Not a vehicle engineer, but a mechanical engineer in unrelated industry. Usually we design and buy designs that have "ratings" knowing they can far far exceed that in practice. The safety factor on piping materials can be a 2 or even 3. I would never think to de-rate something like payload.
Thoughts on LC250 Remote Touring Capacities (1 Viewer)
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Not a vehicle engineer, but a mechanical engineer in unrelated industry. Usually we design and buy designs that have "ratings" knowing they can far far exceed that in practice. The safety factor on piping materials can be a 2 or even 3. I would never think to de-rate something like payload.
Fort9378
SILVER Star
I was reference piping as well actually
. Used to work in Nickel alloy pipe manufacturing.
I've written out a similar comment elsewhere but it feels like the US Toyota marketing dept. was handed the 250 and told to make some sales. So they threw every buzzword in the book at it - just look on their site. "Next generation offroad excellence," "Trail tested for bold expeditions," etc.
Whereas overseas they're taking a much more honest approach. Imagine trying to convince an Aussie that a Prado is a real land cruiser. haha. Or trying to sell Gibraltar Stockholdings a bunch of 250s for use in third world countries. All these other countries have the 70 Series, and the 300 Series. There's no need to pretend that the 250 is their only land cruiser option so they're honest about it.
As far as payload, this is unfortunately nothing new for Toyota. If anyone tows with a Tundra they'll be familiar with the 50+ page threads on tow capacity on other forums. Sure, Toyota says you can tow 10K, but once you calculate tongue weight on a 7K or 8K trailer, you're at or over payload, with very little room to carry anything in the bed. And of course we're all familiar with the time-honored tradition of throwing two thousand pounds of bolt on overland accessories on a Tacoma and struggling to reach the speed limit around town. haha.
Do you have to follow payload ratings? Depends on who you ask. I think a lot of us here can say from experience that it's not very pleasant hitting or exceeding the limit but yeah it can be done.
Obviously you can practically offset some payload issues with new suspension, brakes, supercharger, whatever - but to get back to the Tundra analogy, at a certain point trying to tow close to 10K you realize, "I should have just bought a 3/4 ton."
To echo thoughts from earlier in this thread it's just disappointing that the 250 is a downgrade in payload from previous generations when they're using so many appeals to "heritage," "grit," and "capability" in the marketing materials.
Whereas overseas they're taking a much more honest approach. Imagine trying to convince an Aussie that a Prado is a real land cruiser. haha. Or trying to sell Gibraltar Stockholdings a bunch of 250s for use in third world countries. All these other countries have the 70 Series, and the 300 Series. There's no need to pretend that the 250 is their only land cruiser option so they're honest about it.
As far as payload, this is unfortunately nothing new for Toyota. If anyone tows with a Tundra they'll be familiar with the 50+ page threads on tow capacity on other forums. Sure, Toyota says you can tow 10K, but once you calculate tongue weight on a 7K or 8K trailer, you're at or over payload, with very little room to carry anything in the bed. And of course we're all familiar with the time-honored tradition of throwing two thousand pounds of bolt on overland accessories on a Tacoma and struggling to reach the speed limit around town. haha.
Do you have to follow payload ratings? Depends on who you ask. I think a lot of us here can say from experience that it's not very pleasant hitting or exceeding the limit but yeah it can be done.
Obviously you can practically offset some payload issues with new suspension, brakes, supercharger, whatever - but to get back to the Tundra analogy, at a certain point trying to tow close to 10K you realize, "I should have just bought a 3/4 ton."
To echo thoughts from earlier in this thread it's just disappointing that the 250 is a downgrade in payload from previous generations when they're using so many appeals to "heritage," "grit," and "capability" in the marketing materials.
Please provide an example where this occurred in the US in a privately owned vehicle.
This is the one that's been throw around the Tundra world lately. But it's kind of an extreme case and gets into the "He should have had a CDL" territory. Lot of bad choices here:
NHP: Driver charged after overweight boat, brake failure caused fatal Carson City crash
The driver of a pickup hauling a large boat has been charged after he ran through an intersection, killing two and injuring nine others in Carson City, NHP said.
www.rgj.com
- Thread starter
- #166
Well said.
