Towing opinions/advice (1 Viewer)

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marcfj60

marcfj60

Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Threads
207
Messages
4,409
Location
Sandia Park, NM
Backstory: In April I decided to buy a travel trailer. It's a 2022 Jayco 166FBS: Single Axle, 4,200 lbs dry. GVWR is 4,995. I previously owned a Jayco Baja popup that I had bought from Ron 10 years ago. It's dry weight was about 2,500 lbs. I tow with my '99LC. The LC has AirLift 1000 airbags inside the stock rear coils which helps immensely with heavy cargo in the rear cargo area or a trailer with a heavy tongue weight. The LC was adequate to tow the pop up and I only encountered troubles with going a little slow going over long, high mountain passes like Coal Bank and Molas between Durango and Silverton. The newer, bigger, heavier trailer is a different story.

I've towed the new trailer which also has a weight distributing hitch with sway control 4 times now on 4 trips in NM and CO since June and come to the realization that my 100-series is simply not adequate to tow this trailer in the terrain of NM and CO. The early non-VVTI 4.7L puts out a whopping 230 hp and its mated to a 4 speed transmission. Then you add the weight of my LC, Metal Tech sliders, BIO rear bumper with swingout, Gamiviti roof rack and the 7% oversize KO2 tires I'm running (and no regear), the trailer is just too heavy. Going over Coal Bank and Molas pass I can't go over 20 mph and the engine is screaming with the trans in 1st gear. Driving back from the San Luis Valley last weekend I was on pretty level ground on hwy 285 between Alamosa and Tres Piedras and I couldn't even hold 55 mph due to a strong headwind. I'd shift into 2nd gear and get the rpms over 4,000, make it to 55 mph, then shift into 3rd and my speed would quickly reduce to 45 and lower until the trans downshifted to 2nd gear. And this just went on for the next 100 miles.

I need a better towing solution. I could try regearing and just reduce my top speed capability but would that be enough? I've heard about some retrofit I can do with the transfer case to get a 10% gear reduction coming out of it. I could add a turbo or supercharger to get more hp. Or I could buy a different vehicle that is better equipped to tow the heavier trailer. Current thoughts are to buy a Tundra with 5.7 but then I'm buying a truck that I really have no other use for. I've wondered if a GX460 could replace my 2011 4Runner and do all the things the 4R is used for but with 300 hp and 330 lbs-ft torque and a 6-speed transmission maybe do a better job. I've considered buying a 200-series as well but that's a pretty expensive solution. Maybe I just need to find a cheap used F150, but again, we're back to the buying a truck that I really don't need. One thing for certain is I'm not buying anything new because I'm too cheap to buy a new car with their insane prices. I like the idea of towing the trailer to a base camp and then being able to do off-road exploring in the area so getting a big truck does not appeal to me because of the size limitations on trails.

I guess I'm just looking for opinions and suggestions from the wisdom of the group.
 
I don't tow, so I'm pretty worthless there. I like the GX idea, or how about a Sequoia with the 5.7?
 
Supercharger is your ticket to HP. But you have to weigh the expense with the age of the vehicle and all other such considerations. I never regretted regearing both my 100 and 470 to 4.88 with 33" tires. Made towing my 2000 pound trailer more tolerable, but as mentioned above that will only take you so far.
I just brought home a GX 460. I'll let you know how that goes.
How was your vacation, otherwise?
 
You got a buddy with the GX your thinking of that would let you test drive with the camper?

Tough one.
You want an outfit that makes both the drive and camping/adventuring fun and low stress.
Sequoia might do that, depending on your needs.
 
juane said:
Supercharger is your ticket to HP. But you have to weigh the expense with the age of the vehicle and all other such considerations. I never regretted regearing both my 100 and 470 to 4.88 with 33" tires. Made towing my 2000 pound trailer more tolerable, but as mentioned above that will only take you so far.
I just brought home a GX 460. I'll let you know how that goes.
How was your vacation, otherwise?
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The trip was great. I can see why you want to get back to the San Luis Valley. We loved the area. I liked how it wasn't over-populated. And the sheer volume of different fishing opportunities was really appealing to me as well. We think it would be a great place for a retirement home but we also want to visit in other times of the year to know what all the seasons are like.
 
