Tricks to turning over when ignition spark is not reaching starter

[Inthemountains84]

Hello,
I've been having trouble with my 1993 LC turning over. It took upwards of 20 key turns to have it crank up. It was a grounding wire issue between the ignition and the starter. My mechanic is in the process of installing a starter button that solves this issue. But! My mechanic is our of town for a few weeks, and now I'm not getting the spark from the ignition to my starter.

I've adjusted and made sure the starter wires are secure, next will see if I can check the wires going from my ignition to my starter if I can locate them.

Does anyone have any thoughts on something I can do to get the car to turn over until my mechanic returns and finishes the starter button job? Any input is greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance. All the best, Rich

 

[bhsdriller]

can you clarify on turning over vs. crank up

When you turn the key does it not do anything? Does the starter engage and turn but it doesn't start?

 

[BILT4ME]

Turn over or cranking means the engine is rotating while the starter is engaged.

Starting and running is after the "start" position on the key is released, the engine runs.

Not turning over means that no matter what you do with the key, the engine will not rotate.

 

[secretasiansam]

Mine does this. Sometimes holding the key on start will get it to fire. Sometimes twenty turns gets it to fire. Sometimes I throw a jump pack on the battery and it will fire.

 

[Inthemountains84]

Turn over or cranking means the engine is rotating while the starter is engaged.

Starting and running is after the "start" position on the key is released, the engine runs.

Not turning over means that no matter what you do with the key, the engine will not rotate.

Thank you so much for the clarification. The first step is getting the lexicon correct! Very much appreciated.

 

[Inthemountains84]

can you clarify on turning over vs. crank up

When you turn the key does it not do anything? Does the starter engage and turn but it doesn't start?

Thanks for the response. Getting the language correct is the first thing. It is not turning over. The battery is charged and the electronics work. But turning the key does start the engine. My mechanic says the connection between the ignition and the starter is faulty. So I guess I'm wondering if there is any way to start the starter without the ignition.

I appreciate the replies. Thanks so much!

 

[Inthemountains84]

Mine does this. Sometimes holding the key on start will get it to fire. Sometimes twenty turns gets it to fire. Sometimes I throw a jump pack on the battery and it will fire.

Great! I'll give all these methods a go. Much appreciated.

 

[jonheld]

The majority of "no crank" issues are from faulty or worn starter contacts.
If you turn the ignition to START and you hear a "clunk" from the starter, it means that the solenoid is pulling in. This verifies all the logic from the battery to the starter and points to the contacts for the solenoid. OEM replacement parts are available and inexpensive.
There are many many threads regarding rebuilding starters.
28226-66060 starter terminal (battery side)
28226-72010 starter terminal (motor side)
28235-54380 solenoid plunger

If there is no clunk or no voltage reaching the starter logic terminal (small push on connector), then there is a problem upstream.
The logic for the starter circuit is pretty simple on these trucks in stock form:
Battery positive/Fusible Link AM1/Fuse AM1/ignition switch/neutral start switch/starter solenoid.
The battery side of the starter is connected directly to the battery positive terminal.
Nothing else effects that circuit UNLESS YOU HAVE A DEALER INSTALLED ALARM WITH A STARTER CUT OFF. The older alarm systems tend to fail over time. There are many threads regarding alarm removal.

There have been several posts about faulty ignition switches. They do tend to wear out after 30 or so years and can be replaced with OEM parts.
The neutral start switch is also prone to wearing out after 30 years or so, and the connector should also be inspected as it is subject to spray and debris.

 

[Mark W]

Great! I'll give all these methods a go. Much appreciated.

This problem is very very common and has been discussed and over-discussed forever here on Mud. Jon has covered it pretty well. The only thing I will add is that the odds are tremendously... tremendously in favor of the problem being the solenoid contacts. Almost always. these are easy to replace if you would rather not replace the starter. If you are paying someone to do the work, you do not really save much over just replacing the starter. If you do it yourself, you save a lot.

Oh yeah... also... consider finding another mechanic. You do not have to specialize in land Cruisers to know that the solenoid contacts are the most likely problem and the first thin g to check. Adding in an auxiliary starter button to an '80 is real backyard hack kinda stuff. I will admit to having done that once per a customer's specific request. But it is not how a professional fixes the problem. AND... if the problem IS the contacts... at best it will make them function just a little longer... if it does anything at all.

