Timing Belt Failed and Took Out Engine (1 Viewer)

[mister bean]

Okay, updates.

Talking to the shop it's at now:
* They recommended engine vs head for a couple reasons. One, they didn't want to go tearing into the current engine and then discover it needs more than just a head. Two, they said they don't tend to trust used heads because they've usually come off for a reason, so they use new, and cost for that is pretty close to the cost of putting in a used engine with new timing system.
* I think some additional diagnosis beyond discovering the timing belt was broken might be in order, so I'm a bit disappointed they didn't suggest that up front. Also surprised, the other work they said didn't need to be done was a head gasket replacement. So not super cheap either.

I also talked to Robbie:
* He said while it is an interference engine, like others here have said, there often isn't additional damage.
* He's pretty busy, and won't have time to do much with it for a while, but he doesn't think engine replacement is the first thing we should be looking at.

So I think what I'm going to do is try to get it over to Robbie's shop so that he can work on it when he has a chance. He is about a mile away from where it is now. Anyone in the Boulder area want to help pull it over? I'll happily provide a case of beer or something. My other cars are cars, and wouldn't be much good for towing it.

 

[46/71 Hybrid]

Your decision to not use the current shop is a good one;

1) It's pretty simple to pull the head and see if there are marks on top of the pistons from contact with valves. If there aren't any marks, there are 0 reasons to go into the engine any further. Their logic is faulty and unless I'm sorely mistaken, I can't think of any reasons to dig further into an engine that doesn't have impact marks on the piston if you're dealing with a timing belt issue.

2) Any machine shop can verify that a used head is flat, the valve guides are good, the valve stems are straight, the seats are fine, and it's ready to be used. Chevy 350 guys and Ford 6.0 guys swap heads all the time, the first application is typically a racing/horsepower engine and the second is a diesel with big torque numbers. Semi's also go with used heads all the time. Again, their logic is faulty since engine builders will swap heads all the time and any competent engine machine shop can tell if they're good.

3) Get Good Sam Platinum +, it's about $115 for a first time subscriber, will cover all of your cars, trucks, and extended family's stuff too, and will cover you for the towing with no deductible. They covered a $1500 RV tow for me and since then, I've recommended them without any hesitation. With the Platinum+, you're good for 100 miles to the location of your choice and there's no deductible.

4) If you get a FSM and ask folks here, you could pull the head yourself and check for marks. Take lots of pictures, ziploc the bolts, and if you're not comfortable putting it all back together, at least some of the work will be completed for the mechanic of your choosing. I wish I was close to you, we could knock the diagnosis out fairly quickly.

5) Don't use your current shop....I don't think we can say that enough.

 

[joe dirt]

Mister bean you have pm

 

[silverbullitt]

Timing belt is actually not hard to do. Only hard part was getting the radiator out. Lol. Once you remove the covers & accessories. Just line the timing marks as indicated on the cam sprocket with the cover. Take off the tensioner & put the new belt on & reverse the putting back on the accessories. Also change the waterpump.

 

[BullElk]

Mine broke as well, NO DAMAGE to the heads
As others have said take it to a different shop

What was your mileage? Did belt look worn?

 

[vipergrhd]

My gut tells me to install a new belt and pulleys and perform a true leak down and compression test prior to firing engine,if all looks good then fire it up and see how it runs. I have seen interference engines survive catastrophic failure you have to give it a chance prior to just tossing it as a boat anchor. just my 2 pennies.

 

[ponytl]

To repeat what others have said.... better than 90% chance it's just the belt... and very little chance it did any internal engine damage... 1st course of action... if it was me... buy a $150 kit off ebay... water pump, pulleys, tensioner, Timing belt, and install it... or have it installed... I'd bet you'd be up and running for less than $600 or a day of your time...

worst case if you really need a new engine... any toyota 4.7 will do... 100k engines from salvage yards are $1000 or less
you will need your LC oil pan and oil filter housing and exhaust manifolds and maybe your throttle body... it is about as easy of an engine remove and replace as you will get... you will want to do the water pump and timing belt with the new engine out... it's a 30 min-1hr job when the engine is out... it really is that simple.... but max you should be out is maybe $2500 all in... belts hoses fluids ect... not $6k... sure is easy to do your rack bushings with the engine out...

good luck
p

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

What caused the break? Do all the pullys move freely? Any oil or water on the belt?

 

[silverbullitt]

What was your mileage? Did belt look worn?

Nope. Still looked good like I could've driven maybe 7-8k more miles on. I did have dried up coolant chunks outside the bottom of the waterpump. So it's good I changed it

 

[mister bean]

Thanks again for all the suggestions everyone. I'm going to review with Robbie, but it does sound like replacing the timing belt may be a good place to start here.

Normally I would consider tackling this on my own as it sounds doable. But I'm already short on time with a new job, trying to finish remodeling a bedroom and bathroom (with a bunch of other projects quickly piling up behind that), and have a two year old running around.

I'll post again when I know more.

 

[mister bean]

Alright, back with updates. It's not as bad as it could be, but it's not good.

Robbie put a borescope in and the pistons looked good. So next step was to do a partial timing belt change and a compression test. And that's where things turn not so good. Driver's side cylinder #1 has low compression at 120 psi, and #2 has sticking valves and varied between 50 and 75. So we're looking at a head job, and those don't come cheap (approaching $4k if you include the time that's already been put into it).

For what it's worth, the timing belt looked pretty bad. He said there was a possibility that it had been in there for 60k miles (as I'd been led to believe) but 160k was probably more likely. Interestingly, the ad below mentions tbelt change done at 95k. So I'm not sure what to think. He said the belt was made in China, so perhaps just not a good quality one.

So, there's the question of whether it's worth putting the money into it, or sell as is/part it out. Normally it might be worth it, but it is this one here - 1999 UZJ100, 115K, $8k obo, Salvage Title - that has a salvage title, and a little extra body damage that it picked up between then and now.

 

[DirtDawg]

I would just swap in another used 4.7 and call it good. They can be had for cheap and are plentiful (Tundra, sequoia, LC)

 

[camino70]

#1 and #2 are low, what are the rest? I'd search through ponytl's posts, he's worked some magic on stuck valves. But wouldn't a stuck valve render 0 psi?
I'd put my effort there then probably button it back up and drive it while searching for a used 4.7 (I think arcteryx, vendor here, has one ready to ship).