The reality of the Landcruiser Head Gasket Issue (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter The Raven
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Blackstone: that's what I was looking for. All this talk about did you do this and this...
Oil analysis is cheap, the smartest way to start a "baseline" or baselining, and all it takes is the ability to pull the oil pan plug for a moment (or just do an oil change). Five minutes, less than $30 bucks, and you have more data than you'll know what to do with, in addition to knowing if your HG is on its way out. There are many analysis outfits, but Blackstone is down-to-earth and personal. My $0.02, yet again...
Quick question - any idea when Toyota released the improved head gasket for the 80?
I have a 1995 that had the head gasket replaced in 2002 with 110,000 miles at a Toyota service center in Quito, Ecuador. OEM parts and a Toyota master tech. Wasn't too expensive in Ecuador. No issues since.
Have always been curious if this replacement gasket was the improved version that will last for years to come.
My truck's head gasket blew driving at high altitude (over 10,000 feet) in the Andes with seven pax.
Thanks for any replies.
I have a 1995 that had the head gasket replaced in 2002 with 110,000 miles at a Toyota service center in Quito, Ecuador. OEM parts and a Toyota master tech. Wasn't too expensive in Ecuador. No issues since.
Have always been curious if this replacement gasket was the improved version that will last for years to come.
My truck's head gasket blew driving at high altitude (over 10,000 feet) in the Andes with seven pax.
Thanks for any replies.
196,000 miles on my beater '95. It lived a hard life before me, original head gasket. Keep the coolant in good shape, don't overheat it, and maintain the system. That's all I've got.
I got 248k miles on the original HG. There was only one day my truck started overheating in July and I cranked up the heat and it went down, it has never done it again. I have not ran compression tests or pulled the plugs on it yet to check anything. Changed the oil about a month ago and the used oil looked like the usual, just black and old. No plumes of white smoke out of the exhaust yet either. Have not done a coolant system flush or check yet for some years now...Starts up like a champ every time in any temperature and runs fine.
Str8Razor
SILVER Star
If you do the head gasket as maintenance should you send the head for rework and milling? Mines at 175k and would rather do pm than a failure rebuild....
Some thoughts on a few postings ... in reverse order.
a) Milling the cylinder head .... the 1997 FSM states that you should check the head for flatness ("Inspect For Flatness") on the cylinder block side and both manifold sides using a straight edge and a feeler gauge; and the MAX warpage for the block side is 0.15mm (0.0059in) and for manifold sides it is 0.10 (0.0039in) ... it says "if warpage is greater than the maximum, replace the cylinder head." it doesnt say mill the head or straighten the head - it says replace the head. HOWEVER I had my head milled (ie 'cleaned up', less than a 'c' hair) and it is fine (so far!) others have had the same done satisfactorily as well - FWIW.
b) Rad failure. Some believe that this is what causes overheating and eventual HG failure; I am NOT too certain!! I am of the opinion that many rads fail BECAUSE the HG is on the way out and the plastic/crimped upper inlet tank seal is blown due to too much pressure in the coolant from a build up of the exhaust gas released by the bad HG. In other words -- Rad failure isnt a cause of HG failure -- but an early symptom.
c) Dont be dismissive of morning, first start, smoke from your exhaust pipe. While it most often is just a normal occurrence under certain weather conditions -- it 'can' also be the result of a bad HG that is allowing coolant to seep/be sucked into the cylinder(s) when the engine cools after being shut down.
d) if you blow a HG --- best not to drive to far afterwards -- as antifreeze 'can' be tough on cylinder walls etc and is not a great lubricant once it gets beaten into an emulsion with your oil. The nice thing is that the engines are tough AND there is a huge amount of oil being pumped and squirted on the moving parts. I have often wondered how far you could drive this engine with just the oil cooling it!?!
e) I am always interested in hearing the measurements (and condition) on the torque to yield head bolts after removal for a blown HG. I am harboring a small suspicion that they may be 'part of the problem rather than part of the solution' and may be related to the common occurrence of blown HG around no. 6 cylinder (just like leaking gas tanks are related to the odd shape of the stamping on the top section of the fuel tank). Also funny things can happen in a assembly plant that might effect only one component due to the procedure or tool used for that specific component.I have worked in an automotive assembly plant and have witnessed this sort of thing first hand.
f) When you remove your head bolts (and also the bolts from the cam shafts) -- make sure you follow the FSM directions for the proper sequence and procedures to loosen them
a) Milling the cylinder head .... the 1997 FSM states that you should check the head for flatness ("Inspect For Flatness") on the cylinder block side and both manifold sides using a straight edge and a feeler gauge; and the MAX warpage for the block side is 0.15mm (0.0059in) and for manifold sides it is 0.10 (0.0039in) ... it says "if warpage is greater than the maximum, replace the cylinder head." it doesnt say mill the head or straighten the head - it says replace the head. HOWEVER I had my head milled (ie 'cleaned up', less than a 'c' hair) and it is fine (so far!) others have had the same done satisfactorily as well - FWIW.
b) Rad failure. Some believe that this is what causes overheating and eventual HG failure; I am NOT too certain!! I am of the opinion that many rads fail BECAUSE the HG is on the way out and the plastic/crimped upper inlet tank seal is blown due to too much pressure in the coolant from a build up of the exhaust gas released by the bad HG. In other words -- Rad failure isnt a cause of HG failure -- but an early symptom.
c) Dont be dismissive of morning, first start, smoke from your exhaust pipe. While it most often is just a normal occurrence under certain weather conditions -- it 'can' also be the result of a bad HG that is allowing coolant to seep/be sucked into the cylinder(s) when the engine cools after being shut down.
