Because you can now bring alignment into spec, I would guess you might save on your tire wear too?
Total Chaos vs Slee UCA's
- Thread starter DJWUZJ
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RE: Tire wear:
I never had an issue, post lift, with OEM and then Carl's original front UCA with camber and toe in settings. OEM was significantly lacking caster adjustment/correction whereas Carl's was almost able to get back to factory caster spec. And now my custom one off arms allow as much caster as I want relative to tire to the rear side of the front fender clearance (uncut fender).
Ideally it would be valuable to have a matching set of front UCA and LCA to allow good caster correction and tire positioning relative to the wheel well...and to a lesser degree the approach angle.
I never had an issue, post lift, with OEM and then Carl's original front UCA with camber and toe in settings. OEM was significantly lacking caster adjustment/correction whereas Carl's was almost able to get back to factory caster spec. And now my custom one off arms allow as much caster as I want relative to tire to the rear side of the front fender clearance (uncut fender).
Ideally it would be valuable to have a matching set of front UCA and LCA to allow good caster correction and tire positioning relative to the wheel well...and to a lesser degree the approach angle.
Sure, If you throw in a 30" or 40" bar
lol. I talked with metal tech the other day and LT said I had to remove them to grease them...unacceptable. The grease fittings don't work, you have to loosen the cam bolts and risk loosing your alignment. Sorry, I just don't have time to remove the entire front end of my truck to apply some grease.
^^^Or worse... You have a shop that cant get the alignment right and have to rebuild them after 9 months....
No bit I might be interested in buying your TC UCAs at a deeply discounted price, providing you some of the money toward some SPC UCAs...
Are you sure it's not the same deal with the SPC? Not saying it is but they appear to be using urethane bushings without zirks. It may be that they will suffer the same squeak and lube issues with the competing inboards unless I'm missing something.
I have 2 sets of TC UCA's and I've never disassembled to lube either set. On install I made sure all the mold flash was well trimmed to keep from blocking the grease paths and then I greased completely. Now for upkeep I just hit the zirks with a few strokes of superlube from the mini gun, enough that the urethane just starts to swell indicating some positive grease pressure in there. Then I drive it and the swelling goes down as the grease moves around. I do this often like every 1-2 kmi and I've never had a squeak, works just fine for me. YMMV
What type of grease gun do you have? What type of grease and are you loosening the bolts? I will try again today to use the fittings.
No. However I didn't like how the front end handled at highway speeds with ~1.5 degrees of caster which is all we could get with the OEM upper arms and ~21.5" of lift (wheel center to fender lip). The effect of not enough caster made the front end "nervous" and unsettled at highway speeds.
The original arms from Carl's first production batch got me another ~.5 degrees of caster...which helped. Currently I'm running ~3.75 degrees of caster and the front end feels very, very nice. This is the most caster I can run with 1" wheel spacers...as I get just a little lower front fender to tire rub...a little fender surgery is in order next
If the new SPC result in up to 4 degrees of caster correction without tweaking the inner bushings this would be very ideal. Hopefully they've remedied the issue they once had with in/out direction (think camber) slip at the threaded stud (ball joint side) and the arm interface.
For all things poly/urethane lube use Energy Suspension's lube or similar for assembly.
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Nick,
When I installed mine the first time, I had the same issue as you with the Zirks not working. It is all part of the poor design IMHO. When I pulled everything apart, due to the problems getting them aligned correctly, one side was really badly deteriorated/chewed up by the inboard mounts. So, I called TC and talked with them and ordered new bushings for both sides. According to TC:
Since then, I have followed this and had no problems. I get my truck aligned once a year right now and grease these then get the alignment. Also, when I installed these, I followed Spressoman's advice (above) and used this grease to lube everything the first time:
http://www.jegs.com/i/Energy+Suspen...&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CKGxg8KO57oCFaN_QgodJ3EATw
It works great. Now I just hit it with the Superlube for periodic maintenance. On My rig the uniball seems to be the one that squeaks more often... Just hit it with the spray http://www2.dupont.com/Consumer_Lubricants/en_US/products/silicone.html on top and bottom.
