thumbs up to Affordable Injection. (1 Viewer)

[lcwizard]

I've installed a few brands of 2F fuel injection. Most with a reservation or two.
WE built a system for Man-a-fre back in 1999 through about 2003 so I'm familiar as to what should be expected. I tried their 2F kit with the 3F electronically controlled dizzy. I have to say it's the best running
kit I've tried in ten years. Idles great , no odd idle quirks coming to stops . No flat spots and smooth acceleration. If your OCD about wiring you may opt to add an upgraded fuse block. None of the sytems go crazy with the wiring details. I prefer the 1200 degree wire loom to plastic, especially near the motor.
That's just a personal thing, the system runs great either way . The air cleaner adapter isn't theirs. It's a remnant from our kits. The radio delete was replaced with a Glowshift electronic fuel pressure gauge and
a voltmeter. Both of these items I consider almost necessary to diagnosing fuel injection issues.
With TBI if pressure drops below 10psi or voltage drops below 10.5, things don't run well

 

[White Stripe]

I'm curious what their EFI programming looks like compared to mine.

 

[lcwizard]

@White Stripe

Not really sure what they've done but it's the best programming I've had in a "kit" since my kits. In fairness, I didn't do my programming but the system I built had an ESC , knock sensor and speed sensor so I was beginning to suspect the lack of those made some difference. All the kits, now, program some of the GM sensors out. It always seemed that there were glitches in the idle programming. Sometimes too high or pulling to a stop the idle might flare up for a few seconds then settle down. I've had noticeable flat spots in an RPM range with a couple. This is my first time with the Affordable System so it's hardly a scientific comparison...could be just lucky. I do like the use of the 3F dizzy which is a true computer controlled advance distributor. I was never completely happy leaving a vacuum advance dizzy in place and just triggering the injectors off the
ground, which is some kits' approach. The option of using the computer controlled HEI was a good option but they were all cheap Chinese imports and I couldn't get one to last. I was beginning to suspect the drive gears were cut wrong since most of the failures with those involve the thrust bushing under the stator. Perhaps the 3F gear will be a better match to the Toyota cam

 

[roma042987]

man you had the polar opposite experience from me with the affordable kit. I had one problem after another on the kit I installed on Tuckers 40. Bad solder joint in the distributor pick up (that was a nightmare to fix because it would skip intermittently at cruising speed turned out turbulence in the engine bay would cause the wire to move and loose connection momentarily. I ended up brushing my hand against the wires and it skipped a beat was how I ended up finding the problem.) bad o2 sensor (was biased lean) replaced with bosch unit, bad computer (would intermittently cut out or not start so you had to hit it a few times to get it going), ended up having to replace the dist cap and rotor as well. The computer we had to have a replacement mailed to us in Ouray, Colorado because it got so bad. Most of the problems were attributed to the aftermarket parts supplied with the kit. After fixing the solder joint that was corroded under the heat shrink and replacing all the above parts it ran decent. It always needed to warm up for 15-30 seconds on a cold start other wise it would skip some under load.
I used that same air cleaner adapter we got from you

 

[SteveH]

Thanks for the feedback on the system. By a '3F' distributor, do you mean '88-92 FJ62/80? What does that distributor offer that a '81-87 (for instance) distributor does not? I'd like to stick with my '78 distributor, since I'm not a fan of HEI/DUI stuff.

 

[Downey]

We played with ALL the choices when developing the Downey kit (with and without some of the sensors, 6 or 8 different programming approaches), and at the end of the day we had the best luck with a "Complete-Stock" Chevy S-10 system since the kit was based on a 1987-92 Chevy S-10 4.3 V6 TBI system- - -practically same size engine as the Landcruiser. Maybe I'm getting too old school, but when using the #1227747 ECU with #17089045 Throttle Body with 1.685 butterflies I can't imagine using less than that full system, all sensors, best drivability. We always used the 1978-newer Landcruiser distributor (modified) since it (1) fits the Landcruiser engine/cam, and (2) it has the correct sine wave signal.

Yep, Mud guys have tried many different approaches over the years, some have probably worked very well, but when a guy tells me he has a problem, I tell him to go back to the basics- - -the original "complete" kit.

 

[lcwizard]

Thanks for the feedback on the system. By a '3F' distributor, do you mean '88-92 FJ62/80? What does that distributor offer that a '81-87 (for instance) distributor does not? I'd like to stick with my '78 distributor, since I'm not a fan of HEI/DUI stuff.

The 60 distributor was centrifugal and vacuum advance. The advance weights and vacuum are trying to adjust timing while the computer fights it. The solution is to spot weld the advance plate so it doesn't move around and let the computer control advance and retard. A true electronic
computer control ignition lets the EFI programming control spark

 

[SteveH]

Thanks - that answers the question!

 

[lcwizard]

@roma042987

Did you use their 3F or their HEI option in distributors? I've had too many failures on the HEI/Toyota distributors to fall for that again.
Like I said I could have got lucky. As you pointed out I've also had nothing but issues with aftermarket TBI parts on the 5.7s I have. A new distributor that made 7 miles before loosing the module. Four IAC controllers until one worked right and a ESC that didn't work from the get go.
The cheap aftermarket pieces are frustrating
It's summer in AZ so I won't know how the cold starts are for about 5 months....unless 80 degs is considered cold

 

[Downey]

Way too easy to remove the FJ60 distributor weights, and tack weld the advance plate, BUT first mark "home base" between advance plate and distributor body before removing the vacuum advancer unit/arm.

