Turbo Overrun (Runaway) 1HD-T (1 Viewer)

[MyModded80HDT]

OK so as the header states, I had my 1HD-T have a Runaway event this morning, managed to dump a few blasts from the extinguisher into the snorkel/baffle which starved it but it went to +9000 for a few up and down cycles with the longest it continually hit above redline being about 25 seconds tops.

The context for this event being that I put a little too much oil in this morning, I felt the turbo lagging a little bit and knew what the issue was but due to where I was (major intersection, morning commuter traffic, on ramp to motorway) so I drove about 300m onto the M1 where I knew there was a breakdown bay, unfortunately 100m before I got there it decided to run on oil instead of diesel

I'm no mechanic by any means but I do my own servicing and know the principles behind this motor, plus I'd rather try and save some coin by ruling out some things before taking it to a mechanic who will see dollar signs when it comes in on a tilt tray.

My questions for the geniuses here are as follows:

I want to get an idea of what sort of damage has been done, I was planning on cleaning out the intake box and pipe, stripping the intake manifold and cleaning it out, then strip the turbo and clean it out. I figure after that I can put it back together, take 4 of the glow plugs out, crank it over and see if it actually turns over, if this happens then I will dump the oil and check for metal swarf (or bearing caps etc) refill and compression test each cylinder, and then try and start it. Is this the correct process to do a preliminary diagnosis for this particular context?

Best case scenario here? New turbo kit, seals, and gaskets?

Worst case scenario here? Conrods stretched/warped, head damage, turbo damage, crankshaft and bore refit?

Feel free to bash me for this stupidity, I'm wishing now I had just endured the abuse from my fellow drivers by stopping at the lights and dumping some oil from the pan, but something tells me that once the oil pushed into the turbo this was going to happen no matter what. Either way, ruin my life and tell me what the best case and worst case is for me here. I love my 80, but would I have been better off letting it catch on fire and claiming the insurance???

 

[sunrk]

I've heard of this sort of thing but wow never actually known it did really happen. 9000 rpm wow! Automotive diesels don't have any sort of 'governor' or limiter in the injection pump design that I'm aware of to prevent 'rpm runaway'.

Lucky you were able to contain/control the event and get it to stop and didn't have to open the engine bay and deal with a 'full tilt' motor to get at the fuel solenoid to try and stop it. Would that have even worked to shut down the motor in your case?

Turbo oil seals? a problem with the PCV setup (being a turbo, I'm presuming the crankcase venting has a one-way valve?)?

 

[MyModded80HDT]

I've heard of this sort of thing but wow never actually known it did really happen. 9000 rpm wow! Automotive diesels don't have any sort of 'governor' or limiter in the injection pump design that I'm aware of to prevent 'rpm runaway'.

Lucky you were able to contain/control the event and get it to stop and didn't have to open the engine bay and deal with a 'full tilt' motor to get at the fuel solenoid to try and stop it. Would that have even worked to shut down the motor in your case?

Turbo oil seals? a problem with the PCV setup (being a turbo, I'm presuming the crankcase venting has a one-way valve?)?

Ahhh yeah, not sure how high the revs actually got, it valve bounced once, the +9000 was a geek anime reference (Dragonball), let's just say I sounded and looked like a Space X launch and the smoke shutdown the M1 northbound until I got it starved

As for getting the hood open, I didn't want to go near it, it was just absolute pure dumb luck that a hawk had collected my snorkel and ripped it off over the weekend, so the actual hole into the panel was available for the extinguisher dump. I do t think it was running o diesel at all tbh, it was burning on oil and was totally out of control.

As for turbo kit, I figure the over pressure from too much oil in the sump weakened an old intake seal on the ct26, and it was a cascade from that point on.

I've spent a shipload of time on the phone, and here, trying to figure out best/worst case scenarios. I'm about to strip the manifold off and remove the turbo to see if the vanes either side are intact, I figure if there isn't any missing metal then the odds of bore damage from stray turbine are low. Whether the big end and conrods are damaged is something I'll have to wait to find out. I figure if my diagnostic process per my original comment is correct then I will know once it turns over, or not.

 

[MUDZLLA]

Run some FTC Decarbonizer through it and hope for the best.

 

[MyModded80HDT]

Run some FTC Decarbonizer through it and hope for the best

 

[MyModded80HDT]

I figure this will solve any valvetrain, bare and bearing issues without having to inspect them beforehand then where do I buy this magic spray?

 

[MyModded80HDT]

Run some FTC Decarbonizer through it and hope for the best.

Seriously though, I really would like to know if my diagnostic process is correct?

Eg: manifold off, turbo off, glow plugs out, crank over, if it isn't seized then, plugs in, gaskets and seals (if turbo not destroyed, which I wouldn't be able to ascertain as I'm not that mechanically inclined), turn over, if it starts with normal exhaust smoke how many kms until the damage I can't see totally finished the motor hahaha

 

[mudgudgeon]

Seriously though, I really would like to know if my diagnostic process is correct?