Spresso also told me that when he ran this design of UCA he found himself having to lube things multiple times on a trip. I have not had that issue. But, he hits the trails way more often than I do. So, you may find the same. The Slee option if turns out to be more reliable (I.e. doesnt need the regular maintenance) and get alignment within spec every time, they will be a much better or really the only solution.
However (for those reading), Dont buy TC or JD UCA's for promises of getting caster back within spec. Ask around and you will find more have been unsuccessful than have succeeded in that endeavor. 99.9% of users do not need what these provide. Slee's may prove to be the solution most are looking for and I hope they do. Others are not for now.
When I got these, I did so to go as fast as possible in the desert. And they are great for that. There is nothing like driving 60-70+ mph in the desert. But, both kids are getting car sick now when I go too fast and find myself going much much slower. If I were buying a new suspension right now, I would stick to OEM uppers and a OME/Billstien shock combination. The added down travel isnt as huge of a deal as everyone thinks it is. I am not going any place with it that I couldnt go before. The gain is most noticeable at speed to me. The trade-offs for a remote res shock and TC UCA are not worth it for technical or slower speeds. It is a very harsh combination for DD duty. Especially with the crappy roads here in San Diego. The idea of low or zero maintenance is much more appealing to me. Of course others will have differing opinions on this. Hopefully some will post. It will provide food for thought to those thinking of going this route.
If after time the Slee solution proves as reliable as I am hoping they do. Next time I need to rebuild my TC arms, I will be replacing them with the Slee. If not, I will probably go back to OEM.
When I installed mine the first time, I had the same issue as you with the Zirks not working. It is all part of the poor design IMHO. When I pulled everything apart, due to the problems getting them aligned correctly, one side was really badly deteriorated/chewed up by the inboard mounts. So, I called TC and talked with them and ordered new bushings for both sides. According to TC:
- You should only use super lube grease.
- When you grease them, mark your cams with a sharpie in case the cams move.
- Loosen one cam, give about two pumps of grease. Re-torque
- loosen other cam, repeat
- repeat for other side
Since then, I have followed this and had no problems. I get my truck aligned once a year right now and grease these then get the alignment. Also, when I installed these, I followed Spressoman's advice (above) and used this grease to lube everything the first time:
http://www.jegs.com/i/Energy+Suspen...&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CKGxg8KO57oCFaN_QgodJ3EATw
It works great. Now I just hit it with the Superlube for periodic maintenance. On My rig the uniball seems to be the one that squeaks more often... Just hit it with the spray http://www2.dupont.com/Consumer_Lubricants/en_US/products/silicone.html on top and bottom.
Spresso also told me that when he ran this design of UCA he found himself having to lube things multiple times on a trip. I have not had that issue. But, he hits the trails way more often than I do. So, you may find the same. The Slee option if turns out to be more reliable (I.e. doesnt need the regular maintenance) and get alignment within spec every time, they will be a much better or really the only solution.
However (for those reading), Dont buy TC or JD UCA's for promises of getting caster back within spec. Ask around and you will find more have been unsuccessful than have succeeded in that endeavor. 99.9% of users do not need what these provide. Slee's may prove to be the solution most are looking for and I hope they do. Others are not for now.
When I got these, I did so to go as fast as possible in the desert. And they are great for that. There is nothing like driving 60-70+ mph in the desert. But, both kids are getting car sick now when I go too fast and find myself going much much slower. If I were buying a new suspension right now, I would stick to OEM uppers and a OME/Billstien shock combination. The added down travel isnt as huge of a deal as everyone thinks it is. I am not going any place with it that I couldnt go before. The gain is most noticeable at speed to me. The trade-offs for a remote res shock and TC UCA are not worth it for technical or slower speeds. It is a very harsh combination for DD duty. Especially with the crappy roads here in San Diego. The idea of low or zero maintenance is much more appealing to me. Of course others will have differing opinions on this. Hopefully some will post. It will provide food for thought to those thinking of going this route.
