Thoughts on LC250 Remote Touring Capacities (1 Viewer)

[M1911]

It's America, bro! You're free to not give a **** until your actions are proven negligent in a court of law.

Right. Because so many people lose court cases in the USA due to being over gross weight in their SUVs. So many, in fact, that no one can actually provide a link to such a case.

No, I'm not saying that you should overload your SUV. But what I am saying is that all the people who claim that in the USA you will suffer legal consequences for being a couple hundred pounds overweight in your privately owned and operated vehicle are full of poo.

If you try pulling a 38,000 lb trailer with an SUV rated for 8,000 lbs, that’s rather different than putting 1,400 lb of gross weight in a vehicle rated for 1,200 lbs.

 

[TheLCProject]

Right. Because so many people lose court cases in the USA due to being over gross weight in their SUVs. So many, in fact, that no one can actually provide a link to such a case.

That's what paralegals and law school students are for. I'm not going to go through all civil and criminal motor-vehicle related proceedings in each of the 50 states just to prove someone on the internet wrong.

Maybe there are, maybe there aren't. But it doesn't matter to you until it does. Hitting a pedestrian, bicyclist, motorcyclist or convertible and having your rooftop tent slide off and aggravate their injuries? If I got rear ended by one of the countless bros in their 4Runners or Tacomas on the way back from a camping trip you can bet your butt a good attorney is going to aggravate the damages due to exceeding payload.

Again, has it happened? Maybe, maybe not, but It doesn't matter until it does.

And then you get a law on to books because some idiot thought they knew better than anyone else or wanted an advantage or to game the system.

This is how America works.

 

[M1911]

Ah, screw it. It's not worth it.

 

[TheLCProject]

Dude. Seriously?

When was the last time law enforcment weighed a privately owned vehicle after an accident?

The "your going to get sued" scare nonsense needs to stop. Either prove it or let it go.

Your response is just so typical 'Murica. You proved my point precisely. This is the land where can something, anything, despite your best judgement and common sense, just because you can and until you can't or someone with a gun tells you not to.

• Atkinson & Frampton, PLLC filed claim on behalf of family of teenager tragically killed by overloaded truck | Atkinson & Frampton, PLLC - https://www.amplaw.com/firm-news/atkinson-frampton-pllc-filed-claim-on-behalf-of-family-of-teenager-tragically-killed-by-overloaded-truck/

• Paramedic blamed overloading in rollover of roll-off truck - VerdictSearch - https://www.law.com/verdictsearch/verdict/paramedic-blamed-overloading-rollover-roll-off-truck/

• Texas: Item 27: https://www.tdcj.texas.gov/divisions/hr/hr-policy/pd-27a.pdf
• Texas City Code: 71-16: No person shall drive a vehicle when it is loaded with material or passengers so as to obstruct the view of the driver to the front or sides of the vehicle, or as to interfere with the driver’s control over the driving mechanism of the vehicle. (§ 71.16 OVERLOADING OR OVERCROWDING VEHICLE. - https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/texascity/latest/texascity_tx/0-0-0-3179)

• California: Item 3 on this list: Section 7: Laws and Rules of the Road (Continued) - California DMV - https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/california-driver-handbook/laws-and-rules-of-the-road-cont2/ (Fine up to $1000 or 6 months in jail)

• This one is funny: United States v. Sharpe, 470 U.S. 675 (1985) - https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/470/675/ (Overlanding vehicles are just mules for drugs...lol)

Going back to the list of items from California..if you are the type of person that would like to join the type of people that violate the item on that list, then by all means, continue as you are. They are all reasonable, common sense things.

But if a quick google search can turn up a couple examples and some laws on the books, you can bet there are more out there with an actual case law search.

 

[ryanjl]

As an attorney, I'm not aware of any specific case where it's come up, but it almost certainly has at some point. I don't practice in personal injury or car accident cases, but I used to do similar and I know many attorney who do. Here's how it probably would play out:

Overloaded vehicle causes an accident. Someone in other vehicle is severely injured or killed. Injured person or estate of decedent sue.

Attorneys representing the plaintiff work hard to prove their case. If there are photos of the accident scene (there probably are), they may catch an inkling that the overloaded vehicle looks like it was hauling a heavy load and use that to prove more negligence on the part of the owner/driver. They may not have concrete proof of a scale ticket, but they will argue the evidence indicates the vehicle was overloaded.

But how much that all comes into play depends on whether the overloaded vehicle was just some regular individual or a commercial/company car.

If it's just a regular individual who's driving the overloaded vehicle, it ultimately may not matter. Very seldom (unless that individual is really rich and acting really negligently) would the plaintiff's attorney go after anything beyond the limits of the insurance policy. Going after more than that gets to be a PITA to collect anything. That said, if the insurance company decides the owner/driver isn't guilty of negligence so much as they are of intentionally doing something wrong, it may deny coverage. In that case, the owner could be screwed.

