Transfer case re-gearing (2 Viewers)

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How is high range reduction different from high range OD/UD?

Quote from another vendor "We don't have any high-range offerings in-stock, they are still in development. They will offer a high range reduction whereas the Terrain Taimer (and our Joint Fuji gears) are a high range overdrive option."


If you say reduction, then you are saying undedrive. The numbers are higher (ratio). Meaning in HI you have OEM setting at 1:1. Whatever goes in, goes out at the same ratio/speed.
We don't want that with bigger tires. We want a "reduction" not overdrive. The tires provide enough overdrive to drive all of us crazy here.
We want under drive for the HI gear and an even greater reduction for the LO gear.

For every revolution the tranny puts out, the transfers case in it's original state puts out 1 revolution to the shafts (both front and rear).

Lets just look at HI gear, the one you use everyday on the street.

With 33's, 35's, 37's etc you are already in overdrive. The engine spins around less (lower RPM) at a given speed. This also translates into less perceived power. Although the power stays the same, what is put on the asphalt is less. I said "perceived".

If you run bigger size tires, you want to regear the 2 differentials with a lower gear (higher numerically).

Instead of doing so, you can regear the x-case in HI and accomplish the same thing. Making the engine work harder (rev more) for each transfercase revolution.
In fact the engine goes back to it's own parameters, as it was running before with 31" tires.

A 10% reduction (higher value numerically... 1.1 gear) would the drivetrain to about 4.5:1, which is good for 33" and 35"
People with 35" prefer a more aggressive gearing of 4.88 as the tire mass increases, the inertia is a larger factor to combat, etc.
 
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Not doubting you, but would like to know how you came up with that ? Granted it makes a lot of sense as I'm 10% off on my speedo.


Tricky math formula.

315/75-16 is actually 34.5" in diameter. We normally call it 35". Doesn't really matter. The OEM tire size is actually 31.16"

(34.5 x 4.11)/31.16 = 4.55
(34.5 x 4.10)/31.16 = 4.539 ~4.54

Now the x-case gear with 10% goes like this: 4.11 (final) x 1.1 = 4.521
Or 4.10 x 1.1 = 4.51

As you can see the results are really close together.

This is purely theoretical. Not accounting for any other factors, mass and friction. On the paper.

That's why in real life applications, people prefer 4.88 gears with 35" which is theoretically more underdrive due to real life obstacles not accounted for the math formula.
 
Another point worth pondering ........

If you want the ultimate low gearing but aren't looking to install some sort of Tcase "doubler", then you can run really low diff gears ( say 5.13s maybe ) along with the 3.15:1 Tcase low range. That however would not be optimal on the freeway even if you're running 35" or 37" tires.
But then you have the option of running a set of the Terrain Tamer OD high range gears to bring your cruising RPMs in high range back down to an acceptable level.

3 of the 80s we've set up with the Terrain Tamer OD gear sets for high range have done so for that reason. And all 3 owners are super happy with them.

Georg @ Valley Hybrids & Cruiser Brothers
 
Tricky math formula.

315/75-16 is actually 34.5" in diameter. We normally call it 35". Doesn't really matter. The OEM tire size is actually 31.16"

(34.5 x 4.11)/31.16 = 4.55
(34.5 x 4.10)/31.16 = 4.539 ~4.54

Now the x-case gear with 10% goes like this: 4.11 (final) x 1.1 = 4.521
Or 4.10 x 1.1 = 4.51

As you can see the results are really close together.

This is purely theoretical. Not accounting for any other factors, mass and friction. On the paper.

That's why in real life applications, people prefer 4.88 gears with 35" which is theoretically more underdrive due to real life obstacles not accounted for the math formula.

o_O Yep, I'm taking your word for it.
 
Exactly.

Re-gearing just the Tcase is simpler, faster and cheaper than doing the diffs, even if you change the high and low range gear sets.

Georg @ Valley Hybrids & Cruiser Brothers


Oh yeah?

You know what would a lot more challenging and fun as a project?






Doing my BMW diesel swap.
You will be begging me to do it and I will say no way.

Let's see who laughs last.
 
If you have already replaced the 4.11 gears in the differentials with 4.88s (running 35 inch tires) but would like to improve your crawl capabilties while also lowering your highway RPMs, can this transfer case solution be of assistance? If so, how would you set it up?

I think many of us would choose to take advantage of it if you could achieve the scenario above as it would create the ideal setup.

Please use the calculations above so we can understand it in mathematical terms.
 
Theory and practice will always be different due to the dynamic nature of the driving experience, driver's expectations, vehicle weight, geography, engine output (tired old motor with low compression), low rolling resistance tires, weight of the tires, wanted fuel economy, etc

The math will only give you an idea why and by about how much you need to regear.
All the above conditions will dictate how much plus/minus you need to be at.

