Timing belt failure, 07 LC
- Thread starter studawg
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1- pull the truck in
2- remove the cover
3- undo coil packs
4- remove spark plugs
5- scope all cylinders
I'd say that's a good 8 hours of labor
I jest, I jest... Seriously, my shop charged me an hour to scope 1 cylinder. It probably took less than that but oh well. I think someone experienced, could do all 8 in 2-3 hours though. Does the Indy have a scope?
the dealer might have scoped it, but an indie likely wouldn't unless you asked or a very standup shop.
maybe take it back to the dealer, they didn't do that much wrong they just didnt offer to replace a part when they should have, at least they work on toyota v8's all day long and are less likely to mess up actually installing the parts and usually they wont cause further damage, well at least to the engine.. your pocketbook is another matter.
maybe if it was a n on vvti I would say slap a belt on it and see what happens, but with the vvti engine, enough have stories of valve damage to make it worth taking a peak at the valves. the labor on a timing belt is like half the labor on pulling the heads which has now gone to waste.
maybe take it back to the dealer, they didn't do that much wrong they just didnt offer to replace a part when they should have, at least they work on toyota v8's all day long and are less likely to mess up actually installing the parts and usually they wont cause further damage, well at least to the engine.. your pocketbook is another matter.
maybe if it was a n on vvti I would say slap a belt on it and see what happens, but with the vvti engine, enough have stories of valve damage to make it worth taking a peak at the valves. the labor on a timing belt is like half the labor on pulling the heads which has now gone to waste.
I have a scope I bought at Home Depot fairly decent one, the problem is though I would think is you would only be able to see the piston head unless there was significant scaring you would't be able to see anything. You would need a special scope with a camera facing the scope shaft to inspect the valves. Anyway I do not disagree that it would of been worth the effort at least trying. Taking the head off would be the best way to actually be certain.
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all it takes is an angled mirror you put on the end of the scope head to see the valves...
Yeah mine came with that attachment but its too big for a spark plug hole.
- Thread starter
- #87
So apparently my uncle is friends with the owner of the Lexus dealer and he called him and then decided to have the car taken back to them. I was able to get the indy to come off a few hundred bucks for their "work". At least we will be able to reuse the parts that they put on, I guess. So we are done with them and they are now in the past. I can't necessarily recommend them for any serious auto repairs though, obviously.
So its now at the Lexus dealer. My uncle asked me to call them and speak to the guy he's dealing with there. The mechanic told him this morning that he wasnt sure if he trusted a machine shop to do the heads correctly and that it may be more than just the top end, may also be damage to the lower end. Im not even sure, and my uncle didnt know, if they have take the heads off or if they had torn into the engine at all yet. Mechanic also said that it might make more sense to just put in a whole new engine, and the only used one he can find is one with 220k miles on it. Said a new one would be $10k. Mechanic is leaning towards putting in new motor.
At this point, we've gotten no assurances from them that they will have any grace on the final bill.
I wanted to post an update here to get some input and am going to talk to my toyota guru and get some other opinions before I call the tech at Lexus.
Thoughts?
So its now at the Lexus dealer. My uncle asked me to call them and speak to the guy he's dealing with there. The mechanic told him this morning that he wasnt sure if he trusted a machine shop to do the heads correctly and that it may be more than just the top end, may also be damage to the lower end. Im not even sure, and my uncle didnt know, if they have take the heads off or if they had torn into the engine at all yet. Mechanic also said that it might make more sense to just put in a whole new engine, and the only used one he can find is one with 220k miles on it. Said a new one would be $10k. Mechanic is leaning towards putting in new motor.
At this point, we've gotten no assurances from them that they will have any grace on the final bill.
I wanted to post an update here to get some input and am going to talk to my toyota guru and get some other opinions before I call the tech at Lexus.
Thoughts?
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Not sure how far you want to go to save your uncle some cash, there is a mud user selling a drive train and engine in AL. Truck rolled but he said truck is mechanically intact.