I would turn it over by hand before cranking it.

I experienced two runaways with my old hdj80. 1st one was when turbo detonated. Managed to shut it down before it redlined.

I stripped and rebuilt the engine due to it swallowing turbo shrapnel.

2nd one was a few 1000km later. I had a different rebuilt turbo on it.
2nd runaway, taco needle went right off the scale.
It took both feet on the brakes to stall it out in 5th gear.
A diesel at your 9000rpm is a scary monster!

Best case scenario here? New turbo kit, seals, and gaskets?

Worst case scenario here? Conrods stretched/warped, head damage, turbo damage, crankshaft and bore refit?

Best case, run it as is, and get lucky, but forever wonder when it's gonna shít the bed.

Worst case, run it as is, something fails, and you have a catastrophic failure.

Best worst case, budget for a full rebuild, tear it down, have everything inspected and crack tested, and do a full rebuild now. Enjoy that baby for the next 20 years.

I gave up on mine. Didn't have the spare cash to give it a full rebuild.
I regret dumping it, but at the time I had no other option.

 

[MyModded80HDT]

Oh man, thanks for the optimistic outlook hahaha.

Seriously though, I will hand crank it, I'm hoping for best case scenario which is a new turbo and gaskets/seals. I don't like the worst case scenario because as your case was, I'm cash poor and can't afford a new engine, and I love my 80. I'll sell my boat before I get rid of it...

And yes, it went from normal to out of control in about 7 seconds, and I was waiting for a loud bang and metal sounds plus shrapnel to come my way while I was firing off the extinguisher. Very scary moment.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Was your for extinguisher CO2?
Or dry powder?

 

[mudgudgeon]

Oh man, thanks for the optimistic outlook hahaha.

Seriously though, I will hand crank it, I'm hoping for best case scenario which is a new turbo and gaskets/seals. I don't like the worst case scenario because as your case was, I'm cash poor and can't afford a new engine, and I love my 80. I'll sell my boat before I get rid of it...

And yes, it went from normal to out of control in about 7 seconds, and I was waiting for a loud bang and metal sounds plus shrapnel to come my way while I was firing off the extinguisher. Very scary moment.

Yeah, I was expecting to see pistons come through the bonnet on mine.
It's a hell of a noise!

You might get lucky and be able to keep running it with no issues.

Cross all your fingers!

 

[MyModded80HDT]

Was your for extinguisher CO2?
Or dry powder?

It's a CO² ABE one, I had the little 2.5kg dry powder on standby ready for if it didn't work and it went full volcano.

 

[MyModded80HDT]

Yeah, I was expecting to see pistons come through the bonnet on mine.
It's a hell of a noise!

You might get lucky and be able to keep running it with no issues.

Cross all your fingers!

Yeah here's hoping. And it was loud, smoky, and my labourer disappeared like a magic trick once it became apparent it wasn't a controlled situation, I found him up the embankment behind a tree with eyes like dinner plates Currently cursing at my skinned knuckles at this point in time, I know why I didn't choose to be a mechanic...

 

[mudgudgeon]

It's a CO² ABE one, I had the little 2.5kg dry powder on standby ready for if it didn't work and it went full volcano.

Sounds like you got it with CO2. You did well to stop it

ABE is chemical powder. And not something you want to feed to an engine you have any sympathy for.

I had a demo crew tip a mini excavator on it's side inside a building. The operator killed the ignition, but it had already run away.
By the time I got to it 3 minutes later, the building was full of black smoke. It took a full 4.5kg CO2 extinguisher sprayed into the intake to snuff it. It died as the CO2 ran out!
The demo guys all scattered except the operator who ran to find me. No-one else knew what to do

 

[mudgudgeon]

^^^ that excavator was left to sit for two hours while he the demolition company talked to a mechanic. Their mechanic ended up saying "start it and see what happens"

We restarted it with two extinguishers on standby.

It fired up and ran fine for the next few days on site. Wonder how it went long term

 

[DivByZero]

Never been in this situation - but - I'd recommend inspecting the oil first. As in - drain the thing fully into a new container. It's quick and easy. If you've got shrapnel, you know right away you're talking full rebuild. No way around it.

If no sign of shrapnel, send it away for analysis maybe? People here talk about Blackstone state-side. Never used a service like that, but might be worth it in a case like this. While waiting for that, and if there's no shrapnel, I'd probably try turning it over by hand as the next easy thing. If that works, and it feels good, I'd probably also drop the pan and/or flush the engine through with a bit of diesel, and see what comes out. I'd do all that before you go down the rabbit hole of pulling and rebuilding things, and definitely before you try and start it back up under its own power. If all signs look good though, and the oil analysis doesn't flag something catastrophic, maybe consider from there whether you start and drive, or tear into it further. It's not a foregone conclusion it's toast, it could have survived.