pappy said:
I don't tow, so I'm pretty worthless there. I like the GX idea, or how about a Sequoia with the 5.7?
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I have also contemplated this option. But Sequoias seem to be almost as rare as 200s and a lot of them turn out to be 2WD. I've been searching and reading posts in the GX460/150-series forum to see what people's experiences have been. It's not a slam dunk. The tow rating is 6,000 lbs. My 100 is rated to 6,500 (at sea level, on level ground, with stock 32" tire size, I'm assuming). On paper the GX460 has better numbers but it's a lighter, shorter vehicle than a 100. And most people that tow with them also install a supplemental transmission cooler and monitor trans temps real-time with OBDII/Bluetooth scanners. And the people towing stuff as heavy as my trailer seem to indicate it's really pushing the limits of the vehicle.
 
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juane said:
Supercharger is your ticket to HP. But you have to weigh the expense with the age of the vehicle and all other such considerations. I never regretted regearing both my 100 and 470 to 4.88 with 33" tires. Made towing my 2000 pound trailer more tolerable, but as mentioned above that will only take you so far.
I just brought home a GX 460. I'll let you know how that goes.
How was your vacation, otherwise?
Click to expand...
Paige (my daughter) just got her own '99 LC and it has 4.88 gears and 33s so I could do a test tow to see how differently it behaves. I'll be interested hear how your GX460 experience goes.
 
thegadgetguy said:
I don't think regearing alone is going to improve your situation much. It might shift your working rpm band around favorably in some situations if it's hunting between 2nd and 3rd, but it really sounds like you just don't have enough horsepower.

Unfortunately I don't have any other vehicle recommendations.
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If you boil it down to simplest terms, I just don't have enough hp. This could be overcome with enough gear reduction but that's not necessarily a good/workable solution to the problem.
 
Sounds like NM/CO thin air issues. Horsepower is air density through the engine. Calculate actual horsepower when your rig was working well and struggling. Check out Garrett Motion Turbo Tech 101, 102, and 103 pdf series. Take into account the physics of motion. This will provide you with turbo or supercharger setup parameters.
 
Marc, I have a similar situation but numbers are shifted a bit - 8.5K lb 200 series with 6K lb wet trailer with 800 lb tongue.

Here is some of my experiences that you may wish to consider:
  • I purchased 1K lb sway bars, based on the increased tongue weight, which helped return a more stable towing experience.
  • While I was having my truck regeared to 4.88 riding on 34" tires, I was able to rent a basic F150 and it towed my trailer extremely well.
    • Renting/borrowing various trucks and taking your trailer up the Jemez is a great way to feel what may work best in your situation..
  • Once I got my regeared truck back, towing the trailer was notably better, but the engine still struggles and it was nothing like the basic F150.
    • Like you, buying a beater truck doesn't work for me. I need my seat warmers and spending 50K for a tow vehicle didn't seem like a good option for me. Like you, there are many times where I will want the LC trail capabilities while returning to the turd box to camp.
  • Therefore, I plan to supercharge the truck and hope that I get closer to an acceptable towing experience.
  • Since I don't do the mechanical work myself, the cost for both regear and supercharger is pretty steep. (25K)

I made the decision, 8 years ago, to bite the bullet and swap out of my 100 for the 200. At that time, I knew that I wanted to build the truck and didn't feel good about putting tons of cash into the 100. Even though it was spendy, I am glad I made that decision. Now the 200's are scarce and dumping more cash into a more modern 200 seems less painful. 8 years ago, I jokey said - this is my beater. And today, that still remains my position.

What I didn't read in any responses, and I also experienced, is a much lighter trailer. When I drain all the holding tanks and unpack/ lighten the trailer, the towing experience improved significantly. Have you considered revisiting the trailer size? Can you find a smaller, lighter trailer that will meet your needs without the high investment in going to the 200 that may need lots of stuff?