See here: For Sale: - 1999 land cruiser 4.7l v8 conversion alabama
If it was me, I would replace the entire engine with either a low millage or a well maintained one. In the end it will probably be a cheaper fix and you have the opportunity to do all the proper maintenance before dropping it very easily. I've never liked messing with machining heads and valves on two bank engines, seems like things could go wrong if not done by an expert. You may end up paying more if something is not done right. Dropping in an engine can be done by most people with out a whole lot of precision skills. 2 cents.
See here: For Sale: - 1999 land cruiser 4.7l v8 conversion alabama
If it was me, I would replace the entire engine with either a low millage or a well maintained one. In the end it will probably be a cheaper fix and you have the opportunity to do all the proper maintenance before dropping it very easily. I've never liked messing with machining heads and valves on two bank engines, seems like things could go wrong if not done by an expert. You may end up paying more if something is not done right. Dropping in an engine can be done by most people with out a whole lot of precision skills. 2 cents.
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- Thread starter
- #89
I appreciate that input. Im guessing we would probably need to go with an 06+ because of the VVT and electronic throttle control being compatible with the ECU.
- Thread starter
- #90
Wikipedia lists these vehicles as having the updated 2UZ:
Another 2UZ-FE variation adds VVT-i and electronic throttle control.
Applications:[6]
(EDIT: obviously we didnt get the 2UZ in the LC 200 in the US.)
EDIT AGAIN: I may be getting ahead of myself here, should probably be sure they have opened it up a little to see what damage was actually caused before spending any time going down this road.
Another 2UZ-FE variation adds VVT-i and electronic throttle control.
Applications:[6]
- 2005–2009 Lexus GX 470
- 2006–2007 Lexus LX 470
- 2005–2009 Toyota 4Runner
- 2006–2011 Toyota Land Cruiser
- 2005–2009 Toyota Tundra
- 2005–2009 Toyota Sequoia
(EDIT: obviously we didnt get the 2UZ in the LC 200 in the US.)
EDIT AGAIN: I may be getting ahead of myself here, should probably be sure they have opened it up a little to see what damage was actually caused before spending any time going down this road.
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They will work, but unless it comes right out of a LC you may or may not need a bit of adjustments, nothing major (engine mounts etc) but some may be needed. I read someone replacing one with one out of a Sequoia for a LC100. Also you can sell the scrapped engine for some cash, or part it out whatever good is left on it.
There is another engine for sale here on mud, I can't seem to find it right now but keep looking there is someone selling one on a crate with a cracked valve cover, also a guy who thought he needed a new engine but ended up not needing one. He bought a used one and had it shipped, valve cover was damaged during shipping but he has pics of it showing no other damage. So its for sale here somewhere, I don't remember the year.
Found it for you: For Sale: - 2002 LX470 2UZ-FE Engine with 110K miles
Unfortunately its not the VVT.
Unfortunately its not the VVT.
Interested in what the Lexus dealership finds! Please report back after they have a chance to check it out. Sending it to them was definitely the right decision.
Brief account of my recent problem: My recent multiple misfire issue (cylinders 2,4,6,8) was misdiagnosed by 2 local import car speciality shops. One shop told me I needed another engine and the other told me the misfire problem was electrical and I needed another ECU / computer. My research lead me to believe otherwise so I ended up taking it away from the local shops and took it to Toyota after speaking to their 20yr veteran master tech. A brief phone call with him suggested what I believed was the issue (timing off on the passenger side bank) all along and had told both import shops I dealt with previously. Toyota confirmed the timing problem the following business day by 10am and had my truck fixed 1 business day after I dropped it off. In my case it was a tough lesson learned but a good one. "Stealership" horror stories were not my experience at all. My local Toyota dealership customer service was excellent, prices very reasonable and I felt like the maintenance performed was done by true pros that work on these engines regularly. My 99 Cruiser has 228K and is running like a brand new truck right now.
