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Transmission/transfer seal questions

Discussion in '40- & 55-Series Tech' started by offcamber40, Oct 31, 2003.

  1. offcamber40

    offcamber40

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    Allright, I replaced all my transmission and transfer seals and gaskets on my 76 fj40, except the gasket and seal between the junction of the transfer/trans.. how do I determine if that inner seal is leaking b/w the two units, and if it is leaking, what problems does it cause if I dont pull the two apart to replace it.. secondly, if I have to pull it apart, how easy do the units come apart, and are any special tools required.. I am worried that I m going to have gears all over the floor and no idea what order they go back together.. thanks.

    Mike
     
  2. Poser

    Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. s-Moderator Supporting Vendor

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    First,

    You will not have gears all over the floor, only one, or maybe two if you have the PTO gear in the t-case. Everything else stays in the t-case, and after removing the five bolts that hold it on, should slide off the transmission output shaft. Sometimes a t-bar puller arrangement is needed to get these separated, but it is really not that big of a deal.

    If the seal between the two gear boxes is bad, you will get gear oil transferring from one to the other, which does not sound bad, until one goes empty while going down the road, and now you need a new gearbox, and a tow.

    What I have found is that the gear oil from the t-case, gets past the seal installed in the t-case between the trans and t-case, and overfills the transmission. If you are aware that this is happening, set up a time to do the required repair. If you do not have a Toyota chassis and body manual for your FJ-40, I would recommend the small investment for this reference material. It is defiantly worth its cost.
     
  3. IDave

    IDave

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    I have had my cases apart 3 times and always needed a puller.
     
  4. offcamber40

    offcamber40

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    OK, where would I get this type of puller? I looked in my haynes manual, which is almost useless, and judging by posers description, I remove the nut on the output shaft, use a puller of some sort, and a couple of gears come off with the transfers depending on if I have a pto gear. Do I need to remove the top cover (where the shifter is) I allready repleced that gasket and sealed it, and dont feel like destroying it again if I dont have to.
     
  5. woodsfj40

    woodsfj40

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    Mine leaks from the tranny to the transfer. Every 3 or 4 months I take the excess out of the transfer and put it back in the tranny. Looking at it I don't think the tranny would ever leak completly dry, at the lower level of the seal there is still a lot of fluid in there.

    If yours gets the fluid pushed from the transfer up to the tranny, they make a kit that replaces the fill plugs and lets the fluid flow back to the transfer.
     
  6. Poser

    Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. s-Moderator Supporting Vendor

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    No. You will need to remove the rear PTO cover(cone shaped, six bolts), remove the nut on the end of the trans output shaft, remove the five bolts that hold the t-case to the trans, and you are about done.(after the shift linkage is removed). The t-case will swing/pivot down after the last bolt is removed, so be mindfull here to not get hurt, and to control this when it happens.

    This t-bar style puller should be at any auto place that rents/sells tools. The tricky part will be getting the 10mmx130mm or so x1.25 bolts. Two of these will be needed to thread into the rear of the t-case, where that output shaft pokes through. The screw of the puller, will press against the shaft, and pull the case off the output shaft.
    ( I use two oem Toy alt. pivot/mounting bolts for this)

    If you do not have them, find a couple bolts that fit, and weld a 7/16 or 3/8 nut on the top, and use ASE hardwear, and pull the case.

    Really not that big of a deal.

    -Steve
     
  7. IDave

    IDave

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    As to the puller, the thing I found a little tricky was getting the screw to center over the output shaft, since, on my transfer, none of the screw holes line up perfectly with the shaft at the proper angles for the puller I found. So, I ended up doing it off center a little, but after the first pop it came apart fairly easily.
     
  8. cruiser_guy

    cruiser_guy

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    [quote author=scottsfj40 link=board=1;threadid=6973;start=msg57654#msg57654 date=1067653593]
    Mine leaks from the tranny to the transfer. Every 3 or 4 months I take the excess out of the transfer and put it back in the tranny. Looking at it I don't think the tranny would ever leak completly dry, at the lower level of the seal there is still a lot of fluid in there.
    [/quote]

    Mine lost over a quart to the transmission (that's nearly 1/2 the fluid quantity)!
    [quote author=scottsfj40 link=board=1;threadid=6973;start=msg57654#msg57654 date=1067653593]
    If yours gets the fluid pushed from the transfer up to the tranny, they make a kit that replaces the fill plugs and lets the fluid flow back to the transfer.
    [/quote]
    You can buy the kit or you can do as I did and go to the nearest hydraulic supply place and buy 2 of "10-1JH9-08-18-OG" 90deg. elbows and 2 of "10-26712-08-08" hose nipples and a length of the appropriate sized oil resistant hose and make your own for 1/2 price! Those are the part numbers on my invoice and they fit fine in the split case transfer and tranny in my BJ60.
     