 

[lcwizard]

Way too easy to remove the FJ60 distributor weights, and tack weld the advance plate, BUT first mark "home base" between advance plate and distributor body before removing the vacuum advancer unit/arm.

I had to do that with a system on a 60 after the DUI HEI with computer controls failed at 17,000. Since then, twice more .Pretty much done with any Chinese HEI/Toyota stuff.
You have to remote mount the HEI module so a little soldering is involved. I don't know if it was the system programming but I did notice
a narrower advance range with the modified vacuum unit once the plates were fixed. That's better than falling apart like the other options

 

[roma042987]

@roma042987

Did you use their 3F or their HEI option in distributors? I've had too many failures on the HEI/Toyota distributors to fall for that again.
Like I said I could have got lucky. As you pointed out I've also had nothing but issues with aftermarket TBI parts on the 5.7s I have. A new distributor that made 7 miles before loosing the module. Four IAC controllers until one worked right and a ESC that didn't work from the get go.
The cheap aftermarket pieces are frustrating
It's summer in AZ so I won't know how the cold starts are for about 5 months....unless 80 degs is considered cold

yep they supplied the distributor. Yeah cold start problem wasn't dependent on ambient temp really just with the initial start of the day. Either you got lucky or I got unlucky ha ha

 

[Downey]

I'm thinking the fuel enrichment upon starting is not dependent on ambient temp, lemme know if I am wrong.

 

[White Stripe]

Crank spark timing and fuel is dependent on engine temp. From what I understand the colder the engine temps at crank the richer the mixture and greater spark advance that you want. The greater the advance is to allow for greater burn time due to the colder temps.

 

[pjohnson]

.. snip.. BUT first mark "home base" between advance plate and distributor body before removing the vacuum advancer unit/arm.

Please expand on this. Why is this necessary? What do you do if you didn't mark 'home base' ?

 

[fabiodaddy]

I've been very happy with my AFI kit I installed in the FJ40 over the winter. Starts right up every time and I am getting much better performance than I have had with any of the carbs I tried. Funny, I also ended up mounting the ECU in the glove box. Really didn't want to put it there, but there really was not an empty space anywhere else.
I purchased the DUI dizzy from AFI. My old DUI seemed to have an issue (not advancing correctly), so I opted for the one with the input from ECU to control timing. Seems to work great. I hope it lasts!!!

LCWIZARD, still enjoying that rear bumper on my FJ62 that I got from you a couple years ago!!!!

 

[lcwizard]

I've been very happy with my AFI kit I installed in the FJ40 over the winter. Starts right up every time and I am getting much better performance than I have had with any of the carbs I tried. Funny, I also ended up mounting the ECU in the glove box. Really didn't want to put it there, but there really was not an empty space anywhere else.
I purchased the DUI dizzy from AFI. My old DUI seemed to have an issue (not advancing correctly), so I opted for the one with the input from ECU to control timing. Seems to work great. I hope it lasts!!!

I'm definitely a fan of fuel injection. I think it's the only way to get consistent performance and fuel economy. Trucks getting 12mpgs jump to 14 or 15. My Throttle body 5.7 in a 40 got a solid 16.5 ~18 on the highway. I towed a trailer with two dirtbikes and camping gear to Moab and logged just over 16 for the towing portion of the trip. Held to 55 mph behind by sisters moving van from AZ to NM I averaged almost 20.
I hear people say they get 16 with their carbs but I bought a 40 brand new off the lot in 78 and the mileage was always 12~13. Maybe 14 in a perfect storm. 12 was norm for mixed driving. Add the consistent behavior through all elevation changes and fewer flat spots across the powerband, cold weather starts, off camber manners and emissions reductions, I can't say I ever choose to carbutate again

 

[120mm]

Crank spark timing and fuel is dependent on engine temp. From what I understand the colder the engine temps at crank the richer the mixture and greater spark advance that you want. The greater the advance is to allow for greater burn time due to the colder temps.

Correct on mixture richness, incorrect on spark advance.

Old timey engines have a manual spark advance that you retard to start.

 

[lcwizard]

Correct on mixture richness, incorrect on spark advance.

Old timey engines have a manual spark advance that you retard to start.

I would think it varies from engine to engine with a pcm driven injection. They programmers can do anything they please.
When I do an LS swap all sorts of things are dropped and modified. The final tune on a dyno involves tweaking mixtures and spark
throughout the powerband to tune to the discrepancies introduced with non stock exhaust, intake and whatever else mods have been done.
Generally a retarded spark does make cranking easier effectively lowering compression so you're probably right that spark retard at start up might be a PCM program feature. I honestly never programmed a chip myself....I just tell them "make it faster and get 100mpgs". I never get my way on that

 

[Downey]

Please expand on this. Why is this necessary? What do you do if you didn't mark 'home base' ?

Home base is zero vacuum or mechanical advance in the distributor, this is what you want in order for the ECU to control timing advance/retard. If you remove the vacuum advance unit before marking home base, the advancer plate will rotate off of home base when you remove the advancer plate to remove the centrifugal weights, and you then won't know where home base was when you go to tack weld the advancer plate..