Diesel runaway is scary. Never experienced it first hand. Probably isn't possible under the 1HZ I'd imagine unless you inject something like nitrous into the intake. Didn't diesel runaway cause the Deepwater Horizon disaster?

 

[MyModded80HDT]

Sounds like you got it with CO2. You did well to stop it

ABE is chemical powder. And not something you want to feed to an engine you have any sympathy for.

I had a demo crew tip a mini excavator on it's side inside a building. The operator killed the ignition, but it had already run away.
By the time I got to it 3 minutes later, the building was full of black smoke. It took a full 4.5kg CO2 extinguisher sprayed into the intake to snuff it. It died as the CO2 ran out!
The demo guys all scattered except the operator who ran to find me. No-one else knew what to do

Mate I was just pissing into the wind at that stage, I knew that once I had killed the ignition and punched the turbo timer off button, mashed it would be a better adjective tbh, that it wasn't going to sort itself out via me doing normal things I just went with a knee-jerk flood the engine bay via the closest hole and pray that I didn't see flames as I knew powder would be a possible end of motor solution.

As for the excavator scenario, mate I've been on mine sites, gas/oil rigs, power stations and such, I know how s*** can go sideways if people don't keep calm, I guess seeing similar s*** made rational thought happen and "starve the source" kicked in once I committed to not making it an insurance option. FWIW I have an agreed value of 40k on my 80, it costs me a packet but I didn't want to have to deal with a****** insurance claim guys asking questions about service history etc when it had all gone up in flames because I keep the Manila folder in the glovebox hahahaha

 

[MyModded80HDT]

Never been in this situation - but - I'd recommend inspecting the oil first. As in - drain the thing fully into a new container. It's quick and easy. If you've got shrapnel, you know right away you're talking full rebuild. No way around it.

If no sign of shrapnel, send it away for analysis maybe? People here talk about Blackstone state-side. Never used a service like that, but might be worth it in a case like this. While waiting for that, and if there's no shrapnel, I'd probably try turning it over by hand as the next easy thing. If that works, and it feels good, I'd probably also drop the pan and/or flush the engine through with a bit of diesel, and see what comes out. I'd do all that before you go down the rabbit hole of pulling and rebuilding things, and definitely before you try and start it back up under its own power. If all signs look good though, and the oil analysis doesn't flag something catastrophic, maybe consider from there whether you start and drive, or tear into it further. It's not a foregone conclusion it's toast, it could have survived.

Diesel runaway is scary. Never experienced it first hand. Probably isn't possible under the 1HZ I'd imagine unless you inject something like nitrous into the intake. Didn't diesel runaway cause the Deepwater Horizon disaster?

Thanks for your input here mate, I had a mechanical savvy mate just tell me
the same thing, check for swarf/chunks etc before cranking it under battery.

This whole thing has been quite the ordeal as I've never had a motor go on me, so it has been an experience so far tbh. I have managed to strip and remove the intake box, throttle assembly, exhaust shroud, various pipes and sensors, cracked the manifold and am ready for tomorrow's attack on the header joiner and other lower body fittings.

I have been documenting various stages via video and stills so I am inclined to put it together into a step by step video for historical reference. Searching for 1HD-T specific teardowns on YT gives me some stuff but not a balls deep dive into this entire stripdown and process so I could make things easier for someone in future by uploading.

Again, thanks to you and the other people who have replied, the stress level has dimishied slightly so far...

 

[mudgudgeon]

Never been in this situation - but - I'd recommend inspecting the oil first. As in - drain the thing fully into a new container. It's quick and easy. If you've got shrapnel, you know right away you're talking full rebuild. No way around it.

If no sign of shrapnel, send it away for analysis maybe? People here talk about Blackstone state-side. Never used a service like that, but might be worth it in a case like this. While waiting for that, and if there's no shrapnel, I'd probably try turning it over by hand as the next easy thing. If that works, and it feels good, I'd probably also drop the pan and/or flush the engine through with a bit of diesel, and see what comes out. I'd do all that before you go down the rabbit hole of pulling and rebuilding things, and definitely before you try and start it back up under its own power. If all signs look good though, and the oil analysis doesn't flag something catastrophic, maybe consider from there whether you start and drive, or tear into it further. It's not a foregone conclusion it's toast, it could have survived.

Diesel runaway is scary. Never experienced it first hand. Probably isn't possible under the 1HZ I'd imagine unless you inject something like nitrous into the intake. Didn't diesel runaway cause the Deepwater Horizon disaster?

It can happen with any high mileage diesel if enough oil finds its way past piston rings

 

[cody c]

Crazy. I would replace the turbo and see if it works. If you want pull injectors and try and get and extinguisher residue out but I'd probably just run it and see if it works the same or close to what your used to.

You all see now why positive air shut off is a requirement in some places for diesels etc. Might have luck collapsing a rubber or silicon hose somewhere in the IC piping to see if it stalls it.