Edit: there really is no "grounding" to this circuit beyond the fact that the entire circuit grounds after the electricity has passed through everything, done its job and finds it's way to ground via the starter itself... as in, the starter is bolted to the block. THAT is the "grounding" of the circuit. Pretty much impossible to have a "grounding problem" here. Find a better mechanic.

Mark...

 

[JoeCova]

I created a jumper to bypass the ignition if I ever have an issue. See post #132. You don’t need an OEM connector.

This thread covers several fixes as well

94 delayed cranking. Starter, ignition switch, or other?

My issue was not the big (hot 12v) wire being corroded. It was signal wire from the ignition switch not being adequate sometimes. It could be the small wire itself, the switch or the 12v to the ignition switch. The Ford solenoid takes 12v directly from the battery to the solenoid switch...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[Inthemountains84]

Hello,
I've been having trouble with my 1993 LC turning over. It took upwards of 20 key turns to have it crank up. It was a grounding wire issue between the ignition and the starter. My mechanic is in the process of installing a starter button that solves this issue. But! My mechanic is our of town for a few weeks, and now I'm not getting the spark from the ignition to my starter.

I've adjusted and made sure the starter wires are secure, next will see if I can check the wires going from my ignition to my starter if I can locate them.

Does anyone have any thoughts on something I can do to get the car to turn over until my mechanic returns and finishes the starter button job? Any input is greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance. All the best, Rich

Thank you to everyone who responded to my request @

This problem is very very common and has been discussed and over-discussed forever here on Mud. Jon has covered it pretty well. The only thing I will add is that the odds are tremendously... tremendously in favor of the problem being the solenoid contacts. Almost always. these are easy to replace if you would rather not replace the starter. If you are paying someone to do the work, you do not really save much over just replacing the starter. If you do it yourself, you save a lot.

Oh yeah... also... consider finding another mechanic. You do not have to specialize in land Cruisers to know that the solenoid contacts are the most likely problem and the first thin g to check. Adding in an auxiliary starter button to an '80 is real backyard hack kinda stuff. I will admit to having done that once per a customer's specific request. But it is not how a professional fixes the problem. AND... if the problem IS the contacts... at best it will make them function just a little longer... if it does anything at all.

Edit: there really is no "grounding" to this circuit beyond the fact that the entire circuit grounds after the electricity has passed through everything, done its job and finds it's way to ground via the starter itself... as in, the starter is bolted to the block. THAT is the "grounding" of the circuit. Pretty much impossible to have a "grounding problem" here. Find a better mechanic.

Mark...

Thanks so much, Mark. I just had a new starter (with solenoid contacts) installed a few months back. So, do you still think it might be the solenoid contacts?

I ended up just trying to give my battery a little extra juice by jumping it from another car. It started right up! Does the fact that it started with more juice point to you to any other conclusions of what might be the issue? I thought maybe my battery was drained a bit and not at 100%.

Any and all input is GREATLY appreciated! Thanks so much. Rich

 

[Mark W]

Thank you to everyone who responded to my request @

Thanks so much, Mark. I just had a new starter (with solenoid contacts) installed a few months back. So, do you still think it might be the solenoid contacts?

I ended up just trying to give my battery a little extra juice by jumping it from another car. It started right up! Does the fact that it started with more juice point to you to any other conclusions of what might be the issue? I thought maybe my battery was drained a bit and not at 100%.

Any and all input is GREATLY appreciated! Thanks so much. Rich

Deteriorated solenoid contacts will often still do their job with a boost in power from a jumpstart. Until they deteriorate more.

Many replacement starters are not held to the highest of standards as they are put together. It is important that the solenoid contacts are installed properly aligned, or they can have very short life. Basically if they do not mate true, then one side will take more of the arcing and pitting and wear very quickly. The more it wears, the faster it wears and the more it wears and the faster it wears... As the final tightening of the nuts/bots that secure the contact is done, it is very easy to twist them ever so slightly. And that is all that it takes to start them on the road to early failure.

So, yes, it *is* possible for a relatively new starter to suffer solenoid contact deterioration. Anytime I install a replacement starter I always open it up and loosen/retighten the contacts to ensure they are mating true with the plunger.

A less common problem, but one that is not unknown in the '80, is voltage drop between the battery and the starter, due to wear in the ignition switch causing less than ideal electrical contact and less than optimal wire gauge through the circuit(s) in question. A very effective way to address this is to install a relay (and slightly larger wires) to deliver current from the battery to the solenoid, with the ignition switch only being used to trigger the relay.
I am not much for searching here in Mud, but there have been several threads on how to do the relay. Perhaps someone will toss up some links to one.

Mark...