Ticking noise at cold start 12H-T
- Thread starter LenaW
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mine does the same thing when cold but goes away soon after oil pressure has come up and some temp in the engine (hj n61) and my brothers is the same (also hj61) his has 300000kms and mine just over 400000kms. all i can say is regular oil and filter changes, every 5000km. after all it is just an old school oil burner, albeit a good one!
Could always be valve or two out of adjustment and making that noise...
I did a complete valve adjustment and still have it also. As these motors get old it will mostly be a hydraulic valve lifter. They don't put new one in when they reco the motors, they test them and if there ok re-use them.
Strange thing one of mine comes and goes, also found the 2H runs better with a good mineral oil, they prefer a good heavy oil, to thin and you loose oil pressure. Synthetic oil gets very thin when it gets hot and should not be used in a 2H. Even the manual tells you to use the right oil or you may loose oil pressure.
I have done the test and lost oil pressure with synthetic, thought I might get a way with it on a reco motor, soon as it got hot it dropped to 15lb, soon as I put a mineral based oil in it everything was fine.
Strange thing one of mine comes and goes, also found the 2H runs better with a good mineral oil, they prefer a good heavy oil, to thin and you loose oil pressure. Synthetic oil gets very thin when it gets hot and should not be used in a 2H. Even the manual tells you to use the right oil or you may loose oil pressure.
I have done the test and lost oil pressure with synthetic, thought I might get a way with it on a reco motor, soon as it got hot it dropped to 15lb, soon as I put a mineral based oil in it everything was fine.
Count me in to,when i first got my 61 it was pretty bad when cold,every oil change for a while i would drop the desludging or engine cleaner in it,i forget the correct name of that stuff,after 3-4 changes it seemed to slowly fix it.
But i also get the feeling it could have been an injector,you couldn't pin down either sound as they are close to each other
But i also get the feeling it could have been an injector,you couldn't pin down either sound as they are close to each other
ummm.... hydraulic valve lifters in hj60/61? last time i checked it they were pushrod operated...
- Thread starter
- #7
Video
I am a little concurned. I've tried several oil changes without success.
If you listen to this maybe someone recognises the sound:
YouTube - Ticking engine
In about 30 seconds it will begin to fade away and will be complitely gone within 1 or two minutes.
I am a little concurned. I've tried several oil changes without success.
If you listen to this maybe someone recognises the sound:
YouTube - Ticking engine
In about 30 seconds it will begin to fade away and will be complitely gone within 1 or two minutes.
sounds pretty familiar, just alot louder than on my hj61... my best guess is that it could be one of the rocker arms has worn contact surface -> too big clearange on pushrod/rocker arm contact, i know some old hj's have the problem with rocker arms developing a "pit" on the rocker arm which leads to that once you adjust it to right clearance it will still be out of spec if it were measured from bottom of the "pit"...
just my guess thou, nothing concrete on it...
just my guess thou, nothing concrete on it...
- Thread starter
- #9
Yes, I've seen what you are talking about on my other HJ60 but this one has good rocker arms without any "holes" and the valve clearance is adjusted correctly.
I've tried loosen the injector pipes while idling, one at a time but I can still hear the ticking sound.
The injectors are recently rebuilt.
Could it be the camshaft or lifters? But it doesn't make sense that it will go away within a minute or two.
If a rev it up just a little the ticking disappears but will come back when returned to idle as long its cold.
just listened to your engine on youtube and i can see why your a little concerned, have you put a mechanical guage on it to check what the oil pressure is ? although it is hard to diagnose over the internet my bet would be on that it has a crook big end 
my guess is a valve is sticking and then being slapped back to closed position by the piston
or something is wrong with the bottom end as previously stated
pull the oil pan and check your bearings man its the cost of gasket goo (bearings worst case sinario roughly $200 for conecting rod bearings and main bearings) and your time in your garage
s*** just do it if your worried or toast the engine (ive spun a bearing 1984 3B not fun dont go there still got parts though)
givver buddy ih8mud is here for help
or something is wrong with the bottom end as previously stated
pull the oil pan and check your bearings man its the cost of gasket goo (bearings worst case sinario roughly $200 for conecting rod bearings and main bearings) and your time in your garage
s*** just do it if your worried or toast the engine (ive spun a bearing 1984 3B not fun dont go there still got parts though)
givver buddy ih8mud is here for help
It's hard to say without hearing it for myself but a ticking noise from a cold old engine is usually piston slap, if it gets worse under heavy load than 100 to 1 is piston slap.