You are welcome to grab my 200 after the supercharger and tow your trailer up NM4 to Jemez Falls campground to get a feel for what that option provides.. My plan is to have Dom at Elude install the supercharger during the off-camping season this winter.
 
Marc, I had the same issues when I had the two different trailers. The second one was a Jayco Feather Light 16 and was about 3.5k gvw. I remember driving up to Wyoming for the Eclipse with it, and aside from not being able to keep up with traffic, I think I was getting about 150 miles per tank. Thieves made it simple on me to make a decision with it.

Have you considered just switching to something like a Casita instead of changing things on the truck? I think that would drop the weight by almost half.
 
I towed my little trailer with my 99 lx and had the same problem. The wife's GX was quite a biit better. Now I have a Ford diesel pickup and will only tow the small tilt deck trailer with the Lexus cars anymore. The best fuel mileage I get from the gx is 15 empty and 7 towing the trailer, I get 17 mpg empty driving the 2001 Powerstroke if I baby it. If I pull my LX on the trailer with it I am at 14.
 
A 4500# brick on wheels demand a heavy tow rig with ballz, I think. Even a GX460 won't fit that bill, but a F250/GM2500/Dodge2500/Tundra5.7 would make for a more robust towing solution. It's not just the pulling power, but for me, it's the prevention of the "tail wagging the dog" in certain instances that should be avoided at all costs. Gusts of cross winds on our hwys are murderous while towing a large brick.

A 17' Casita type of a trailer can be pulled easily and safely with a GX460 or the 100 series. That 4sp transmission is awful for towing, I think. My 4runner with the V8 and 5sp is awesome for towing lightish trailers. The 6sp tranny in the 460 is divine for towing.

As Nab stated up above, you're losing 3% hp per 1,000' of elevation so a turbo/SC'ed rig would negate some of that. But, weight of tow rig needs to be matched with the trailer being towed for safety as we all know.

Let's face it Marc, you know you're going to upgrade to a better/heavier/bougie trailer as you get older. So, just get a tow rig that'll accomodate you aging and becoming more plush of a glamper. I see a fifth wheel in your future.
 
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Mauser said:
I towed my little trailer with my 99 lx and had the same problem. The wife's GX was quite a biit better. Now I have a Ford diesel pickup and will only tow the small tilt deck trailer with the Lexus cars anymore. The best fuel mileage I get from the gx is 15 empty and 7 towing the trailer, I get 17 mpg empty driving the 2001 Powerstroke if I baby it. If I pull my LX on the trailer with it I am at 14.
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So you get better fuel economy in the Ford towing the LX than the LX would get just driving itself?
 
slimbuddha said:
Marc, I had the same issues when I had the two different trailers. The second one was a Jayco Feather Light 16 and was about 3.5k gvw. I remember driving up to Wyoming for the Eclipse with it, and aside from not being able to keep up with traffic, I think I was getting about 150 miles per tank. Thieves made it simple on me to make a decision with it.

Have you considered just switching to something like a Casita instead of changing things on the truck? I think that would drop the weight by almost half.
Click to expand...
Yeah, we looked at various trailers of different configurations and sizes. The goal was to get something that was quick and easy to set up and leave camp, unlike the popup which required more work. I had been trying to find something in the sub 3,500# range but wasn't having much luck except for tiny trailers that didn't offer much creature comforts and/or were built like crap. When we looked at the one we eventually bought, it checked all the boxes on Danise's and my list of wants. I did a test tow with it around KAFB and it seemed like it would be ok. And if all I was ever doing was cruising on flat interstates it would be fine. It's the damn high mountains and big headwinds that are really killing it.

So Danise and I really like this trailer and it's built a little better than your average smaller, cheaper TT as it has VBL bonded aluminum/fiberglass "Azdel" wall and floor panels. It's still a trailer and they're all built poorly but this one should last a little longer than the average entry level trailer in the ~20' single axle class. The box is 16.5' and the total length is about 20'. It's funny that it's called a Jayco JayFeather Micro but it's still kind of a heavy pig for its size.
 
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