If after time the Slee solution proves as reliable as I am hoping they do. Next time I need to rebuild my TC arms, I will be replacing them with the Slee. If not, I will probably go back to OEM.
Also wanted to add, When I rebuilt mine, I cleaned up the groves in the new bushings so the grease would flow better...
This thing:
I use superlube for re-fills. I haven't loosened the bolts on either truck.
I don't want to derail this thread, but I agree with Mxdrnks on the harsh ride some of the higher end after market shocks provide. I'm hoping the new Fox reservoir shocks along with SPC's UCA will be the holly grail when it comes to suspension setup on a 100 series. Time will tell and I'm sure this will not put and end to the debate of which UCA is best.
The urethane bushings need to be completely greased prior to install. Use the red Japanese grease. It should look like a murder scene when you're done. Use a press or large vise to get the bushings in tight so they'll fit into the mounts. This is just how that style of bushing work.
2000UZJ, you can mark the alignment with a sharpie or paint pen prior to removal and get it right back to where you started. The sleeved ball joint mount comes out of the steering knuckle very easy (hopefully you put a ton of anit-seize on it). An R&R would be a pretty quick job and once done should give you a long service interval and won't take any more time than an SPC swap. Plus it won't waste your money!
I haven't tried hooking my grease gun up yet to see how she flows. It is concerning that you can't pump grease into the joint. They do have channels in them specifically to allow the grease to flow and as long as you loosen the bolt first to allow the bushing to not seal against the mount it 'should' work. I'll have to try it this weekend just to see.
A buddy is also running the TC arms on a 120 and he and I both have had great, noise and trouble-free results.
2000UZJ, you can mark the alignment with a sharpie or paint pen prior to removal and get it right back to where you started. The sleeved ball joint mount comes out of the steering knuckle very easy (hopefully you put a ton of anit-seize on it). An R&R would be a pretty quick job and once done should give you a long service interval and won't take any more time than an SPC swap. Plus it won't waste your money!
I haven't tried hooking my grease gun up yet to see how she flows. It is concerning that you can't pump grease into the joint. They do have channels in them specifically to allow the grease to flow and as long as you loosen the bolt first to allow the bushing to not seal against the mount it 'should' work. I'll have to try it this weekend just to see.
A buddy is also running the TC arms on a 120 and he and I both have had great, noise and trouble-free results.
sleeoffroad
Supporting Vendor
The bushings are SpecRide proprietary to SPC and they have formulated the composition. They are not the same as generic urethane bushings. They should be greased with the supplied grease and they should not need any other service during the lift of the product. The same applies to the ball joint. It is pre-greased and should not need any service.
Also due to the adjustment options the arms should be installed as per the instructions and it is possible to get much less "pre-load" on the bushings eliminating wear on the bushings.
Here is a copy of the install instructions:
http://sleeoffroad.com/common_files/spc_25455.pdf
Also due to the adjustment options the arms should be installed as per the instructions and it is possible to get much less "pre-load" on the bushings eliminating wear on the bushings.
Here is a copy of the install instructions:
http://sleeoffroad.com/common_files/spc_25455.pdf
Christo,
Thanks for adding some facts to our speculations.
The instructions look pretty good, it's great to see the caster range available with each setting spelled out. It looks like it should be easy to choose a caster setting and lock it in. Also nice to see one side of the busing does in fact bare against a solid washer. This all looks great.
Thanks for adding some facts to our speculations.
The instructions look pretty good, it's great to see the caster range available with each setting spelled out. It looks like it should be easy to choose a caster setting and lock it in. Also nice to see one side of the busing does in fact bare against a solid washer. This all looks great.
Yes. Thanks Christo! Ill keep my eye on these for when it is time to rebuild my tc arms.
