Trailer advice for an idiot!?? (5 Viewers)

[ntsqd]

^^^
What he said. By the time you figure out how to do it, actually cut it up, and then piece it back together you could have started from scratch and will have fewer compromises in the finished project. BT, DT and learned from it, repeatedly because the first several times the lesson didn't stick.

 

[EOE_overland]

Honestly...I'd cut your losses, and get rid of that behemoth while you can. It looks to be in really nice shape, and if you bought it right, you may get your money back. I just can't see you spending 2 months cutting it apart, and ending up with a smaller trailer on a 3 ton frame...just seems like a lot of work to kinda get what you want.

I have a buddy in Clayton, DE that usually has good prices on M101A2's and M116A2's.....let me know.

^^^
What he said. By the time you figure out how to do it, actually cut it up, and then piece it back together you could have started from scratch and will have fewer compromises in the finished project. BT, DT and learned from it, repeatedly because the first several times the lesson didn't stick.

While I may partially agree with both of you, my goal isn't to end up with a camping trailer fully suited to my needs. I want a rugged cargo hauler that pulls well behind my 5.3 FJ62 for when I have more stuff than I can fit inside the truck. Can't remember how in depth I got before; forgive me for a repeat. It's main purpose will be to load medical supplies and equipment, disaster relief items (food, clothing, water, etc) for short or long trips. Most recently, I took a jammed-full cruiser load of stuff to Atlantic City and Toms River, NJ after Sandy. A reasonably-sized trailer would've nearly doubled my capacity. I also have plans to drive my truck to western Mex sometime this coming year, and depending on what I need to bring (mission/work trip) I may want to bring it there also.
A stock 416 is too small for what I need, not to mention too expensive. The M101A2 and M116A2 are bigger than the 416 and smaller than what I have, but are still too wide to pull long distances or on trails behind a 62 for my taste. So they will need mods too. Most of the 101A2s I've seen for sale are in need of a lot of work, which is why I dove into this one head over heels (M105- my mistake ). And as mentioned above, the M116A2s are also more expensive. So trying to cut my losses will not be great for the pocketbook.

If I start from scratch, I've got to start from scratch with everything (I know this seems quite obvious). Even if I strip off the axle, springs, and landing gear, I still have a completed, though overbuilt, frame. And a complete cargo box that needs cutting and rewelding. Even on my own, I think this falls into the realm of my slightly poor metal fab skills.
If I am able to sell the trailer now with the market selling from govliq at less than $200, even if I find a sucker I will lose almost as much as a new axle costs- going from what I saw linked earlier. So that will wait a while.
I has what I has, and it really will work out to be exactly what I was looking for in the first place.
I'm going to eventually see if anyone in my local club wants to lend a hand on a weekend. That will make things go fairly quickly.

I was outside this morning doing a little yard work and stopped for a while to look at the trailer after reading thru the "416HD" thread last night. From the pictures, I'm able to tell where the cuts were made. It should be pretty easy to mark out and make adjustments for the size I deicide to go with, if a little bigger. I also worked out how I want to mount the lights as I mentioned earlier with some tubing guards . I think it will turn out just fine

 

[greentruck]

Re your inquiry on bed size, I would not go smaller than 4'x8', preferably somewhat larger so you can load sheet goods. Since you're considering containerization, take that into consideration, too, in deciding what the optimum size that is larger than 4x8.

As for slicing and dicing, sure, it's not for the faint of heart, but if you're willing and have the tools & shop available, why not? This is nothing complex like some builds, so with a little planning should be straightforward. It's always better to have good clean parts to work with, so you could start with worse.

Since a new axle seems to be part of this, that's a factor to consider in making the mod.

 

[ntsqd]

I don't have any objection to cutting it up and making it what you want. I just think, from past experience, that the end result will be better if you start with a clean sheet. Up front cutting and welding looks like less work. It isn't. The time that you spend figuring out how to work around existing feature(s) that are too much work to change for the small amount of gain will likely be more than the time spent designing it from scratch.