If the driver/owner of the overloaded vehicle is doing so on behalf of a company, however, that all changes. If it's a "company" car for an aftermarket parts manufacturer, or if its a commercial semi, I can guarantee you the vehicle's load will certainly play a part if the plaintiff's attorney gets an inkling that was the case. Those cases can be and usually are big money cases, because you are not limited by the few hundred thousand dollars of a standard insurance policy but instead are suing an entire company, which typically has millions in insurance coverage.

 

[LX Cruiser]

Just pointing out the hypocrisy inconsistency involved in ignoring the government-mandated placard on your vehicle that says occupants and cargo are not to exceed a certain weight but taking solace in the other non-jurisdictional governmental certificate saying springs add payload.

It's America, bro! You're free to not give a **** until your actions are proven negligent in a court of law.

Do you EVER exceed the posted speed limit?

 

[M1911]

Before you head out on a vacation road trip, how many of you load up your SUV, then drive to the local weigh station to weigh your rig?

Your honor, the defense rests.

 

[TheLCProject]

Dude. Seriously?

When was the last time law enforcment weighed a privately owned vehicle after an accident?

The "your going to get sued" scare nonsense needs to stop. Either prove it or let it go.


Ah, screw it. It's not worth it.

Is this what losing an argument on the internet looks like? Not the first time with you.

Do you EVER exceed the posted speed limit?

Never. And you know that that (my personal speed choices) is totally irrelevant to the discussion being had here. You're just trying to make sure the kettle gets called black, too.

In that regard though as it is actually relevant: If I was speeding, perhaps maybe because I had made modifications to my car to exceed tire ratings or braking capacity, or anything like that, I would expect my excessive speed to contribution to civil or crimimal liability in the exact same way weight would.
I am glad to see that you can understand that implication.


Also, energy in a collision is 1/2 * mass * velocity squared. Bringing more mass and speed to to the accident party adds to the same energy that injures people. If one can prove that your 500lb over payload vehicle came in 20 mph faster and 500 lbs heavier than it otherwise would have, that would certainly contribute to the discussion.

 

[TheLCProject]

Before you head out on a vacation road trip, how many of you load up your SUV, then drive to the local weigh station to weigh your rig?

Your honor, the defense rests.

Same argument you make over and over again on literally every topic you opine on. Just because you don't do it or something doesn't occur to you doesn't mean that that's how the world operates. There's a spectrum of thought and behaviors out there besides yours.

Not that it's relevant, but I am well aware of the weight of the persons and gear I put in my vehicle and my vehicle's weight rating. And I have also weighed my vehicles on scales.

 

[LX Cruiser]

Your response is just so typical 'Murica. You proved my point precisely. This is the land where can something, anything, despite your best judgement and common sense, just because you can and until you can't or someone with a gun tells you not to.

• Atkinson & Frampton, PLLC filed claim on behalf of family of teenager tragically killed by overloaded truck | Atkinson & Frampton, PLLC - https://www.amplaw.com/firm-news/atkinson-frampton-pllc-filed-claim-on-behalf-of-family-of-teenager-tragically-killed-by-overloaded-truck/

• Paramedic blamed overloading in rollover of roll-off truck - VerdictSearch - https://www.law.com/verdictsearch/verdict/paramedic-blamed-overloading-rollover-roll-off-truck/

• Texas: Item 27: https://www.tdcj.texas.gov/divisions/hr/hr-policy/pd-27a.pdf
• Texas City Code: 71-16: No person shall drive a vehicle when it is loaded with material or passengers so as to obstruct the view of the driver to the front or sides of the vehicle, or as to interfere with the driver’s control over the driving mechanism of the vehicle. (§ 71.16 OVERLOADING OR OVERCROWDING VEHICLE. - https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/texascity/latest/texascity_tx/0-0-0-3179)

• California: Item 3 on this list: Section 7: Laws and Rules of the Road (Continued) - California DMV - https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/california-driver-handbook/laws-and-rules-of-the-road-cont2/ (Fine up to $1000 or 6 months in jail)

• This one is funny: United States v. Sharpe, 470 U.S. 675 (1985) - https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/470/675/ (Overlanding vehicles are just mules for drugs...lol)

Going back to the list of items from California..if you are the type of person that would like to join the type of people that violate the item on that list, then by all means, continue as you are. They are all reasonable, common sense things.

But if a quick google search can turn up a couple examples and some laws on the books, you can bet there are more out there with an actual case law search.

I’ll remember not to drive 22mph in a commercial truck on the highway, not to overload my commercial truck 3750 lb especially while overloading my commercial trailer by 10600 lb, and not to be obviously and grossly overloaded with a vehicle full of drugs and pulling a Pontiac.

I’m never grossly overloaded. I’m also not a commercial vehicle.

Never.