Math shows us 4.55 is the optimal gear (on paper) for 35"s. However, most people prefer 4.88 due to many other factors unaccounted for in the math formula.

If you want some overdrive with your set of 35's and 4.88, then a taller gear in HI (numerically lower -- 0.9 for example) would be indicated for you. 0.9 x 4.88 = 4.392 which slightly lower than 4.55 (theoretical gear needed for 35" tires).
This way you will see lower RPMs at a given speed vs OEM 1:1 with 4.88.

Now, in order to improve crawl ratio, lower gear (numerically higher) you would want some lower gear in LO (higher numerically again than 2.488). For example 2.8 or 3.1 or 3.15 etc.

So lower (numerically) HI gear would put you in overdrive (lower RPM at a given speed) and a higher (numerically) LO gear would give you a better crawl capability -> higher RPM with lower speed.

For example first transmission gear is at 2.804; lower LO gear at 3.12 (Marlin gear) and 4.88 diff would give you 2.804 x 3.12 x 4.88 = 42.69 crawl ratio BUT!!!!! on 31" tires. You have 35" tires, so that ratio will be lower (numerically) by approximately 7 - 12% (depending on the actual tire size... not all 35"'s are the same).
 
All of this sound right to me. I drive Toyos which are pretty big 35s. What you have outlined would be a pretty nice setup. The high gear would keep the RPMs down which is a positive but this engine was really built to run at high RPMs. The crawler gear would be a more significant improvement. Even in low with the center diff and rear diff locked up, I have to sit on the brake hard to keep the truck from getting away on really steep down grades.
 
I think I have to ask my question again for those who joined the conversation a little later.
I got the point earlier, but this has turned again toward the overdrive requirement.

Why overdrive?
If anything I want 1.15 in Hi and 3.15 in Lo

Why under-drive high range?
Does it achieve something you don't achieve by slipping the tranny into a lower gear?

Edit.
So, I kept reading.
I can understand with 37"s the loss of torque is getting fairly significant.
In my 105 series, I had 35s, and taller diff gears (about 13% higher final drive). I definitely lacked torque for crawling in LO, and in High it did have an impact on driveability, but mostly it put highway RPM just below the sweet spot.
 
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A343F was made for reliability and longevity purposes at the expense of performance.
It has an inherent power loss to the wheels bigger than most transmission on the market.
The engine (1FZ-FE) is not a particularly powerful engine either.

Those two factors make for a lot to be desired. There is a huge gap in transmission gearing going from first to second, which drops the engine power significantly. If you get larger tires, it will further push the engine out of its power band, since every gear will be in overdrive constantly.

People have tried to remedy what Toyota never considered being a gross lack of power, by replacing differential gears and the ultimate sacrilege... GM V8.
Since the 60's was selling at the dealers, people asked Toyota for more power, in the form of a V8. They responded with a 4.5 I6.

In our quest for trying to squeeze in every ounce of power, after having all the wanted/necessary changes made to our cars (larger tires, heavy bumpers, armor), we found out there are only a few things we can actually alter in the power and drive train.
If you replace the engine and tranny all together, in some cases, you might not even want to bother with the OEM gears at all.






Disclamer
Replacing gear will not increase the trucks power. It will give us the perception the truck has more power because it brings it back to spec as the engineers intended it to be. It simply puts the engine back in it's natural power band.
 
Absolutely.

As mentioned in my post above, we have built and installed 5 of the HF2A cases with the Terrain Tamer OD high range gears and the 3.15:1 low range gear sets.

Georg @ Valley Hybrids & Cruiser Brothers

Will these gears work in the viscous couple case? HF2AV
 
@orangefj45
Not sure if you ever saw this thread.
Do you know if anything like this is feasible?
Do you know a transmission genius who can put some gears together and solve this mystery for us?

Essentially we want a 5 speed tranny which can be swapped and retain the 1FZ engine. A650, A750, A343 with more gears as TCI did with the GM 4L80.
Thanks.

5 speed auto
 
The OD high-range gears would be PERFECT to get my cruising RPMs with 315s and 4.10s back to that of the stock Escalade. Or.. 37s.

I have some decisions to make
 
How much does a hobbing machine cost?
A little off topic but you dont need a hob to make high quality gears. We have been reverse engineering NLA gears for spares orders in the rail industry and making them on our 5 axis Haas VF6. I design them in Solidworks and program in CAMWorks. Helical gears are easy compared to spiral bevels or double enveloping worms (which Ive also done.) The cutter we use for helicals is from Sandvik and they make a host of inserts in a bunch of different modules... in case anyone wanted to start doing low volume gear mfg. for LCs
Gears.JPG
 

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