The Mother-In-Law... Build thread, Intro, and request for guidance ('03 LX470) (1 Viewer)

[JJ_SC]

The only thing that might need more consideration is the lift. I want larger tires, so at a minimum the AHC is going to have to get tricked into High mode, but if an actual lift is better then I'll do that. If I can save the $ on a lift by tricking the system and it will still perform fine, then I'm good with that.

A suspension lift won't help you run bigger tires. It's IFS, so you'll still have to do the pinch weld mod and body lift if you want to go bigger than about 33s. More or less. 275/70 r18, or some variation thereof, are about the max you can go. Even if you lift it 2.5" (and those will still fit underneath, if you're worried about that.)

 

[spc7669]

Great looking truck and plan. Ya lost me at the 10k number. I’ve got that into mine in 10 months and not gotten one fun mod done yet. I think of my cruiser as an ex wife who caught me banging the Divorce Court judge’s daughter. I get paid. She takes it from me. Rinse and repeat.

 

[jahawk]

Do you have a pic of your set up? Running the factory wheels, or aftermarket?

In this pic the truck is in N and the front is adjusted up about an inch and the rear down the same. 275/70/18 KO2's on Tundra steel rims.

 

[CPC]

A suspension lift won't help you run bigger tires. It's IFS, so you'll still have to do the pinch weld mod and body lift if you want to go bigger than about 33s. More or less. 275/70 r18, or some variation thereof, are about the max you can go. Even if you lift it 2.5" (and those will still fit underneath, if you're worried about that.)

I understand the concept, and I don't necessarily disagree. I do agree that the axis of rotation doesn't change, but the static height of the truck does change. Thus, a larger tire can be run on the street, but there MIGHT be some clearance issues off road. My queston would be this: If you change the static height/start point, can the tire actually stuff into the wheelwell the same amount as if you hadn't changed the start point? I'm guessing not, since you are either clocking the TB (adding more preload), or adding one with a higher spring rate that would take more to compress. Potentially more than the weight of the truck would provide. Overall you aren't changing the distance of the axis of rotation in relation to the body of the truck, but the "start" point changes. You would have to have a suspension lowering kit (ie, like a 1/2 ton Ford, or any Chevy lift kit) to actually change the distance of the arc from the body. Sometimes this change in start point does indeed allow for a larger tire than stock by keeping it out of the fenders on full compression. Thank you for the info on tire size. I think that will probably be about what I'm going to run.

Great looking truck and plan. Ya lost me at the 10k number. I’ve got that into mine in 10 months and not gotten one fun mod done yet. I think of my cruiser as an ex wife who caught me banging the Divorce Court judge’s daughter. I get paid. She takes it from me. Rinse and repeat.

That's funny...

View attachment 2498751
In this pic the truck is in N and the front is adjusted up about an inch and the rear down the same. 275/70/18 KO2's on Tundra steel rims.

Thanks for the pic. Did you just crank the TBs up front? How did you lower the rear and inch?

 

[LXKevin]

Suspension guidance: Keep the AHC if your system is in good shape

then

buy a miniVCI cable Amazon product ASIN B087CZDF4H

How-To: TechStream In 5 Minutes

Getting Techstream up and running can be a bit of a pain. Hopefully this helps someone get started quickly. Step 1: Purchase an OBD-II / Mini-VCI interface. - I have sold out of my cables and supply chains are back in order, so no reason to purchase more. Anything like this will work: Mini-VCI...

forum.ih8mud.com

The ABCs of AHC - How to Measure, Flush, and Adjust all in one place

I initially put this in the Definitive list of AHC maintenance items thread, but at almost 800 posts long and growing, it's going to get buried and the thread itself is very unwieldy. In an attempt to make as focused a summary as possible, I present "The ABCs of AHC." It's intended as a...

forum.ih8mud.com

Then sensor lifts, which are done by simply mechanically adjusting the three ride height sensors . There is one each at front driver, front passenger, and one that controls the rear.

AHC Sensor Adjustment for Lift

To level the truck you have to work corner to corner. If the PS rear is high you need to crank on the DS torsion bar. I'd try a turn or two at a time, and run it through all heights and check. Jim

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[JJ_SC]

I understand the concept, and I don't necessarily disagree. I do agree that the axis of rotation doesn't change, but the static height of the truck does change. Thus, a larger tire can be run on the street, but there MIGHT be some clearance issues off road. My queston would be this: If you change the static height/start point, can the tire actually stuff into the wheelwell the same amount as if you hadn't changed the start point? I'm guessing not, since you are either clocking the TB (adding more preload), or adding one with a higher spring rate that would take more to compress. Potentially more than the weight of the truck would provide. Overall you aren't changing the distance of the axis of rotation in relation to the body of the truck, but the "start" point changes. You would have to have a suspension lowering kit (ie, like a 1/2 ton Ford, or any Chevy lift kit) to actually change the distance of the arc from the body. Sometimes this change in start point does indeed allow for a larger tire than stock by keeping it out of the fenders on full compression. Thank you for the info on tire size. I think that will probably be about what I'm going to run.

Yeah - you get it. The nuances of IFS...