- Thread starter
- #13
Thanks for all replys.
It sound MUCH worse on youtube than reality. I've changed to thinner oil, from mineral 20/50 to semi syntetic 10/40. At first it made no difference but now, a couple of days later it sounds a lot better
I sounds great after 30s.
But on the videos I can still hear some bad noises.
I put some more video on youtube:
From the first second its started at 3 degrees celcius:
YouTube - Tick
A little throttle cold:
YouTube - Video0005.3gp
One minute after coldstart:
YouTube - Tick2
Nothing underneath:
YouTube - Tickinng underneath
What do you think?
My oilpressure is good, 5-6kg at coldstart and more than specified when hot too with a accurate gauge.
That gotto hurt my valves. How do I fix a sticking valve?
Isn't it supposed to knock a lot from underneath and get worse the hotter it gets the more throttle I give if it's the bearings? Or?
Sounds like a very good idea but I'm very short of time to prepare my cars for a big trip, barely have time to take a dump... On the other hand I don't want anything that bad to happen.
It disappears when I rev it, drive or wait a minut. No piston slap then?
It sound MUCH worse on youtube than reality. I've changed to thinner oil, from mineral 20/50 to semi syntetic 10/40. At first it made no difference but now, a couple of days later it sounds a lot better
I sounds great after 30s.But on the videos I can still hear some bad noises.
I put some more video on youtube:
From the first second its started at 3 degrees celcius:
YouTube - Tick
A little throttle cold:
YouTube - Video0005.3gp
One minute after coldstart:
YouTube - Tick2
Nothing underneath:
YouTube - Tickinng underneath
What do you think?
just listened to your engine on youtube and i can see why your a little concerned, have you put a mechanical guage on it to check what the oil pressure is ? although it is hard to diagnose over the internet my bet would be on that it has a crook big end
My oilpressure is good, 5-6kg at coldstart and more than specified when hot too with a accurate gauge.
That gotto hurt my valves. How do I fix a sticking valve?
Isn't it supposed to knock a lot from underneath and get worse the hotter it gets the more throttle I give if it's the bearings? Or?
Sounds like a very good idea but I'm very short of time to prepare my cars for a big trip, barely have time to take a dump... On the other hand I don't want anything that bad to happen.
It disappears when I rev it, drive or wait a minut. No piston slap then?
Hello
First, i will introduce myself.
I'm the proud owner of a 1988 hj61 with 365000 km left.
Mine did exactly the same at cold start about two years ago.
I was running semi synthetic oil (10W40).
He used to burn half liter of oil between oil change.
So I've change to mineral oil, and it makes a huge difference.
No need to add oil between oil change, but noisy like yours at cold start until I've got oil pressure.
A year ago, slowly , it did it until engine gets is normal temperature.
So, things became more serious.
I've decided to change injectors, no improvement.
I've set up valve clearance, the same improvement.
I've talk about it with 12h-t gurus.
They answer it could be piston rings worn and piston too.
Especially the first on top of piston.
After checking everywhere on Web, I've noticed, that's a common issue with this engine, with 300000 km over...
So, when I would have much more money, I would have rebuilt this engine.
Ps: if my english is incorrect, don't blame me, I'm a newbie...
First, i will introduce myself.
I'm the proud owner of a 1988 hj61 with 365000 km left.
Mine did exactly the same at cold start about two years ago.
I was running semi synthetic oil (10W40).
He used to burn half liter of oil between oil change.
So I've change to mineral oil, and it makes a huge difference.
No need to add oil between oil change, but noisy like yours at cold start until I've got oil pressure.
A year ago, slowly , it did it until engine gets is normal temperature.
So, things became more serious.
I've decided to change injectors, no improvement.
I've set up valve clearance, the same improvement.