My grandad built this trailer in 1957-58 and the current side & header boards in the late 90's. He built it from 2.5t G.I sideboards (or that is the family legend anyway). It is 4x7, but it's not exactly 4' wide and its not 8' long because the available panels wouldn't allow that size. Can't fit sheet goods in it except at a slight tilt and the bottom sheet can be a real bear to get out of being wedged in place.
It is a very interesting design with several unique for the era features. For instance, you're looking at the frame, the side panels are the frame - there are only two, small cross members. One supports the rear to the Ford Model A Torque Tube tongue and the plywood floor, the other just supports the floor which merely lays in the trailer and is easily replaced. It has sliders instead of shackles. Racing tech has only started using those in the last decade or so.
Were I going to build another trailer I would build it, from scratch, but very much like this in design. Largely it would be sheet metal panels cut & bent to fit. The only true box sections in the whole trailer are where the stake pockets are formed by the hat sections being welded to the inner panels. Not even the bottom perimeter is boxed. I'd love to have the time to build a couple of these trailers, but it just isn't going to happen anytime soon.

 

[EOE_overland]

I think I've got dimensions lined up the way I want them. Gonna be 64"wide and 77" long if I remember. Don't have the drawings I made in front of me.

I was asking around locally for some advice on the project, and it looks like a local machine shop wants to help me with the project.
As far as the project goes post-cargo box changes, I am looking to order an axle like one listed earlier in the thread.
My question now is: is it a good idea to use a set of 60 series springs on the trailer?? I can get a set of Ruff Stuff hangers cheaply and 60 springs are really easy to find. Would be nice to have an extra pair of 60 suspension gear to cannabalize if needed.
Are 60 springs gonna be a reasonable choice for this application??? I have an AAL kit for added height or spring stiffness as well. Good idea/bad idea????

 

[EOE_overland]

Talked my art teacher wifey into making me a sketch to wrap my head around it. This is phase one- box resize and jerry can holders on the front. Would like to use a little tubing to make the can mounts.

 

[Mark Harley]

For weight reduction you can replace the landing gear with a 2000# tongue jack, the safety chains with cables, remove a couple cross members and reduce the size of the bed. Post pictures of your work.

Or just go get this one. http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?102081-Hmmwv-trailer-frame

 

[ntsqd]

At some point it becomes less work to build it from scratch. I think you've passed that point.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Talked my art teacher wifey into making me a sketch to wrap my head around it. This is phase one- box resize and jerry can holders on the front. Would like to use a little tubing to make the can mounts.

Why don't you hold that trailer for a year or two until I buy a house and build your own trailer from scratch?

 

[EOE_overland]

At some point it becomes less work to build it from scratch. I think you've passed that point.

Maybe not quite yet. Gonna take it by the shop tomorrow. Since its use will be primarily for disaster relief, etc, my church and some local folks want to lend a hand. If the consenus is that I am continuing to live up to the thread title...then from scratch it may be. And I end up having to keep it for a couple years until Johnny realizes he's an idiot too .
I've been scouring the trailer threads here and at expo for dimension ideas and designs. If I have to go scratch, I like TLC Norway's trailer pictured in the unofficial trailer thread. He says its an older German mil trailer and is going to get me some dimensions when he can. From the looks, its longer than a 416. Something like 4x8ish?
So far I have not reached the point of no return

 

[EOE_overland]

I had typed a longer explanation for this, but then the lovely Macbook Air crashed and sent it off to unposted reply purgatory so I will keep it a little more to the point.

Went to the machine shop yesterday, kinda went the way I expected it. Getting much outside help for the work as described earlier is pretty much not going to happen. Not without considerable expense that certainly makes the project not worth it.

I have heard all the comments for cutting losses and starting from scratch, and may hit the reset button shortly on this. I did have one more epiphany this morning that I'm going to put in my pipe and puff on for a few days to see if it is all I think it is in my head.