I do, occasionally. And I don’t believe you for one second.

Whatever you do, don’t come to Tennessee. I hear there are 570s out there that might be 200-500 lb over GVWR a few times a year! The horror!

 

[TheLCProject]

I do, occasionally. And I don’t believe you for one second.

Whatever you do, don’t come to Tennessee. I hear there are 570s out there that might be 200-500 lb over GVWR a few times a year! The horror!

I'm not saying it's a high crime and worthy of capital punishment. But it's like one of those things like picking your nose. Most people probably do it, everyone says they don't, but it's gross either way.

 

[CruisinWatermelon]

Not that it's relevant, but I am well aware of the weight of the persons and gear I put in my vehicle

Do you bring in the carnival guy to snuff out the liars?

 

[TheLCProject]

Do you bring in the carnival guy to snuff out the liars?
View attachment 3635879

Obviously.

 

[ryanjl]

Before you head out on a vacation road trip, how many of you load up your SUV, then drive to the local weigh station to weigh your rig?

Your honor, the defense rests.

I suppose even bad arguments are still arguments.

 

[OregonLC]

If you guys are worried about the legal ramifications of rolling 500 lbs over GVWR, just imagine what the opposing legal team will do when that all-metal custom bumper of yours hits a pedestrian. Or (gasp!) when you were driving 10 mph over the posted limit.

To further illustrate the uselessness of the sticker, consider my Ram Power Wagon. Sticker shows ~ 8,500 lbs GVWR. The same 2500 in Limited trim has a GVWR of 10,000 lbs. The PW is rated less because of (among other things) the lift, spring rate, and winch that blocks engine cooling. Yet people throw a 4" Rancho lift on a 2500 and feel happy rolling at 10,000. But somehow a PW with less lift is a rolling liability at 9,000 lbs? Absudity. Further, take trailering. A 200 at 8,000 lbs is unsafe but the same 200 pulling at a GCVW of 13,000 lbs is safe? There's really not much logic in the safety or negligence claim.

The hard thing for us overlander types is to figure out is component margin. On the previous gen Tacoma, the frame has proven to be close to it's limit at GVWR. Not a vehicle I'd consider rolling significantly over weight on the trail. The 200, is a beast. Not worried at all about structural problems at 500 lbs over. The 250 is too young yet to show its colors.

 

[TheLCProject]

If you guys are worried about the legal ramifications of rolling 500 lbs over GVWR, just imagine what the opposing legal team will do when that all-metal custom bumper of yours hits a pedestrian. Or (gasp!) when you were driving 10 mph over the posted limit.

And that's why I stay under GVWR and I don't run those bumpers. And as stated before, I always drive at or under the speed limit. Always.

 

[LX Cruiser]

And that's why I stay under GVWR and I don't run those bumpers. And as stated before, I always drive at or under the speed limit. Always.

Absolutely insufferable. Now I can’t unhear it in your YouTube videos.

Anyway, here you go

 

[TheLCProject]

Absolutely insufferable. Now I can’t unhear it in your YouTube videos.

Anyway, here you go

I don't think you'll have to worry about it that.

 

[TWILLY]

What a shame that the US market can't have the triple locked, 110L fuel capacity, cloth interior 300 GX that Toyota sells oversees for less than US spec 250s that aren't designed for heavier duty remote touring.

 

[LX Cruiser]

Further, take trailering. A 200 at 8,000 lbs is unsafe but the same 200 pulling at a GCVW of 13,000 lbs is safe? There's really not much logic in the safety or negligence claim.

The issue with Toyotas in the North American market (ever since we lost the 1 Ton Hilux) is available payload. We sacrificed that in the name of comfort when the Tacoma arrived. We Americans want our ride comfort! Consequently, the first number you are likely to be over when towing with any Toyota truck or SUV is payload.

What’s extra odd about it is Toyota’s printed door jamb numbers are estimates. People have taken their bone stock 2nd and 3rd gen Tundras with a full tank of fuel to the CAT scales and found that their curb weight is further away from GVWR than the door jamb says it should be. Instead of 1300lb, it’s 1410, for example. One guy’s 3rd gen had over 200lb more available payload than the “occupants and cargo should never exceed” number when he went and weighed his truck.

The GX550 might be rated to pull 9k lb, but is the door jamb number anywhere near what it needs to be for me to pull even 7k and have my family in the vehicle, too?

This is the problem, and I will shame exactly no one who is mildly overweight (read: within all numbers for towing except GVWR in the tow vehicle).

What a shame that the US market can't have the triple locked, 110L fuel capacity, cloth interior 300 GX that Toyota sells oversees for less than US spec 250s that aren't designed for heavier duty remote touring.

I would buy the Qatar poverty pack triple locked 300 with cloth seats and no sunroof in a heartbeat, especially a non-turbo model. I think they sell for the equivalent of $55-60k.