Thoughts on LC250 Remote Touring Capacities (1 Viewer)

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Here are a few observations about touring-specific capacities of LC250, according to technical specifications for US models posted by OGBeno today (technical documentation in Technical Information Services).

My observations of capacities are relevant to my use case of remote touring / extended remote camping in places usually without fuel or fresh water. Payload capacity (for carrying food, water and people), efficiency and range (which relate to fuel capacity and payload), and cargo volume are all important.

I use previous series, beginning with the 80 series, to benchmark / contextualize the 250's capacities.

Payload
Payload is critical, and payload (gross vehicle weight - curb weight) listed in technical specifications is ~300 lbs less than specifications listed on Toyota's LC250 build website. This is an eyebrow-raising discrepancy. If for some reason the technical specifications are incorrect and website is correct, I may delete this post.

The table below shows curb, gross, and payload values (lbs) by model code and feature. For feature codes, see technical specifications.

Model CodeFeaturesCurbGrossPayload
TJH250L-GNZUZA536067251365
TJH250L-GNZAZA5,6545068351385
TJH250L-GNZAZA5,7553569201385
TJH250L-GNZAZA6540068351435
TJH250L-GNZAZA7549069001410
TJH250L-GNZAZA4,5,6549068351345
TJH250L-GNZAZA4,5,7557569451370
TJH250L-GNZAZA4,6544568351390
TJH250L-GNZAZA4,7553569451410

Payload is significantly less than previous US series. It is at best marginal for two people remote touring and wholly inadequate for remote touring with more than two people. Insofar as payload capacity signals the weight carrying capacity of platform components, the 250's payload capacity indicates that it is engineered to be less robust than preceding US market Land Cruiser series. This theme continues some below.

Aux fuel necessary to achieve 600 mile range
Series / YrFuel CapacityEst. Comb. MPGFuel WeightPayloadCargo Capacity (ft3)Range Miles/lb Fuel$/mile ($5/gal)Aux Fuel, GallonsAux Fuel, LbsPayload After Aux Fuel
80 / 9225.1011.006.101,930.00100276.100.14$0.4529.45179.621,750.38
100 / 200225.4013.006.101,745.0091330.200.19$0.3820.75126.601,618.40
200 / 202024.6014.006.101,570.0082344.400.22$0.3618.26111.371,458.63
250 / 202418.0023.006.101,380.0082414.000.30$0.228.0949.331,330.67

Cargo capacity is acceptable. I do not pack to the ceiling, so the two dimensional footprint (which Toyota does not publish [sq vs. cubic ft]) is the more relevant metric. The two-dimensional footprint (noting the battery bulge that taxes volume) exceeds the 200 series' and is probably closer to that of the 100 series in terms of square feet.

MPG is decent and much improved over previous series, at 23 combined, and I'm optimistic that the hybrid system, with more torque at lower speeds, will see less efficiency degradation at dirt touring speeds than previous series ICE motors. The hybrid platform yields diesel-like efficiency (and torque and power) which is fantastic for remote touring and much improved over previous series.

Range is inadequate but less inadequate than past series. Toyota's choice of a 18 gallon fuel tank is to blame. To achieve 600 miles of range (for example) the 250 requires less auxiliary fuel than previous series.

An interesting metric of combined (range, payload, efficiency, fuel capacity) remote touring capacities is available payload after auxiliary fuel weight for 600 miles of range; here, the 250's small payload and fuel capacity conspire to fall short of past series' payload after aux fuel weight.

Toyota's choice of the 8.2" rear differential gives me pause. On one hand, I am confident that it (and other running gear) will be robust to intended capacity. On the other hand, that intended capacity, shown perhaps most acutely in payload, is not that of previous series, and marginal for my use case of remote touring.

All of this signals to me that Toyota has taken aim at the weekender segment (the Wrangler, Bronco, and 4runner market) with a capable, mid-sized Land Cruiser designed for lower capacities than the mid-sized Land Cruisers that preceded it.

While seeing improved efficiency and range, the 250 seems to continue a decades-long, series-by-series diminishment of touring-relevant capacities among US market Land Cruisers.

* Edited to clarify 8.2” rather than previously shorthanded 8” diff, as this was causing some confusion (apologies).
 
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Is your cargo capacity including or excluding the third row seats for the 80, 100, and 200?
 
Is your cargo capacity including or excluding the third row seats?

Cargo volumes exclude the second (folded down) and third row seats (presumably folded up, or removed in the earlier series that have them).
 
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Interesting data. I wonder how much larger tires and lifts with compromised aerodynamics (though it is a brick already) will affect MPG and range as well. I know when I had an overweight 100 on 34s and later 35s, I would usually have to fuel up every 200-240 miles depending on terrain. Much less than the advertised 330 of course.