I've talk about it with 12h-t gurus.
They answer it could be piston rings worn and piston too.
Especially the first on top of piston.
After checking everywhere on Web, I've noticed, that's a common issue with this engine, with 300000 km over...
So, when I would have much more money, I would have rebuilt this engine.
Ps: if my english is incorrect, don't blame me, I'm a newbie...
rideglobally
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my 12ht is doing same w/ 400 km
hope this is not too much of an hijack, mine is doing same sounds like one of the valve clearance is out of adjustment. in my situation i can barely hear it at idle, when i increase the rpm the tapping gets louder and it does not go away when the engine reaches normal temperature.
could you pls explain what loosening the injector and tightening them back up does?
i have done all of these same thing except rebuilding the injectors. i am also planning to go on a 3,000 mile trip in a few weeks if this is a common issue will it be ok to drive it to that distance?
thanks, hope this is not too much of an hi jack
hope this is not too much of an hijack, mine is doing same sounds like one of the valve clearance is out of adjustment. in my situation i can barely hear it at idle, when i increase the rpm the tapping gets louder and it does not go away when the engine reaches normal temperature.
could you pls explain what loosening the injector and tightening them back up does?
i have done all of these same thing except rebuilding the injectors. i am also planning to go on a 3,000 mile trip in a few weeks if this is a common issue will it be ok to drive it to that distance?
thanks, hope this is not too much of an hi jack
If the noise doesn't increase under heavy load then it isn't piston slap you'll be relieved to know.
On one of the videos I can hear a tappet clatter above the normal diesel knock. As you have found, this changes with different oil, so therefore the problem is fixed.
Please understand that diesels work off heat and compression to explode or burn the fuel. 12H-t's start remarkably well in cold conditions with no glow plugs (before the glow screen turns on) and fire up SO fast compared to indirect injection.
Why is this relevant? I am wondering if part of the ticking sound is related to incomplete combustion in a cold engine. If I have read you right, the noise goes away when it is hot. To my thinking there is no problem.
How many kms has your engine done? They last for a very long time.
Ridgelocally. I don't know why someone would crack an injector line when the engine is running. Maybe it is to help diagnose where the problem is. Or to remove air.... very messy practice IMHO>
Looking at the various 12H-T pulled down by gbentink of this forum, there is a known problem of the top ring grooves wearing and it is his observation that 300k is about time for new pistons. Replacement pistons have steel inserts in the ring guides to stop this ring groove wear. It seems the bores on these engines are extraordinary and I really doubt piston slap is a problem.
Does it start well?
Does it use any oil?
Does it have good power?
If Yes, No, Yes, then just enjoy the character of your engine
Tim
Please understand that diesels work off heat and compression to explode or burn the fuel. 12H-t's start remarkably well in cold conditions with no glow plugs (before the glow screen turns on) and fire up SO fast compared to indirect injection.
Why is this relevant? I am wondering if part of the ticking sound is related to incomplete combustion in a cold engine. If I have read you right, the noise goes away when it is hot. To my thinking there is no problem.
How many kms has your engine done? They last for a very long time.
Ridgelocally. I don't know why someone would crack an injector line when the engine is running. Maybe it is to help diagnose where the problem is. Or to remove air.... very messy practice IMHO>
Looking at the various 12H-T pulled down by gbentink of this forum, there is a known problem of the top ring grooves wearing and it is his observation that 300k is about time for new pistons. Replacement pistons have steel inserts in the ring guides to stop this ring groove wear. It seems the bores on these engines are extraordinary and I really doubt piston slap is a problem.
Does it start well?
Does it use any oil?
Does it have good power?
If Yes, No, Yes, then just enjoy the character of your engine
Tim
Cracking an injector line when the engine is running, help diagnose where the problem is when engine runs like crap.On one of the videos I can hear a tappet clatter above the normal diesel knock. As you have found, this changes with different oil, so therefore the problem is fixed.
Please understand that diesels work off heat and compression to explode or burn the fuel. 12H-t's start remarkably well in cold conditions with no glow plugs (before the glow screen turns on) and fire up SO fast compared to indirect injection.
