slip yoke seal.
I greased the driveshafts for the first time the other day on my '02. The u-joints were lubed until the old grease pushed out past the seals. The slip yokes were greased until I noticed that the shafts started to extend maybe an 1/8". I didn't notice any old grease push past the seals at this point. It was starting to get dark so I wrapped it up for the night so I could head into work. I drove the truck for about 80 miles round trip on the freeway. This is when I searched and found this thread.
This afternoon, I removed the zerks associated with the slip yokes on both shafts. The rear didn't ooze anything out until I jounced the rear suspension. I think it spewed about a 3/4" long rope of grease. The front shaft was a different story. As soon as I removed the zerk fitting, 4-5" of grease oozed out. The front shaft must have been under a good amount of longitudinal loading. I'm really glad I pulled the zerks to relieve the pressure.
I then zip tied a piece of blue shop napkin covering the opening of each zerk and drove around to push out any additional grease from the shafts. Once I got home from driving under various bumps and speeds, I removed the napkins to see how much additional grease had oozed out. The rear pushed out about a nickel diameter worth of grease, nothing substantial came from the front.
Hopefully nothing was damaged by over-greasing the shafts. Time will tell.
This afternoon, I removed the zerks associated with the slip yokes on both shafts. The rear didn't ooze anything out until I jounced the rear suspension. I think it spewed about a 3/4" long rope of grease. The front shaft was a different story. As soon as I removed the zerk fitting, 4-5" of grease oozed out. The front shaft must have been under a good amount of longitudinal loading. I'm really glad I pulled the zerks to relieve the pressure.
I then zip tied a piece of blue shop napkin covering the opening of each zerk and drove around to push out any additional grease from the shafts. Once I got home from driving under various bumps and speeds, I removed the napkins to see how much additional grease had oozed out. The rear pushed out about a nickel diameter worth of grease, nothing substantial came from the front.
Hopefully nothing was damaged by over-greasing the shafts. Time will tell.
So I knew about the "over grease" problem... but my dumbass still did it. I had the rear DS removed for re-gearing. I thought I had compressed it all the way, then I filled it up. Turns out I didn't compress all the way. I drove ~25miles and was hearing a noise. Popped the zerk and a 18" noodle squirted out.
What I hear:
When getting on the gas, or letting off the gas completely, there is a rapid "tr--r-r-r-r-r-r-" coming from the tunnel. It only last a short time. The more gently you ease on or off the gas the longer it lasts.
Not the gears:
At first I thought it was my new 4.88s, but I have convinced myself that is not the problem. With the windows up, the noise seems to be coming directly from under the armrest. With the windows open, you can't even hear the noise. I drove next to a concrete wall with the windows open and still couldn't here the noise. I had a friend stand along the road and he couldn't hear the noise either. This all leads me to believe the noise if from the TC.
So what do I do?
Troubleshooting:
- If I remove the rear driveshaft, do you think the noise will go away? If it does, does that confirm that it is the output bearing?
- Any other ideas?
I'm not averse to replacing the bearing. I'm pretty sure I can do it myself. I just don't want to waste the time if that's not the problem.
Thanks,
What I hear:
When getting on the gas, or letting off the gas completely, there is a rapid "tr--r-r-r-r-r-r-" coming from the tunnel. It only last a short time. The more gently you ease on or off the gas the longer it lasts.
Not the gears:
At first I thought it was my new 4.88s, but I have convinced myself that is not the problem. With the windows up, the noise seems to be coming directly from under the armrest. With the windows open, you can't even hear the noise. I drove next to a concrete wall with the windows open and still couldn't here the noise. I had a friend stand along the road and he couldn't hear the noise either. This all leads me to believe the noise if from the TC.
So what do I do?
Troubleshooting:
- If I remove the rear driveshaft, do you think the noise will go away? If it does, does that confirm that it is the output bearing?
- Any other ideas?
I'm not averse to replacing the bearing. I'm pretty sure I can do it myself. I just don't want to waste the time if that's not the problem.
Thanks,
Any help?????
Hate to bump a normal thread... but I guess it is better than starting new thread.
Hate to bump a normal thread... but I guess it is better than starting new thread.
Did you completely depressurize the drive shaft? The 18" noodle may not have been enough.