Last try; M105 modded 2.0:
1) leave the floor intact, only cut the outsides to final dimensions
2) using my grinder (the only metal fab tool I feel confident in using), slowly remove the thinner sheet metal sides from the floor and wheel arches (weld bead on side-to-floor joints and arches are spot welded)
3) using the floor as my semi-suitable work surface, bring the sides in to the correct width and tack to the floor and front/back. narrow the front/back pieces and continue working to resize box on top of trailer floor.
4) after box is tacked and secured in correct size on top of floor, remove arches from floor. Move arches inward approx 3" on each side and recess arch cut in floor to match.
5) Cut outside edges of floor to final dimensions and attach box permanently.
6) Slide box forward on frame, reattach, and then deal with the axle stuff.

In my head, the reason this might work for me is that most of the work can be done with a grinder and a large pile of cutoff wheels. I don't have a garage yet, so scratch building a frame, etc would be really tough in the yard.
The great majority of welding is going to be sheet metal, which can be tackled with a 110V welder. That's really the only practical equipment I can get involved in at this point. If I have to scratch this and build my own trailer I can try to borrow shop space and welder and get a lot more help, but that will delay the project quite a while.
Any welding that is heavier or above my skill level, I can take to the shop to have completed. The cost of that will be minuscule compared to having a shop cut apart and reweld that floor.

Any advice on unforeseen obstacles that may not be passing thru the new trailer fantasy in my head are appreciated .

Another change I've made to the original design is with the wheel arches. I like the overall appearance of the M105/3/101 trailers with (essentially) flush arches, but I'm still a little partial to the protruding arches on the older trailers.
In order to 1) allow max useable interior space, 2) save a little work on more floor cutting, and 3) make the trailer a little more visually pleasing (to me) and easier to spot the tires...I'm going to slide the sidewalls in while leaving the arches protruding like an M416. This looks to be a lot easier than it sounds as the arches are only spot welded with tabs to the sides. It also means that I only have to remove 3" of floor width on each side into the profile of the arches, as opposed to more than a foot on each side if I leave the arches as is.
Track width will be roughly the same as the Fj62.

For weight shedding, I'm going to remove probably half or more of the heavy channel supports on 9" centers under the box . Landing gear will be gone too for sure. Box will probably be roughly 1/3 original size in the end, and frame will have a few feet lopped off the rear. And that massive axle, brakes and suspension will be gone.

And yes, this was less than I had originally wrote

 

[EOE_overland]

I finally got around it fooling with it and pulled it down tonight- do all the us mil trailers have a rear landing gear like the M105? I really like it, especially for the guys that like to put RTTs on top of their trailers! No wobble

 

[scrapdaddy]

The M101A1,A2,A3 series have them.

 

[EOE_overland]

The M101A1,A2,A3 series have them.

Thanks!

 

[EOE_overland]

Build questions for either way I go:
1) what is the best way to mark straight lines across the trailer? A magnetic laser level or similar that can light a vertical line?
2) Tailgates: is it worth it to fill holes and weld a rear wall instead of a tailgate, or is that less useful than leaving a hinged gate? Pros and cons of tailgate/solid rear wall?

My boy climbed up in it tonight and wanted me to take his picture. . Have some rough lines on the floor with a dry erase marker if they are visible.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I want to buy that trailer from you so bad.

 

[EOE_overland]

I want to buy that trailer from you so bad.

Thats because you havent seen one up close up yet .

Made a quick sketch of v2.0 and colored it in while my son was coloring at the table . Not as nice as my wife can do, but I think it gets it done.
Inside of box will be 4'w x 6 1/2'l. Not huge, but plenty of very useable space. And as mentioned earlier, will push arches outside of cargo box.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Man, those dimensions are real close to what my M416 was. You sure you don't want to just find one of those and sell me this?

 

[EOE_overland]

Man, those dimensions are real close to what my M416 was. You sure you don't want to just find one of those and sell me this?

Dude, did you miss the post earlier about picking these up for <$200. Get ya own. I'll save the bows and canvas for ya .

IIRC the 416 is 4x6 across the top edges, so the lower half of the box is smaller? I dont need a lot more space than that, but decent 416s are serious $.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Dude, did you miss the post earlier about picking these up for <$200. Get ya own. I'll save the bows and canvas for ya .

IIRC the 416 is 4x6 across the top edges, so the lower half of the box is smaller? I dont need a lot more space than that, but decent 416s are serious $.

What?!?? <$200? Well hell I will!