Why is this relevant? I am wondering if part of the ticking sound is related to incomplete combustion in a cold engine. If I have read you right, the noise goes away when it is hot. To my thinking there is no problem.
How many kms has your engine done? They last for a very long time.
Ridgelocally. I don't know why someone would crack an injector line when the engine is running. Maybe it is to help diagnose where the problem is. Or to remove air.... very messy practice IMHO>
Looking at the various 12H-T pulled down by gbentink of this forum, there is a known problem of the top ring grooves wearing and it is his observation that 300k is about time for new pistons. Replacement pistons have steel inserts in the ring guides to stop this ring groove wear. It seems the bores on these engines are extraordinary and I really doubt piston slap is a problem.
Does it start well?
Does it use any oil?
Does it have good power?
If Yes, No, Yes, then just enjoy the character of your engine
Tim
So no need to do this for everybody here.
How?
When you loose fuel pressure of one injector, engine must rev down, in normal condition.
If not, injector clogged or, bad injection pump, or lack of compression pressure...
- Thread starter
- #19
Great, thanks.
On one of the videos I can hear a tappet clatter above the normal diesel knock. As you have found, this changes with different oil, so therefore the problem is fixed.
Please understand that diesels work off heat and compression to explode or burn the fuel. 12H-t's start remarkably well in cold conditions with no glow plugs (before the glow screen turns on) and fire up SO fast compared to indirect injection.
Why is this relevant? I am wondering if part of the ticking sound is related to incomplete combustion in a cold engine. If I have read you right, the noise goes away when it is hot. To my thinking there is no problem.
How many kms has your engine done? They last for a very long time.
Ridgelocally. I don't know why someone would crack an injector line when the engine is running. Maybe it is to help diagnose where the problem is. Or to remove air.... very messy practice IMHO>
Looking at the various 12H-T pulled down by gbentink of this forum, there is a known problem of the top ring grooves wearing and it is his observation that 300k is about time for new pistons. Replacement pistons have steel inserts in the ring guides to stop this ring groove wear. It seems the bores on these engines are extraordinary and I really doubt piston slap is a problem.
Does it start well?
Does it use any oil?
Does it have good power?
If Yes, No, Yes, then just enjoy the character of your engine
Tim
I think my my engine has done about 450-500 000 km.
Ive spoked to a few people who ownes HJ61 here and they I've done 500-600 000km and still works fine without any ticking.
My old reliable 2H that a I had in my car before the engine swap has done 820 000km and drives great (but slow)
I have to give it a little throttle when I cold start below 5 degrees celsius it for 1 or two seconds otherwise it stalls, discussed in this tread: https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/254247-12ht-stalling.html
At startup it smokes a white and a little blue will be gone in a sec. It runs perfekt after that sec. I can put that on youtube tomorrow too.
If its hotter than 10 degrees or if I've used my heater i don't need any throttle and it doesn't smoke at all.
I don't know how much oil it uses. I haven't driven this engine more than 5000 - 8000 km and tried different oils in the meantime. But I get the impression that it consumes to much. Replaced the turbo just in case that's what caused it. A big guess will be 1-3L in 5000 km. It doesn't smell burned oil even driving behind it and doesn't smoke blue.
Yes, it has plenty of power. But when it idles and I touch the pedal it will give me a puff of black smoke.
This morning it was really cold outside but the ticking was almost completely gone! Just a little tick a few seconds. Strange...
Your theories about the piston rings sounds not fun but likely.
I've been thinking about incomplete combustion too.
I hope it will take me another 25 000 km.
In 4 weeks I will drive my Land cruiser through Africa 25 000km but when I get home I will have 3 months to rebuild it before I head to Mongolia (18 000km).
New pistons, re bore, main and rod bearings, rebiult injectionpump and inspection of the head will make me very poor (3-5000€?) but less concerned driving round the world the next 4000 000km.
I'm grateful for all replies, keep them coming.
Last edited:
rebuild kit for 12ht should be around 1ke with everything included from roodogs, getting the pump inspected and adjusted should be around 300e-500e in most cases, maybe 300e for injecters (incase needed)...