I always thought my FJ60 payload was somewhere around a half ton rating (1000 lbs). It didn’t have a payload rating placard or sticker that I ever saw.
It probably was rated around 1200 lbs max but I don’t know.
That vehicle was designated as “Heavy Duty” by Toyota not because of its payload capacity but because of its solid front axle and leaf springs all around.
The LC 250’s payload rating seems to only be approximately 100 lbs less that the “Heavy Duty” FJ60, or it could be the same— so I don’t think that the 250’s payload rating is a deal breaker by any means.
It probably was rated around 1200 lbs max but I don’t know.
That vehicle was designated as “Heavy Duty” by Toyota not because of its payload capacity but because of its solid front axle and leaf springs all around.
The LC 250’s payload rating seems to only be approximately 100 lbs less that the “Heavy Duty” FJ60, or it could be the same— so I don’t think that the 250’s payload rating is a deal breaker by any means.
Fort9378
SILVER Star
I think the core of the issue is hanging onto the nameplate still. It's a downgrade for Land Cruisers. Which is what this forum is mostly coming from. Coming from Jeep/Taco/4R owners it's an upgrade. Which is really representative of where the 250 sits as a whole and why it's so polarizing. Evaluated by the sum of its parts it's a really capable vehicle and by most measures will be great. Compared to its predecessors, its a downgrade. I respect both perspectives.
- Thread starter
- #169
See the first post in this thread for a comparison of payload across series since the 80.
One's payload requirements depend on their use case. For your use case, 1100 lbs may be entirely adequate. For others, such as those who use Land Cruisers for their longstanding core purpose of remote touring, it may be entirely inadequate. For my use case, it's disqualifying.
It's funny too, any forum discussion re: payload almost always devolves into two camps:
1. Payload is just a number, no one gets in legal trouble, that's an internet myth, if your truck can handle it, you're good
2. I am going to weigh everything precisely and I am keeping my rig in line with manufacturer stated payload, GVWR and axle ratings.
Not knocking either group, there are pros and cons to both. But I can tell you which one I'd rather be sharing the road with!
In addition to potential legal issues, there are other considerations like warranties. There was this story of the guy who broke his frame and got denied a warranty claim because he exceeded payload:
www.thedrive.com
1. Payload is just a number, no one gets in legal trouble, that's an internet myth, if your truck can handle it, you're good
2. I am going to weigh everything precisely and I am keeping my rig in line with manufacturer stated payload, GVWR and axle ratings.
Not knocking either group, there are pros and cons to both. But I can tell you which one I'd rather be sharing the road with!
In addition to potential legal issues, there are other considerations like warranties. There was this story of the guy who broke his frame and got denied a warranty claim because he exceeded payload:
Broken Ram 3500 Dually Shows a Camper Can Still Overload a Big Truck
This Ram 3500 is awaiting a $17,000 repair job after an enormous slide-in camper snapped its frame.
www.thedrive.com
- Thread starter
- #171
It's funny too, any forum discussion re: payload almost always devolves into two camps:
1. Payload is just a number, no one gets in legal trouble, that's an internet myth, if your truck can handle it, you're good
2. I am going to weigh everything precisely and I am keeping my rig in line with manufacturer stated payload, GVWR and axle ratings.
Not knocking either group, there are pros and cons to both. But I can tell you which one I'd rather be sharing the road with!
In addition to potential legal issues, there are other considerations like warranties. There was this story of the guy who broke his frame and got denied a warranty claim because he exceeded payload:
Broken Ram 3500 Dually Shows a Camper Can Still Overload a Big Truck
This Ram 3500 is awaiting a $17,000 repair job after an enormous slide-in camper snapped its frame.
Yep.
I (obviously) fall squarely into camp two, complete with a 25% or so freeboard because driving at capacity on punishing dirt roads will also punish vehicle longevity.
I read this and immediately went out to check my 2010 4Runner TE (with rear locker). What I found was that the sticker on the for jamb says something like "combined weight of occupants and cargo not to exceed 825 lbs"
It has never occurred to me to worry about going golfing with my 50+ foursome each weighing over 200 lbs plus clubs would really be more than my 4Runner is rated to haul.