Dave,
Been reading this thread with some mild interest. I had this problem occur in a FJ55 the first time I greased the truck myself after I bought it. Overdid the greasing and got the moan from underneath. After consulting with some gearhead friends, releasing a big noodle of grease solved my problem.
That was then, this is now.
So you still have the noise even after taking the zerk loose? If so, I suggest dropping one end, taking the zerk out and applying more pressure on the driveshaft to make sure there is no pressure at all from the grease still putting pressure on the TC output bearing. Then replace and test drive again.
I doubt that the short time you ran the truck before releasing the pressure in itself would cause damage to the TC output bearing. However, it may be that you or a PO were putting some pressure on the driveshaft already and the latest lube pushed it over the edge to failure. Hope that wasn't the case, but don't beat yourself up over it either if that might have been a factor.
GL
Been reading this thread with some mild interest. I had this problem occur in a FJ55 the first time I greased the truck myself after I bought it. Overdid the greasing and got the moan from underneath. After consulting with some gearhead friends, releasing a big noodle of grease solved my problem.
That was then, this is now.
So you still have the noise even after taking the zerk loose? If so, I suggest dropping one end, taking the zerk out and applying more pressure on the driveshaft to make sure there is no pressure at all from the grease still putting pressure on the TC output bearing. Then replace and test drive again.
I doubt that the short time you ran the truck before releasing the pressure in itself would cause damage to the TC output bearing. However, it may be that you or a PO were putting some pressure on the driveshaft already and the latest lube pushed it over the edge to failure. Hope that wasn't the case, but don't beat yourself up over it either if that might have been a factor.
GL
Could be your UJs...
Mine felt good on the DS but when I pulled them apart you could see the brinelling on the races. Stuck in new UJs no more - grrr when on or off the gas.
Mine felt good on the DS but when I pulled them apart you could see the brinelling on the races. Stuck in new UJs no more - grrr when on or off the gas.
Yes. I disconnected from the rear axle and used a wratchet strap to fully compress. And yes, more grease came out. 18" was just when the zerks came off.
Dave,
Been reading this thread with some mild interest. I had this problem occur in a FJ55 the first time I greased the truck myself after I bought it. Overdid the greasing and got the moan from underneath. After consulting with some gearhead friends, releasing a big noodle of grease solved my problem.
That was then, this is now.
So you still have the noise even after taking the zerk loose? If so, I suggest dropping one end, taking the zerk out and applying more pressure on the driveshaft to make sure there is no pressure at all from the grease still putting pressure on the TC output bearing. Then replace and test drive again.
I doubt that the short time you ran the truck before releasing the pressure in itself would cause damage to the TC output bearing. However, it may be that you or a PO were putting some pressure on the driveshaft already and the latest lube pushed it over the edge to failure. Hope that wasn't the case, but don't beat yourself up over it either if that might have been a factor.
GL
Not loosing sleep at all. This is my trail beater toy and my first 4x4. I do all the work myself and learn as I go. Mistakes are made, it happens.
Good point.
So to go back to my previous question... If I pull the rear driveshaft and the noise goes away, it could be the UJs or the TC.
I shook the DS and didn't notice any play. I've never taken apart U-joints, I guess I have something new to learn.
Oh, U-joints are a teachable moment
If you do get into that, check the yokes carefully. They need to be in good shape, too, or new a U-joints will be a temporary fix. If you've been hitting the trails hard with a lot of low-range crawling, a distorted yoke could definitely be part of the issue.
That was one of the things the local stealership got right the one time I let them work on our truck
censor although I kinda doubt that the truck ever left the pavement before we got it. It was the front DS causing rumbles underneath. I knew the U-joint was bad, but they caught that the yoke was also toast and R&Red it. Fixed the issue.
If you do get into that, check the yokes carefully. They need to be in good shape, too, or new a U-joints will be a temporary fix. If you've been hitting the trails hard with a lot of low-range crawling, a distorted yoke could definitely be part of the issue.
That was one of the things the local stealership got right the one time I let them work on our truck
censor although I kinda doubt that the truck ever left the pavement before we got it. It was the front DS causing rumbles underneath. I knew the U-joint was bad, but they caught that the yoke was also toast and R&Red it. Fixed the issue.