But even if you see a similar drop in MPG with typical offroad modifications and take the range from 414 down to maybe 300, that's not bad at all. Especially for most of us used to 200-250 mile range. In all my time offroading around the west, especially Utah, I've only found a few trails that are truly 200+ miles from a gas station. Those are the best trails of course. But it's often not that far to a gas station.

As far as international remote travel, no idea. I'm not an expert on Baja gas stations or crossing the Sahara etc.

But I think it brings up some other points pertaining to remote travel & the 250 -

- Ease of trail repairs?
- How likely is it that some sort of computer/ECU/electronic issue could leave you stranded?
- Weak points like the 100 front diff, 3rd gen Tacoma oiling issue on slopes, or the 3rd gen Tundra crankshaft bearing... obviously won't be apparent for a long time, if at all. Hopefully nothing serious.

I don't do well with this latest generation of hyper computerized vehicles. My go-to offroad vehicle at the moment is a 97 HDJ81 with a mechanical diesel and a decent 300 mile + range on 35s. I don't have a lot of creature comforts but it will be hard to replace it
 
Interesting data. I wonder how much larger tires and lifts with compromised aerodynamics (though it is a brick already) will affect MPG and range as well. I know when I had an overweight 100 on 34s and later 35s, I would usually have to fuel up every 200-240 miles depending on terrain. Much less than the advertised 330 of course.

But even if you see a similar drop in MPG with typical offroad modifications and take the range from 414 down to maybe 300, that's not bad at all. Especially for most of us used to 200-250 mile range. In all my time offroading around the west, especially Utah, I've only found a few trails that are truly 200+ miles from a gas station. Those are the best trails of course. But it's often not that far to a gas station.

As far as international remote travel, no idea. I'm not an expert on Baja gas stations or crossing the Sahara etc.

But I think it brings up some other points pertaining to remote travel & the 250 -

- Ease of trail repairs?
- How likely is it that some sort of computer/ECU/electronic issue could leave you stranded?
- Weak points like the 100 front diff, 3rd gen Tacoma oiling issue on slopes, or the 3rd gen Tundra crankshaft bearing... obviously won't be apparent for a long time, if at all. Hopefully nothing serious.

I don't do well with this latest generation of hyper computerized vehicles. My go-to offroad vehicle at the moment is a 97 HDJ81 with a mechanical diesel and a decent 300 mile + range on 35s. I don't have a lot of creature comforts but it will be hard to replace it
I hear ya. You and I think very similarly on this stuff. I’ve been stubbornly refusing to replace my 80s for decades. My optimism for this platform is waning.
 
I hear ya. You and I think very similarly on this stuff. I’ve been stubbornly refusing to replace my 80s for decades. My optimism for this platform is waning.
I see you have a Campteq, that's going to be really hard to beat for sure, sick setup

It's tough, I think the platform is cool. I'm a fan of underworked larger displacement engines with the option to boost the performance, rather than small displacement engines engineered to squeeze out the most power from the factory... I know I know EPA and MPG and all that. If anything I'd go for the GX550 to get the V6 option. But then again I have a hard time scratching up an $80K rig. It'll be fun to watch the early adopters and see how it goes. I hope it goes well.
 
Interesting data. I wonder how much larger tires and lifts with compromised aerodynamics (though it is a brick already) will affect MPG and range as well. I know when I had an overweight 100 on 34s and later 35s, I would usually have to fuel up every 200-240 miles depending on terrain. Much less than the advertised 330 of course.

But even if you see a similar drop in MPG with typical offroad modifications and take the range from 414 down to maybe 300, that's not bad at all. Especially for most of us used to 200-250 mile range. In all my time offroading around the west, especially Utah, I've only found a few trails that are truly 200+ miles from a gas station. Those are the best trails of course. But it's often not that far to a gas station.

As far as international remote travel, no idea. I'm not an expert on Baja gas stations or crossing the Sahara etc.

But I think it brings up some other points pertaining to remote travel & the 250 -

- Ease of trail repairs?
- How likely is it that some sort of computer/ECU/electronic issue could leave you stranded?
- Weak points like the 100 front diff, 3rd gen Tacoma oiling issue on slopes, or the 3rd gen Tundra crankshaft bearing... obviously won't be apparent for a long time, if at all. Hopefully nothing serious.

I don't do well with this latest generation of hyper computerized vehicles. My go-to offroad vehicle at the moment is a 97 HDJ81 with a mechanical diesel and a decent 300 mile + range on 35s. I don't have a lot of creature comforts but it will be hard to replace it
For range, I’ve legit needed 450 in Baja and Nevada. That’s sometimes for not wanting to go 50 miles off route and back for fuel, which matters. If we’re going to sacrifice engine simplicity for efficiency, then let’s at least leverage that efficiency for range. I’m tired of worrying about range… over it.
 
