Two Questions about Electrical Wiring.

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JCruse

JCruse

10 Year
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Hi folks, I'm finally in the process of laying out how I'm going to run the wiring for my inverter before the install and I just have two questions.

#1 - Has anyone used Knu-Koncepts cable? I recently bought 40 feet of it and the insulation seems a bit thin and easy to cut. If anyone has used it or has had issues with it please let me know.

#2 - With that in mind especially, I'm using split loom under the hood and under the dash but (that's as much as I have on hand) but it doesn't look like it will fit in the channel under the door sills with the existing wire loom. (This is a very fat 4 AWG that will require a 1" diameter loom) Is this correct or am I not seeing something? Is it okay to do without in this area and could I just tape it up good as a way of adding insulation?

Let me know what you all think. Thanks.
 
I think you just answered your question. Toss the questionable cable and get some real stuff from McMaster.
The power cable will be subject to water/dirt/etc in the channel that runs down the sides of the 80. Not the place to cut corners.
 
1) Is this the product you are talking about?
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productMaster.cfm?category=Power Wire

I'd forget that and get some solid copper stranded wire. Check local boat shops for wire. They usually have the higher strand count wire you need for our application. They should also be a lot cheaper than McMaster and no shipping.


2) I ran my power cables inside the frame with some extra tubing slipped over the wire at potential chaff points, ie entry and exit from the frame channel. It's pretty easy to snake a piece of bailing wire through the frame to pull the wire. The frame routing offers two advantages a) lots of room for big wire b) lots less work since you don't have to remove interior trim. You can rout the wire back inside through one of the two big rubber grommets located inside the rear quarter panels. Just run poke a hole for the wire and run some RTV around the wire to seal it up when you are done.
 
rusty_tlc said:
2) I ran my power cables inside the frame with some extra tubing slipped over the wire at potential chaff points, ie entry and exit from the frame channel.
Click to expand...

I put my wires inside a garden hose from the engine compartment thru the frame and into the back of the truck where the inverter lives. Works great.
 
That running through the frame method sounds great but I think it's a little out of my league. I'll leave them where they are and just see if I can fit some loom or other tubing in there. I'm going to keep the aluminum wire for now until I need to run heavier loads. Right now I think I'm only pulling about 20 - 30 watts max. I will be pricing copper at the boating store though. One thing I kept running into was copper wire that was much thinner than it's rated gauge. This copper coated aluminum wire is it's 4 gauge rated size and then some! Plus it's very fine stranded and super flexible.
 
an inch loom for a 4wg wire seems rather large. what's with that?

Of course, you may want to pay attention to the fusing upstream. You don't want to do any unnecessary arc welding on your body or frame... :)
 
Copper coated aluminum wire? Really?
You'd never find such stuff on any of my rigs. A little corrosion at a connection will kill off the copper plating, and then a little more corrosion will cause the connection's resistance to increase dramatically. There are many examples of house fires due to unplated aluminum wire. Enough that aluminum is no longer legal to use in houses. Not likely to cause a fire with 12V, but why install a known problem?
 
ntsqd said:
Copper coated aluminum wire? Really?
You'd never find such stuff on any of my rigs. A little corrosion at a connection will kill off the copper plating, and then a little more corrosion will cause the connection's resistance to increase dramatically. There are many examples of house fires due to unplated aluminum wire. Enough that aluminum is no longer legal to use in houses. Not likely to cause a fire with 12V, but why install a known problem?
Click to expand...
I would not use aluminum conductor in a house, car, tractor, you name it. Corrosion can run rampant, and unless you're using terminals designed for the crap, interesting things can happen, most of them hot. Aluminum is also well inferior to copper if you need flexibility either in routing the cable or using it.

Other thing that chides me a bit is that the company rates the cables amp capacity (aka ampacity) at rated temperature. If you take their specs literally, their 8 awg at 50 amps will heat to a little over the boiling point of water. With a bit more power going through that, pvc insulation will melt and flow, with a bit more the wire will fuse...and that means molten conductor.:mad:

I would recommend welding cable, either two individual conductors or insulated as a pair (like a monster lamp cord). Terminal Supply, Wavetek, and your local welding store or NAPA should stock it. Neoprene insulation works well for what you're doing, though it does make the finished cable larger in o.d.

