Trail and Street Coil over 40,

[dr_dobro]

I am gathering parts for my next build, and checking here if someone has any feedback about this topic. I would love to achieve something for both worlds, but seems very confusing when selecting shocks and springs, too much information, but not really results out there.

My plan is to stretch the frame up to a foot, along with the body, obtaining around 118" of WB. hopefully with the right spring rating, wont have too much body roll on the streets.

Any info would really help, as this will be the first time i will be stepping out of leaf springs.

D.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Oh man, here we go

First, decide on the overall suspension design. 1/4 elip, wishbone 3 link, triangulated 4 link, double-triangulated 4 link, etc. Furthermore, if you're linking both front and rear, or just one.

Next, decide how much room you'll have for the spring. Up front, vertical room isn't usually an issue, so you can run coilovers or ORI struts. In the rear, you'll have to run a cantilever setup if you want coilovers or ORI struts, cut into the bed to fit them vertically, or run traditional coils and shocks.

The suspension link numbers will determine how the truck rides on the street. You'll have to play with the 3 and 4 link calculators to see what lengths you'll be looking at:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gene...-version-my-4-link-analyzer-request-help.html

Finally, read a bunch of other build threads, not just here, but also on Pirate4x4.com. There is a TON of literature on automotive suspension design theory.

Good luck and maintain a build thread this time Daniel

 

[hman913]

Just curious, but why are you going so long with the wheelbase? I understand why you're stretching the frame and body for much needed storage. Is the intended WB based solely on how much you're planning to stretch? Tire size? I think you would want at least 40's so it doesn't hurt your break over angle too much.

Either way I'm excited to see what's in store.

 

[Mace]

My plan is to stretch the frame up to a foot, along with the body, obtaining around 118" of WB. hopefully with the right spring rating, wont have too much body roll on the streets.

Any info would really help, as this will be the first time i will be stepping out of leaf springs.

D.

Okay, body roll and handling are results of suspension design, not spring rating. Spring rating will vary the load capacity of the rig, and valving in the shocks will determine ride quality..

You are asking questions that nobody has the answer to. Without starting with a suspension design (actual hard numbers, not just graderball, 3 link, 4 link etc..) there is no way to know how the rig will handle.

118" wb is 28" longer than stock. Even with a foot longer frame stretch, your tires will be in front of the bumpers..

 

[dr_dobro]

All,

Thanks for the quick responses.
I must apologize with my WB (meant aprox 108") , lack of search and knowledge of coil overs.

I know some of these questions cant be answered, but really want to know how does a "linked" truck (should have said) performs on the streets?
In other words, Is it time and $ worth to have a truck with great articulating capabilities on the trail versus a standard coilover suspension that I can use to stroll around the neighborhood?

See, my plan is to sacrifice my current 40 and build this new project on a separate platform, I want to utilize body, engine and others form my current 40 in order to cut cost down, and the lack on NY space.

Johny, I will try to build a thread when the time comes.

oh, just received the dana 300.

Daniel

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I know some of these questions cant be answered, but really want to know how does a "linked" truck (should have said) performs on the streets?
In other words, Is it time and $ worth to have a truck with great articulating capabilities on the trail versus a standard coilover suspension that I can use to stroll around the neighborhood?

Think about your question this way. FZJ80 series land cruisers, and the majority of those afterwards, have linked suspensions and drive perfectly on road. The question shouldn't be "can linked trucks perform on road". The question should be "how do I make sure my custom linked suspension works well on the road?".

The answer comes in the form of research. Once you choose your overall design, then you have to play with the link numbers to get everything right. Anti-squat, roll center, etc.

 

[Tapage]

I'm dying to see more ORI's working on rigs .. their advantages appears to be well over coilovers . .

To the OP question ..

After lot's of reading you probably would end in a linked suspension .. I will be more daring and said 3 link on front and 4 link rear ..

Still lots to read ahead ..

 

[Mace]

Ori's are $$$$ that is why you won't see them on most street rigs..

 

[chicago]

I'm in on this one!!!
I've been thinking about this as well.
A vast majority of link suspensions are for trailered rigs. I'd really like to see something that will handle well on the street.
As much as I love leaf sprigs, seems to me that coils handle and ride so much better on the dirt roads and also perform very well on the rocks.
Just haven't seen too much for a streeted rig, sans the stock set ups mentioned above.

Get it awn, brother!!

K

 

[hman913]

Daniel, if you don't start cutting up your truck 'til after next spring/summer (or more importantly after Cruise Moab '15), you're more than welcome to drive mine to check out the links and coils. Good or bad design it's good for some first-hand experience/knowledge.

 

[Twisty]

Your plans sound pretty much like how I'm currently building my BJ42. To keep road manners on mine it runs a radius arm front (150mm longer arms then a 80 series) and triangulated 4 link rear. 2.5" Fox coilovers are used all round (14" travel front, 12" rear) and will run a Currie Antirock swaybar on the rear. The rest comes down to shock tuning and selecting the right coils.

I'm pretty confident the finished truck will ride and handle better then a 80 series landcruiser.

Here is a link to a good thread on pirate about coil selection/shock tuning.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-4x4-discussion/1074029-spring-tech-thread.html

Link to my buildup thread.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/hardcore-c...ild-stretched-linked-coiloverd-caged-etc.html

Piccy

 

[dr_dobro]

I'm in on this one!!!
I've been thinking about this as well.
A vast majority of link suspensions are for trailered rigs. I'd really like to see something that will handle well on the street.
As much as I love leaf sprigs, seems to me that coils handle and ride so much better on the dirt roads and also perform very well on the rocks.
Just haven't seen too much for a streeted rig, sans the stock set ups mentioned above.