I'm sorry for your loss, TWILLY. It's not just that we lost the Land Cruiser here, but it's that we were told that we were getting it back and all of its HeRiTaGe, but turns out it's just a badge.

I too am pretty shattered by the confirmation of all that I have been worried about and told "to just wait for the US production version"

Well, here it is and I'm even less impressed by the results.
 
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Here are a few observations about touring-specific capacities of LC250, according to technical specifications for US models posted by OGBeno today (technical documentation in Technical Information Services).

My observations of capacities are relevant to my use case of remote touring / extended remote camping in places usually without fuel or fresh water. Payload capacity (for carrying food, water and people), efficiency and range (which relate to fuel capacity and payload), and cargo volume are all important.

I use previous series, beginning with the 80 series, to benchmark / contextualize the 250's capacities.

Payload
Payload is critical, and payload (gross vehicle weight - curb weight) listed in technical specifications is ~300 lbs less than specifications listed on Toyota's LC250 build website. This is an eyebrow-raising discrepancy. If for some reason the technical specifications are incorrect and website is correct, I may delete this post.

The table below shows curb, gross, and payload values (lbs) by model code and feature. For feature codes, see technical specifications.

Model CodeFeaturesCurbGrossPayload
TJH250L-GNZUZA536067251365
TJH250L-GNZAZA5,6545068351385
TJH250L-GNZAZA5,7553569201385
TJH250L-GNZAZA6540068351435
TJH250L-GNZAZA7549069001410
TJH250L-GNZAZA4,5,6549068351345
TJH250L-GNZAZA4,5,7557569451370
TJH250L-GNZAZA4,6544568351390
TJH250L-GNZAZA4,7553569451410

Payload is significantly less than previous US series. It is at best marginal for two people remote touring and wholly inadequate for remote touring with more than two people. Insofar as payload capacity signals the weight carrying capacity of platform components, the 250's payload capacity indicates that it is engineered to be less robust than preceding US market Land Cruiser series. This theme continues some below.

AUX FUEL FOR TOTAL 600 Mile Range
Series / YrFuel CapacityEst. Comb. MPGFuel WeightPayloadCargo Capacity (ft3)Range Miles/lb Fuel$/mile ($5/gal)Aux Fuel, GallonsAux Fuel, LbsPayload After Aux Fuel
80 / 9225.1011.006.101,930.00100276.100.14$0.4529.45179.621,750.38
100 / 200225.4013.006.101,745.0091330.200.19$0.3820.75126.601,618.40
200 / 202024.6014.006.101,570.0082344.400.22$0.3618.26111.371,458.63
250 / 202418.0023.006.101,380.0082414.000.30$0.228.0949.331,330.67

Cargo capacity is acceptable. I do not pack to the ceiling, so the two dimensional footprint (which Toyota does not publish [sq vs. cubic ft]) is the more relevant metric. The two-dimensional footprint (noting the battery bulge that taxes volume) exceeds the 200 series' and is probably closer to that of the 100 series in terms of square feet.

MPG is decent and much improved over previous series, at 23 combined, and I'm optimistic that the hybrid system, with more torque at lower speeds, will see less efficiency degradation at dirt touring speeds than previous series ICE motors. The hybrid platform yields diesel-like efficiency (and torque and power) which is fantastic for remote touring and much improved over previous series.

Range is inadequate but less inadequate than past series. Toyota's choice of a 18 gallon fuel tank is to blame. To achieve 600 miles of range (for example) the 250 requires less auxiliary fuel than previous series.

An interesting metric of combined (range, payload, efficiency, fuel capacity) remote touring capacities is available payload after auxiliary fuel weight for 600 miles of range; here, the 250's small payload and fuel capacity conspire to fall short of past series' payload after aux fuel weight.

Toyota's choice of the 8" rear differential gives me pause. On one hand, I am confident that it (and other running gear) will be robust to intended capacity. On the other hand, that intended capacity, shown perhaps most acutely in payload, is not that of previous series, and marginal for my use case of remote touring.

All of this signals to me that Toyota has taken aim at the weekender segment (the Wrangler, Bronco, and 4runner market) with a capable, mid-sized Land Cruiser designed for lower capacities than the mid-sized Land Cruisers that preceded it.

While seeing improved efficiency and range, the 250 seems to continue a decades-long, series-by-series diminishment of touring-relevant capacities among US market Land Cruisers.
Where do we get the 8 gallon auxiliary fuel tank for the GX 550? Is that a factory option?
 
Where do we get the 8 gallon auxiliary fuel tank for the GX 550? Is that a factory option?