d) if you blow a HG --- best not to drive to far afterwards -- as antifreeze 'can' be tough on cylinder walls etc and is not a great lubricant once it gets beaten into an emulsion with your oil. The nice thing is that the engines are tough AND there is a huge amount of oil being pumped and squirted on the moving parts. I have often wondered how far you could drive this engine with just the oil cooling it!?!
e) I am always interested in hearing the measurements (and condition) on the torque to yield head bolts after removal for a blown HG. I am harboring a small suspicion that they may be 'part of the problem rather than part of the solution' and may be related to the common occurrence of blown HG around no. 6 cylinder (just like leaking gas tanks are related to the odd shape of the stamping on the top section of the fuel tank). Also funny things can happen in a assembly plant that might effect only one component due to the procedure or tool used for that specific component.I have worked in an automotive assembly plant and have witnessed this sort of thing first hand.
f) When you remove your head bolts (and also the bolts from the cam shafts) -- make sure you follow the FSM directions for the proper sequence and procedures to loosen them
I wish I had a Koso guage before I blew mine, and I wouldn't have warped the head. I think there are some pm things that can be done to minimize damage but if your not paying attention to temp as best as possible it can happen to any in my opinion no matter your mileage or engine condition. It's along surface area and coolant can find its way in somehow if there's breakdown in gasket like near the egr or hot temps and old materials.
I wouldn't have the head off without having at least the valve stem seals replaced.
Why wouldn't you would be the better question. Short of not having the funds it just doesn't make sense not to have the head freshened up if you have it off. Its not like your going to be back in there anytime soon. Plus once you see how nasty everything looks in there you will want someone to give it the once over.
Unless you drove for a significant time with no coolant -- Do you think a better coolant gauge would have made a difference? My inclination is that it would not have made a difference. I guess I have mentioned a few times -- I am very suspicious that the recurrence of blown HG is related to faulty TTY headbolts (metallurgy) and or faulty installation procedures associated with the TTY bolts. The very high incidence of failure at about 10 o'clock at the #6 cylinder is curious ... and unexplained.
LINUS
Waiting for the Great Pumpkin
The R&R of the stem seals yes - but you would want to make sure with any shop you take it to that they know what you're doing - so they don't mill it just to put some pretty crosshatch marks on it so they can justify a certain billable amount & make their monthly payment on the shop mill.
Im at 250k with the original head gasket. I dont think the head gasket itself is the issue with these engines. The issue is the problem prone cooling system and the EGR SYSTEM.
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My temp and oil pressure guage had been out....So I had no indicator that my engine was running hot. It was January and I was hunting when I noticed my heater started blowing cold. At the time I thought that's weird. Later on in my trip half way home on 6 hour drive at about 70 miles an hour I noticed the steam coming from coolant resivoir area. Im sure it was blowing slowly but had I had an accurate coolant temp reading I could have pulled over way sooner maybe threw some bars stop leak in and limped for awhile and I would have been able to just do the HG instead of sourcing a newer engine. The top head block is $1600 from Toyota. Im just saying if you can monitor temps real time instead of s***ty Toyota guage it "may" help prevent some overheat issues like a warped block that cost me.
Understood. It is an interesting occurrence but I have seen properly function temp sending units and gauges read '0' degrees when the engine has lost all the coolant. I guess what I am saying is that the gauge has to be watched (and acted on) when any reading seems unusual. I certainly cannot disagree that the total loss of coolant contributed to the warpage. But I still believe that the failure of the HG leads to the overheating problem...not vice versa. Sorry you had such a major PITA problem and cost!!!
Any gauge cannot read correct and heater won't pump heat if little or no coolant is in system. Also OEM 80 series gauge is center bias and really should be modified or augmented with an accurate aftermarket gauge for proper monitoring on the older ECM rigs since we don't have the convenience of running a scan gauge. Although even with proper monitoring equipment, blowing cold heater is strong evidence to check cooling system asap. Not trying to monday morning QB this, but sometimes learning the hard way is the best teacher. Don't ask how I know...lol.
You need to realize that the original gasket is flawed. The Gov't outlawed asbestos just before the release of this engine. All companies were affected by this. So comparing older cars with no issues doesn't apply as well as newer ones as by then the manufacturers figured things out.
Every 80 that I've owned, and its been quite a few, get a HG job right out of the gate. If there hasn't been a failure, the head is pulled, cleaned, sealed and slapped back on. This was recently done on an engine with 295k on it and now sports a SC. Doesn't burn any oil and runs great.
Since this thread was posted I was in the original HG no issues 180k. New radiator, thermistat, landtank fan clutch. She ran cool as a cucumber all the time. 180 to 185.
Last week out of the blue I got the rough start a few times but no temp issues. By Thursday all hell broke lose and I started seeing 190 temps. Then 200. Then 215.
She's my daily driver and I had a week of travel out of town for this week planned so it was as good of time as ever to be down for a week. I was a mile from my dealership when it hit 220. Got it there with the heat on high.
Sure enough. It blew.
So now I'm part of the club.
97 Lexus. 185k.
Ran flawlessly and expect it to when I get it back.
Last week out of the blue I got the rough start a few times but no temp issues. By Thursday all hell broke lose and I started seeing 190 temps. Then 200. Then 215.
She's my daily driver and I had a week of travel out of town for this week planned so it was as good of time as ever to be down for a week. I was a mile from my dealership when it hit 220. Got it there with the heat on high.
Sure enough. It blew.
So now I'm part of the club.
97 Lexus. 185k.
Ran flawlessly and expect it to when I get it back.
Let us know if it failed at #6. I always have been suspect of TTY on any head and the EGR dumping into #6 is no help.
ARP studs, a good gasket, and EGR delete and I bet nobody has a headgasket problem again.
what are the effects of EGR removal regarding HG longevity?