I made a big mistake when I first built mine by saying I wont wheel it hard when she is all done. Now I want coil overs?

Daniel, if you don't start cutting up your truck 'til after next spring/summer (or more importantly after Cruise Moab '15), you're more than welcome to drive mine to check out the links and coils. Good or bad design it's good for some first-hand experience/knowledge.

Thanks Chris, It seems like we might be able to plan for the trip, since wife is enjoying the wheeling adventures.
Can I wheel your 40 as well?

 

[dr_dobro]

Your plans sound pretty much like how I'm currently building my BJ42. To keep road manners on mine it runs a radius arm front (150mm longer arms then a 80 series) and triangulated 4 link rear. 2.5" Fox coilovers are used all round (14" travel front, 12" rear) and will run a Currie Antirock swaybar on the rear. The rest comes down to shock tuning and selecting the right coils.

I'm pretty confident the finished truck will ride and handle better then a 80 series landcruiser.

Here is a link to a good thread on pirate about coil selection/shock tuning.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-4x4-discussion/1074029-spring-tech-thread.html

Link to my buildup thread.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/hardcore-c...ild-stretched-linked-coiloverd-caged-etc.html

Piccy

She is an art of beauty, nice work.
Like you said, its very much what I want to build. It looks like you extended the frame by the rear arch, and exactly on my plans. What type of steering box you ended with the rig? are you planing on Hydro assist?. I want to cut the frame shorter in front to expose the axle a bit more.

Daniel

 

[Isotel]

i recently redid my rig from a Spring over to 4/3 link.

Without question it drives better down the road than it used to.. it has a little more body roll than before, but i will be adding at least one sway bar to help out with that.

a note on spring rate: i went as light as possible with my rates, preloaded about 2" in order to get my ride height. 150/150 in the rear, 150/250 in the front.. this is more a setup for racing.. there is no perfect setup for trail/street.. its all a compromise for one thing over another

 

[Mace]

150/150??? That is astoundingly light!

 

[Letsgomoreplaces]

Dual sport coilover'd land cruisers

When we built the BJ73 I wanted to make sure it was daily drivable. We're running 3 link w/ panhard front and double triangulated rear 4 link. 12" coilovers w 300/200 rear and 300/150 front. 4" bumps Gen right JK rear sway bar.,
We did UA this year in it and this summer i've racked up 8000 miles on it, drive it every day 50 miles round trip. Drives better than stock for sure. Still need to do some tuning with the valving, and I'd like to find a way to fit a front swaybar.

If you'd like to get some ideas:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/70-series-tech/695188-jusdifferentials-project-inigo-87-bj73-landcruiser-lhd-spain.html

 

[AutoCraft Aus]

I ran a bronco PS box on my first one, variable ratio 2.2 turns lock to lock, upped the hyd force, fitted a steel top to replace the alloy one with roller bearing instead of a bush, and we made a pitman arm for it. I also fitted a Range Rover power steering pump, as it was easier to mount with a separate reservoir in the 45 engine bay. I also used the lower section of the Range Rover column, and had the Toyota section machined to fit into the collapsible section, so I could use the RR uni's and steering shaft under the bonnet, out to the box, mounted where the relay box normally is.

But that was in 1992, with the rear chassis chop, 35" tyres, 350 Chev conversion Highmount winch, and a custom tray, and we messed around with leaf spring trimming and grinding, longer shackles, and going through the Monroe catalogue, and welding on extra fittings to the shocks to extend the travel, and fitting more than one a corner back then, before shocks had shiny anodised parts, glossy stickers, and a set of 4 cost more than my original 45 series

 

[dr_dobro]

When we built the BJ73 I wanted to make sure it was daily drivable. We're running 3 link w/ panhard front and double triangulated rear 4 link. 12" coilovers w 300/200 rear and 300/150 front. 4" bumps Gen right JK rear sway bar.,
We did UA this year in it and this summer i've racked up 8000 miles on it, drive it every day 50 miles round trip. Drives better than stock for sure. Still need to do some tuning with the valving, and I'd like to find a way to fit a front swaybar.

Interesting build. I am pretty much running sort of same axles. I have acquired a hybrid FJ62 Front with Hellfire knuckles and a Full Floating 80 rear. I am going back and forth with the Math on the new platform, and really thinking stepping up to TSL SX2 42" on a 109 WB , but a little erie with the 9.5 R&P. I have the diffs allready built, and one of the reasons not going one tons, and they weight disadvantages.

Is there any strength difference (pinion wise) from a 100 series third to 80 or 60's?

 

[dr_dobro]

I ran a bronco PS box on my first one, variable ratio 2.2 turns lock to lock, upped the hyd force, fitted a steel top to replace the alloy one with roller bearing instead of a bush, and we made a pitman arm for it. I also fitted a Range Rover power steering pump, as it was easier to mount with a separate reservoir in the 45 engine bay. I also used the lower section of the Range Rover column, and had the Toyota section machined to fit into the collapsible section, so I could use the RR uni's and steering shaft under the bonnet, out to the box, mounted where the relay box normally is.

But that was in 1992, with the rear chassis chop, 35" tyres, 350 Chev conversion Highmount winch, and a custom tray, and we messed around with leaf spring trimming and grinding, longer shackles, and going through the Monroe catalogue, and welding on extra fittings to the shocks to extend the travel, and fitting more than one a corner back then, before shocks had shiny anodised parts, glossy stickers, and a set of 4 cost more than my original 45 series

I want to cut off as much as I can the front chassis overhang and move my current saginaw box out of the way, but haven't found a good solution for it yet. I am considering different boxes that are clear from tires and other interferences (like how tractors use them). But my plans are still on a piece of paper.

I guess Rovers are popular out there, but not so much here.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

The FJ60 steering box might work well for you.