Unusual Find (Maybe) in Diff Oil - Help with ID

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elkaholic

elkaholic

Left turn ...freakin wipers!
10 Year
Joined
Sep 23, 2011
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3,819
Location
Ridgeway, SC
Yesterday in the process of continuing the baselining of maintenance on my "new to me" 80, I changed the gear lube in both axles and transfer. The oil was generally in good shape. Transfer drain plug had essentially nothing on it. Front diff plug had a little bit of the normal "fuzz" and the rear plug had a bit more. What was interesting was that drain plugs on both diffs had larger pieces of debris. The rear had 4 and the front had one. They are clearly the same things, but for the life of me I cannot figure out what they are. Am hoping that someone here has seen this or has a clue of the source of these items (pics below).

Background:
1994 FZJ80 with 188k miles. Appears to have not been wheeled. Factory elocked. Fairly good maintenance records from the first two owners indicating reasonably recent (3 years ago) gear oil change and consistent changes over the rigs lifetime (so far). No noises in any gearbox. Both lockers functional, read indicator light not functional (but tests show actuator working AND rear locker is locking the axles ... I have not checked the switch on the housing yet, but am 99.99% sure that's the culprit). On draining, all oil looked to be in good shape: dark colored - yes, but no metallic sheen or water mixing evident.

What I found:
Rear diff had 4 of these objects - 2 intact and two folded over. Front had one of them intact. They appear to be about 3/8" in diameter, circular, made of spring steel or sheet metal, in a dome shape with "nipple" in the center, and just a few thousandths thick and the edges are sharp. They are not easy to deform.

As I said, they look vaguely familiar, but I cannot place where I have seen something like this before. I cannot think of what the origin of these things might be in a differential, but am hopeful that someone here might. They almost look like something a set screw might bear against (or maybe a detent ball).

Now for pics:

Looking forward to all input.

Pic 1.webp


Pic 2.webp


Pic 3.webp



Pic 4.webp
 
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Interesting... Especially because you found them in both diffs.

They look like the pieces left over from using a punch to make holes in sheet metal... Why they would be in your diffs I have no idea. Leftovers from manufacturing maybe? I can't think of anything in a Toy diff or housing that is made from metal that thin though...
 
Agreed ... Except I think it is likely hardened like spring steel rather than sheet metal since I really cannot bend the intact ones. I thought about mfg debris, but would be very surprised if there was still some in the housings ... :hmm:
 
elkaholic said:
Agreed ... Except I think it is likely hardened like spring steel rather than sheet metal since I really cannot bend the intact ones. I thought about mfg debris, but would be very surprised if there was still some in the housings ... :hmm:
Click to expand...
Found the same thing in My front on Saturday when I did my chromoly axles
 
I dont know but other then really small alliens (I can't belive nobody said that yet). I havent disassembled a pumpkin before, but I wonder if it has to do with the locking mechinism. Odd.... I'm subscribed and looking forward to finding out what the heck that is.
 
LandCruisinMy93 said:
Found the same thing in My front on Saturday when I did my chromoly axles
Click to expand...

Whew ... at least I know my sight isn't getting so bad I am seeing things :doh: ... I am still cornfused as to the source.

fullybalanced said:
I dont know but other then really small alliens (I can't belive nobody said that yet). I havent disassembled a pumpkin before, but I wonder if it has to do with the locking mechinism. Odd.... I'm subscribed and looking forward to finding out what the heck that is.
Click to expand...

That is the only think I can think of too. But I also cannot for the life of me figure out where in the locker mechanism they would come from. :confused:
 
Could you post up a couple more photos? I found that using a blue background seems to help with contrast and color (a white background causes the auto shutter to close down). I often use the macro setting holding the camera about a foot away so the flash doesn't wash out the details. FWIW.
 
Will do that this evening. The photos were taken in macro mode with my D90. I'll try with a blue background. Any particular views you want / need?
 
Just a few shots showing the (cleaned) pieces with more detail, color, contrast. Can't see where they would came from? They don't look like anything that might break off anything else inside the axle housing, were they all stuck to the magnet? Sabotage??
 
10-4. Yes, all stuck to the magnet with the ones out of the rear diff mostly under the normal "fuzz". I'll see if I can get better shots though I do not know if i can get much crisper than the last two above. I compressed the one in the thread ... maybe I'll test the limits of what the new software allows :hillbilly:
 
elkaholic said:
Whew ... at least I know my sight isn't getting so bad I am seeing things :doh: ... I am still cornfused as to the source.



That is the only think I can think of too. But I also cannot for the life of me figure out where in the locker mechanism they would come from. :confused:
Click to expand...
Me too, I only had 1, the only thing I could think of is that maybe the stud holes on the diff mounting surface of the axle housing didn't get completely drilled out before tapping. Maybe that's why it is conical like the tip of a drill bit. Other than that, I'm at a loss for what it could be.
 
@Kernal and everyone else. I am adding pics in a blue background, focusing on the item that is at 3 o'clock in the pictures, there are three views and one dimensioned sketch of the item. Hopefully these come out clear.

Thanks to all who have viewed this and are, like me, scratching your heads and saying, WT_?

The pictures are:
First: Item at 3o'clock is nipple up.
Second: Item is nipple down.
Third: Item is seen in profile in fly fishing forceps.
Fourth: Dimensioned sketch of the item.

Pic 5.webp


Pic 6.webp


Pic 7.webp


Pic 8.webp
 
Inside is scraped, like a drill bit was cutting it. Outside is mill finish.
My guess is high speed drills, hence the blue color. This was mass production high volume stuff.
It might not be your standard 135 split point stuff. It is likely diamond tipped, carbide tipped, etc.
.350' might be predrill for 10mm tap (.394"), or it might be clearance for 8mm (.315"+).
Sometimes when you drill through a piece of metal, you flip these little discs over on the back side.
Somebody didn't show up for the deburring part of the operation that day...
 
@blkprj80 That sounds feasible. I did notice that the surface conditions on the pieces are easier to see in the photo than by the naked eye.
 
If those pieces are part of the manufacturing process, one might assume that the diff oil has never been changed since new, until now. One could also assume that if it was serviced by a dealer during it's warranty period, they never bothered to even inspect it. And that's the saddest part of this story.
 
Yes, but I do have dealer service records from new showing diff services every 30k miles until the prior owner who bought it at about 90k. His records show changes under his ownership at 120 and 150k miles. Manufacturing debris makes the most sense, but I do have trouble believing they would still be there 20 years and several services later. :hmm:
 
The only way the debris could stay there would be if the diff oil really was never replaced. There is no possible way those bits wouldn't come out during any of the alleged 4 diff oil replacements. Makes me wonder what other parts of the vehicle were said to serviced but never actually done. Good to see you base-lining everything now for good measure. Maybe flush everything again in 1000km just to be sure.

This just further strengthens my belief that many workshops do not do as they say they do but charge you for it.

If you want something done properly, do it yourself.
 
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