That column indicates gallons of auxiliary fuel that would be required for each series to achieve 600 miles of range given their mileage and stock fuel capacity.

It does not indicate the availability of aux fuel tanks, and it does not analyze the GX550 (whose mileage and fuel capacity differ from the 250).

Does that make sense?
 
That column indicates gallons of auxiliary fuel that would be required for each series to achieve 600 miles of range given their mileage and stock fuel capacity.

It does not indicate the availability of aux fuel tanks, and it does not analyze the GX550 (whose mileage and fuel capacity differ from the 250).

Does that make sense?

It's a good metric - the way I look at it, the need for complete aux tank systems declines as you want to hit a certain range number. 2x 5 gallon jerries is easier to carry/install than an LRA.

As for electronics - if you're in a 100/120/150/200 and you're remote and it has a computer problem, are you able to fix those on the trail? For me there's not a difference between any of them for computerization because there's no trail fix. If it doesn't want to run, it won't run. 40/60/certain 80s, that's a different story.
 
Range is greater than my 80 so I'm not very concerned. It's rare in NA that I have to dump a jerry in my tank to complete any given trail. I pull a trailer more often than not so payload is no longer much of of a concern for me either. The 250 should make a fine overlander for my needs and the needs of most consumers. When it doesn't fit the bill I'll just take the 80-Series.
 
I'm sorry for your loss, TWILLY. It's not just that we lost the Land Cruiser here, but it's that we were told that we were getting it bacl and all of its HeRiTaGe, but turns out it's just a badge.

I too am pretty shattered by the confirmation of all that I have been worried about and told "to just wait for the US production version"

Well, here it is and I'm even less impressed by the results.
I’m not sure we’re being fair to the 250 in our comparisons. We’re stacking a Prado up against 4 past generations of the flagship Land Cruiser.

For those who are becoming disappointed in the launch version of the 250, how does it compare to the previous North American market GXs?
 
I’m not sure we’re being fair to the 250 in our comparisons. We’re stacking a Prado up against 4 past generations of the flagship Land Cruiser.

For those who are becoming disappointed in the launch version of the 250, how does it compare to the previous North American market GXs?
I'm sorry, the party line is that the LC250 is the de facto successor to the outgoing Land Cruiser model 200 series. But, now it's cheaper, just as capable with all of the previous Land Cruiser's HeRiTaGe, as reliable as the Land Cruisers of old, and comes with way more insta-book-tok cred.

Compare the GX460 to the GX550 all day long, but the LC250 needs to stand against the 200 series.
 
I'm sorry, the party line is that the LC250 is the de facto successor to the outgoing Land Cruiser model 200 series. But, now it's cheaper, just as capable with all of the previous Land Cruiser's HeRiTaGe, as reliable as the Land Cruisers of old, and comes with way more insta-book-tok cred.

Compare the GX460 to the GX550 all day long, but the LC250 needs to stand against the 200 series.
I would agree with you, @TheLCProject. I’m treading lightly, frankly, because many of us fell victim to an aggressive, organized dog pile in this forum for voicing our valid skepticism after the official announcement.
 
I would agree with you, @TheLCProject. I’m treading lightly, frankly, because many of us fell victim to an aggressive, organized dog pile in this forum for voicing our valid skepticism after the official announcement.
Yeah, but what about the microwave? I was promised an optional color matched $950 ARB + Yeti branded F'ing microwave!!

Seriously - it's highly disappointing. I was pretty confident it would share the rolling chassis with the GX. Why would Toyota neuter the Land Cruiser model when it will have a 4Runner on the same lot and the GX chassis is ready to go with the proper powertrain? It was seemingly a no-brainer to use the appropriate powertrain that's already built to have a north america land cruiser that stays true to heritage and justifies the price tag. I was sure wrong. It's the Land Cruiser nameplate without the Land Cruiser stuff. Toyota oversold and underdelivered.
 
Yeah, but what about the microwave? I was promised an optional color matched $950 ARB + Yeti branded F'ing microwave!!
😂 😂 😂
 
We made it into something it just plain isn't. I think I lost track of all the engine swaps along the way.
 
I'm sorry, the party line is that the LC250 is the de facto successor to the outgoing Land Cruiser model 200 series. But, now it's cheaper, just as capable with all of the previous Land Cruiser's HeRiTaGe, as reliable as the Land Cruisers of old, and comes with way more insta-book-tok cred.

Compare the GX460 to the GX550 all day long, but the LC250 needs to stand against the 200 series.
All you guys were whining that the 200 was overpriced and that Toyota needed to bring out a cheaper model. So Toyota does that and now you whine that Toyota cheapened it. 🤷‍♂️
 

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