A. Stupid!
B. Never caused any problems doing this for 15 years, see A.
Fort9378
SILVER Star
That was why I mentioned it. I respect it being a frustrating reduction from Land Cruiser's previous capabilites, but its really still more than most OHV owners are used to.
My 2011 4runner trail has the same sticker. It's curb weight with armor, bumpers, tools, and such (no occupants) is about 5900lb. Somehow it has managed to make it to 360k miles, including tens of thousands of miles off pavement.
This website is pretty interesting too as far as how they categorize the line up.
Toyota Gibraltar Stockholdings (TGS) - 4x4 vehicles for aid agencies
Official supplier of Toyota 4x4 vehicles, spare parts and accessories to the UN, Governmental Organisations and Non-Governmental Organisations worldwide.
www.toyota-gib.com
Payload is funny, I spent probably 10 years 4x4ing before I even realized I should care about it, because for the most part, Toyotas handle it just fine.
Once I went down that rabbit hole it was a real WTF moment realizing how much I'd been officially close to or over payload. But it all makes sense once you put 2 and 2 together - anemic engine performance, sagging leaf springs resting on bumpstops with minimal of loads, cracked beds, broken steering racks, ball joint failures - I get it, Toyota didn't design these 4Runners, Tacomas etc. for this level of "overloading" - and apparently now add the Land Cruiser to that list.
Most people just accept that they're pushing the limits of the factory spec and it's part of the fun. You can add gears, superchargers, big brakes, whatever to counteract all the stuff you want to drag down the trail with you. End of the day you're outside factory spec. Most people won't have major issues.
I think all we're saying is that it would be nice if Toyota gave us something a little more heavy duty from the factory.
I love TGS trucks. I've always wanted to do a 200 build like their minimal 200 setup
Pulling a 38,000 lb trailer?This is the one that's been throw around the Tundra world lately. But it's kind of an extreme case and gets into the "He should have had a CDL" territory. Lot of bad choices here:
NHP: Driver charged after overweight boat, brake failure caused fatal Carson City crash
The driver of a pickup hauling a large boat has been charged after he ran through an intersection, killing two and injuring nine others in Carson City, NHP said.www.rgj.com
Yeah, that seems rather extreme. I’m not recommending driving with an overweight rig, but I fail to see how driving in a modestly overweight rig (like a couple hundred pounds over the GVWR) is likely to result in any legal liability in the US.
I know that GVWR is a big deal in Australia but here in the US? No, it just isn’t a thing here.
I wouldn't think so either. I think the only way you're going to get into trouble is if you cause some sort of major accident and hurt/kill someone and a lawyer and/or insurance company catches on to it. There are a million threads out there discussing exactly that but there aren't too many legit stories, insurance cases aren't usually newsworthy so I don't know how often it actually happens if at all.
And I'm sure automotive engineers design components from frames to tie rods with a payload or capacity in mind so there must be some reason why they list those specs.
I personally have never been too worried about the legality, but I don't like overweight rigs because it degrades the driving quality. I think most of us here have experienced the modification creep? I added a lift and now I have to slow down a little for corners. Added E-rated 33-35s and now I'm slow. Added bumpers, sliders tent yada yada and now I struggle up this mountain pass and I feel top heavy. And then you hop in a stock vehicle that drives like a sports car in comparison, and you wonder, "what's wrong with me? why did I ruin my car??" haha I'm not the only one right?
But of course the trade off to that is you have a more capable vehicle that can take you further into The Maze or Baja or the Alcan or Death Valley etc.
If you're keeping it mostly stock? I bet the 250 will be great, I think it looks cool and will be a great vehicle.
They would actually have to weigh your rig after the accident. How many times have you heard of that happening? Me neither.
Agreed.
I haven't driven an overweight rig, but I'm sure you are correct.
Fort9378
SILVER Star
An Inside Look into the 2025 Toyota 4Runner, Tacoma, and Land Cruiser
Toyota’s lineup of mid-size trucks all share the same platform. We tease out why you should choose one over the other.
www.outsideonline.com
This article references a 6th gen T4R payload of 895lbs on the hybrid. Makes the LC's 1100 look even more likely to be legit across all trims.