The Leuxs dealership will get your uncle fixed! Give them a day to assess the situation and he may be better off than you think right now!
Brief account of my recent problem: My recent multiple misfire issue (cylinders 2,4,6,8) was misdiagnosed by 2 local import car speciality shops. One shop told me I needed another engine and the other told me the misfire problem was electrical and I needed another ECU / computer. My research lead me to believe otherwise so I ended up taking it away from the local shops and took it to Toyota after speaking to their 20yr veteran master tech. A brief phone call with him suggested what I believed was the issue (timing off on the passenger side bank) all along and had told both import shops I dealt with previously. Toyota confirmed the timing problem the following business day by 10am and had my truck fixed 1 business day after I dropped it off. In my case it was a tough lesson learned but a good one. "Stealership" horror stories were not my experience at all. My local Toyota dealership customer service was excellent, prices very reasonable and I felt like the maintenance performed was done by true pros that work on these engines regularly. My 99 Cruiser has 228K and is running like a brand new truck right now.
The Leuxs dealership will get your uncle fixed! Give them a day to assess the situation and he may be better off than you think right now!
- Thread starter
- #95
Just spoke to the tech up there, I think he may be a service advisor actually. Apparently they tried cranking it again, and it actually ran for a few seconds he said but made a bunch of bad noises. Says they are sure there is piston damage. He is making his suggestions before thy have pulled the heads and based on the fact that they will not machine heads, that the last one they did "cost them $20k". If they pull the heads they want to put new ones on, priced at $1115 each. I asked him how much to pull the heads, he's calling me back on that one. Sounds to me like a dealership just trying to cover themselves, while making the most money for the least amount of work at the same time. A win-win-win for them!
By the way, anyone know how many labor hours they should charge to pull heads? My toyo guy who used to be a dealer tech told me about 2. He also said a motor swap should be 17. Lexus is quoting me 27+++ for that.
By the way, anyone know how many labor hours they should charge to pull heads? My toyo guy who used to be a dealer tech told me about 2. He also said a motor swap should be 17. Lexus is quoting me 27+++ for that.
When they said the head replacement was $1115 for each does that include all the internals? valves etc.. If not I would not recommend that. Valves overtime develop a form special to that specific head as other parts do, you would not want to re-use parts from the old head. Engine replacement is a better option and no way that takes 27 hours of labor.
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- #98
Yeah I found those engines on car-part within 5 minutes of that my uncle first telling me they said that. After talking to the SA, he said they can't use those engines, gotta have a particular warranty, blah blah blah.....
They said they want 10.5 hours and $1300 to tear it down. I said "to pull the heads"? He said they wouldn't do just that that they will only do a complete tear down. I brought up the failure to suggest replacing the water pump at 90k, he said he would tear it down for no charge but then we only have two options, replace the heads with new, or replace the engine, with one from their seemingly very limited amount of suppliers. Im not going to give them an open authorization like that.
Pretty sure I know what Im going to do and it doesn't involve this dealership. Open to any suggestions though based on this info.....
They said they want 10.5 hours and $1300 to tear it down. I said "to pull the heads"? He said they wouldn't do just that that they will only do a complete tear down. I brought up the failure to suggest replacing the water pump at 90k, he said he would tear it down for no charge but then we only have two options, replace the heads with new, or replace the engine, with one from their seemingly very limited amount of suppliers. Im not going to give them an open authorization like that.
Pretty sure I know what Im going to do and it doesn't involve this dealership. Open to any suggestions though based on this info.....
Wow, doesnt sound like they want to make anything right at all. Finding a decent indi who will order and use one of the many motors available seems like its going to be your least painful ways but unfortunately it seems the car would have to travel a reasonable distance to get to one.
I second Ali. Your best option is to find a reputable shop that will do the motor swap. Some shops have their own resource for rebuilt/used engines at discount prices to them. Several shops will give you a warranty on install and engine on used/rebuilt engines. Dealers will not install used engines usually.