  9. Poser

    Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. s-Moderator Supporting Vendor

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    [quote author=IDave link=board=1;threadid=6973;start=msg57658#msg57658 date=1067654347]
    As to the puller, the thing I found a little tricky was getting the screw to center over the output shaft, since, on my transfer, none of the screw holes line up perfectly with the shaft at the proper angles for the puller I found. So, I ended up doing it off center a little, but after the first pop it came apart fairly easily.
    [/quote]


    Using a steering wheel puller??
     
  10. Pin_Head

    Pin_Head

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    Personally, I wouldn't bother pulling the case just toreplace the seal. They all leak into the tranny. At least you only have to fill up the transfer case. :D
     
  11. Poser

    Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. s-Moderator Supporting Vendor

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    [quote author=Pin_Head link=board=1;threadid=6973;start=msg57725#msg57725 date=1067664412]


    Personally, I wouldn't bother pulling the case just toreplace the seal. They all leak into the tranny. At least you only have to fill up the transfer case. :D
    [/quote]


    I know of at least ten that don't! :p
     
  12. IDave

    IDave

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    [quote author=Poser link=board=1;threadid=6973;start=msg57707#msg57707 date=1067662673]
    Using a steering wheel puller??
    [/quote]

    I think it was. My NAPA and one other a hundred miles away didn't have such a large puller, and the specialty tool store asked 150 bucks for a big puller. I ended up at a cheapo parts place (forget which national chain) who had the $20 steering wheel puller that just spanned the gap (about 6 inches IIRC). Also, you need long screws because the output shaft sticks out pretty far for the standard puller screws. Those weren't just easy to find, either. I think Toyota made/makes an SST for this job. The places I checked didn't have a clue as to the type of puller you described, Poser.
     
  13. offcamber40

    offcamber40

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    When I first got the cruiser, I checked all the fluids to top them off, and I had excess fluid come out of the trans filler, at the time I did not know what that meant.. When I fill the units with the proper fluid amounts, what level does the fluid come to? My old jeep you just filled them until the oil started coming back out the filler hole.. if I just get one of those overflow kits listed above, will the levels maintain themselves at a proper fill height? Also, where would I get one of those self leveling kits.

    Mike
     
  14. IDave

    IDave

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    Yup, out the filler hole, and maybe a squirt or two more for the transfer. Dunno about the transfer kit. I'd just fix the seal!
     
  15. cruiser_guy

    cruiser_guy

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    I've been able to sucessfully separate the tranny and transfer using a standard 6" two jaw puller on two bolts threaded in to opposite holes at the rear bearing cover. Did it on two different tranny/transfers and no damage. Not exactly an SST but it worked just fine for me. :cheers:
     
  16. offcamber40

    offcamber40

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    Well, I decided to try to replace the seal, and after about an hour of messing with it, I got them apart! cruiser_guy, your suggestion of a 2-arm puller is what I used, except it was a 4" puller that worked for me. Thanks for everyones input, it really helped me out.. The only thing that gave me problems, was the bearing on the output shaft, I did not realize that it was pressed on, and it took a bit to try to figure out how to get it off since my puller was not long enough. Anyway, when re-installing the gears, I assume I put the output shaft through the T-case enough to put on the transfer input gear, then the pto gear. Is is easiest to get it bolted together after that then tap the bearing back down the output shaft? What do you guys use to reinstall the bearing? One last question, how much slop on the transfer input gear to output shaft splines is normal, mine has quite a bit, while the pto gear has none. Thanks again everyone.

    Mike
     
  17. cruiser_guy

    cruiser_guy

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    There should not be much slop on the gears at all. The bearing can likely be slipped over the output shaft enough to get the nut on to push the rest of the way. If you need a 3 speed tranny or the transfer input gears, I have a tranny and the transfer input gears. :cheers:
     
  18. bad_religion_au

    bad_religion_au

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    my case has leaked dry completely before. is their any harm to be done by making a return line from the transmission filler hole to the transfer case filler hole and leaving the seal as is?
     
  19. cruiser_guy

    cruiser_guy

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    Man-a-fre makes just such a kit! Or you can do as I did until I get around to fixing the seal and make your own. See the part numbers above if you want to try your own return line. It's much cheaper. No guarantees though.
     
  20. bad_religion_au

    bad_religion_au

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    cruiser guy, i know they exist, my 40 has one, easy to make, esp with a plumber as an old man, i was just wondering the harm that may be done. common australian practice is to use a return line instead of redoing seals