For stuff like this, I usually use aircraft cable rated for 150C, it never gets there but I like a little overkill. Aircraft spruce or your local FBO should have it. Pricey, but typically you won't need much in an automotive application.

Buy the correct terminals, and if you don't have a crimp tool recommended by the terminal maker, find someone who does.

hth

Steve
 
e9999 said:
an inch loom for a 4wg wire seems rather large. what's with that?

Of course, you may want to pay attention to the fusing upstream. You don't want to do any unnecessary arc welding on your body or frame... :)
Click to expand...


I don't know it might be fun to watch at night. :meh:

The cable is half an inch wide, x 2 = 1"
 
That site is so kool, replaking and the c's with k's.... yeah, no way I would run that Aluminum junk, no matter how many colors it comes in.

If you want real wire (safe, not shiny) go to the boat shop as suggested. Or I recently used some Radaflex cable (2x #6) for a fuse panel run and it was really nice stuff.

Don't cut corners on electrical and be sure it is correctly fused at the battery.
 
I managed to squeeze two large 1/0 gage welding wire cables covered in split loom conduit from the engine compartment through the OEM grommet under the windshield wiper motor and down and along the PS "gutter" under the plastic doors sills. The cables are used for my 1500W inverter. Silicone lubricant is a must to get the cables through the grommet. I have a post somewhere in the 80's forum.
 
ntsqd said:
Copper coated aluminum wire? Really?
You'd never find such stuff on any of my rigs. A little corrosion at a connection will kill off the copper plating, and then a little more corrosion will cause the connection's resistance to increase dramatically. There are many examples of house fires due to unplated aluminum wire. Enough that aluminum is no longer legal to use in houses. Not likely to cause a fire with 12V, but why install a known problem?
Click to expand...

The problem with alm wire is the connection not the wire. Your power company uses alm only, every day. Alm is 100% legal to use in homes and not uncommon in today's market, just not in branch circuits of 30Amps or less.

I do agree alm wire use in a vehicle should be avoided.

You can find #4 copper fine strand on Ebay for about the same price as the linked alm. above.
 
Welding cable seems popular for stuff like this, but is not a great option either. The flexibility is nice, but the insulation is not made to stand up to water/oil/gas/etc.
 
tclark said:
Welding cable seems popular for stuff like this, but is not a great option either. The flexibility is nice, but the insulation is not made to stand up to water/oil/gas/etc.
Click to expand...

That seems odd given the conditions where a lot of welding takes place.

Sent via the ether from my candy bar running ginger bread
 
rusty_tlc said:
tclark said:
Welding cable seems popular for stuff like this, but is not a great option either. The flexibility is nice, but the insulation is not made to stand up to water/oil/gas/etc.
Click to expand...
That seems odd given the conditions where a lot of welding takes place.

Sent via the ether from my candy bar running ginger bread
Click to expand...
It is commonly quoted and incorrect, at least as far as a quality cable such as Carolprene Welding cable is concerned. See attached pdf.
 

Attachments

Oh I'm sure you can find some good stuff, but all of it is not that good. I've seen a few instances of nasty swollen welding cable covering on trucks.
 
If you buy crap you can't expect stellar performance.

The downside to using welding cable is that being finely stranded it has a greater tendency to wick moisture up inside it due to the larger number of small voids. I've never seen welding cable offered with water-blocking, but that would a very good option to exercise. That wicking results in corrosion internal to the wire or cable and can cause major problems. Just ask anyone with an older German car about their fine strand wire and corrosion. My own solution is to use adhesive lined heat-shrink to jump from the closed-end crimp terminals to the cable's insulation.
 
If someone is using welding cable odds are it's because it's the cheapest option; that usually doesn't lead to buying a higher grade or brand name.
Not at all saying it can't be used, just that it's not necessarily the best option.
 
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