The collective experience here on Mud seems to be that running the bigger tire on the road, to the mall, works fine. But, it does in fact stuff into the fender on full compression offroad when fully flexed, even with a 2.5" suspension lift. Look up @spressomon's build thread. I think he's got a dented fender to prove it. But, the fix to allow those bigger tires isn't that hard to accomplish. It's just that suspension alone won't get you there. SO, if you're looking to stay under 10K, keeping the AHC and sticking with 33s avoids a big rabbit hole and saves a lot of money. You can lift it by about an inch over stock height for free just by moving the sensor up. For that matter, you can hammer the pinch weld for free too and add a 1" body lift for hardly nothing. I guess what I'm saying is, you don't have to put a ton of money into shocks and torsion bars and rip out AHC to run the big tires. Just depends on what you want to do with the truck in the end.

 

[CPC]

Suspension guidance: Keep the AHC if your system is in good shape

then

buy a miniVCI cable Amazon product ASIN B087CZDF4H

How-To: TechStream In 5 Minutes

Getting Techstream up and running can be a bit of a pain. Hopefully this helps someone get started quickly. Step 1: Purchase an OBD-II / Mini-VCI interface. - I have sold out of my cables and supply chains are back in order, so no reason to purchase more. Anything like this will work: Mini-VCI...

forum.ih8mud.com

The ABCs of AHC - How to Measure, Flush, and Adjust all in one place

I initially put this in the Definitive list of AHC maintenance items thread, but at almost 800 posts long and growing, it's going to get buried and the thread itself is very unwieldy. In an attempt to make as focused a summary as possible, I present "The ABCs of AHC." It's intended as a...

forum.ih8mud.com

Then sensor lifts, which are done by simply mechanically adjusting the three ride height sensors . There is one each at front driver, front passenger, and one that controls the rear.

AHC Sensor Adjustment for Lift

To level the truck you have to work corner to corner. If the PS rear is high you need to crank on the DS torsion bar. I'd try a turn or two at a time, and run it through all heights and check. Jim

forum.ih8mud.com

Excellent info, and exactly what I need. Thanks!

Yeah - you get it. The nuances of IFS...

The collective experience here on Mud seems to be that running the bigger tire on the road, to the mall, works fine. But, it does in fact stuff into the fender on full compression offroad when fully flexed, even with a 2.5" suspension lift. Look up @spressomon's build thread. I think he's got a dented fender to prove it. But, the fix to allow those bigger tires isn't that hard to accomplish. It's just that suspension alone won't get you there. SO, if you're looking to stay under 10K, keeping the AHC and sticking with 33s avoids a big rabbit hole and saves a lot of money. You can lift it by about an inch over stock height for free just by moving the sensor up. For that matter, you can hammer the pinch weld for free too and add a 1" body lift for hardly nothing. I guess what I'm saying is, you don't have to put a ton of money into shocks and torsion bars and rip out AHC to run the big tires. Just depends on what you want to do with the truck in the end.

Excellent advice as well. I think I'm leaning towards keeping the AHC since it is the less expensive route, and requires less changes to achieve lift. Thanks for you input.

 

[CPC]

A couple of questions/thoughts:

Sounds like I can go ahead and order the tire/wheel package since the tire size won't really be able to be sized up even if I set the AHC at a higher ride height. It also sounds like a roughly 33" tire is the max.

1. I'm leaning towards a 16" or 17" wheel (likely 17"), so is an 8.5" wide with -0 offset the best option? I see in some of the other threads that there are some issues with centercaps fitting the front depending on the wheel style, so I'll try and take that into account when making the decision on the style.
2. Does a 33x12.2, 33x12.5, or a 33.5x11.9 (actual) tire fit without rubbing, assuming an 8.5" wide -0 offset wheel? Toyo has a 305/70r16MT (33x12.2) and a 33x12.50r17MT (32.8x12.5). They also have 11.5-11.6 wide options in those same heights by going with their 285 series tire, but if I can with the wider option I would prefer that.

In regards to the ARB front bumper (part 3413190), what needs to be done to get it to fit on an LX, and does a Smittybilt 12K Gen 3 XRC or Gen 2 X2O winch fit in that bumper? Does anyone have the foglight kit installed in their ARB bumper, and is the extra light substantial, or not much of a difference?

 

[JJ_SC]

Good thread about the 305s here: 305/65/18 BFG KO2 Pics

 

[SlowBuild]

IMHO, ideal offset is +25. Lower than that sticks out past your fender and starts to increase rubbing. Stock is +60, which performs perfectly.

Toyota engineers generally got it right. In most cases, best option is to stick with what is factory unless you have specific performance goals to achieve. Those gains will always come at a cost/compromise.

On the other hand, if it’s mainly aesthetic then by all means. Do what you like. I think the best performance you’ll get driving pavement and forest roads is the factory setup with 275/70r18 ATs and a headlight upgrade, maybe sliders. Beyond that almost everything else is a downgrade unless dictated by future use, which so far it sounds like is not the case.

Also, I’ll second what’s above. 33s will fit with almost any suspension setup including the one you currently have. 34s will fit with minor trimming regardless of suspension. 35s can be a can of worms depending on how much rubbing you’re okay with. A proper suspension lift will have no impact on the size tires you can fit, they’ll still compress along the same path. Extended bump stops will help but limit your already minimal travel up front. Body lift will help but.....

 

[CPC]

IMHO, ideal offset is +25. Lower than that sticks out past your fender and starts to increase rubbing. Stock is +60, which performs perfectly.

Toyota engineers generally got it right. In most cases, best option is to stick with what is factory unless you have specific performance goals to achieve. Those gains will always come at a cost/compromise.

On the other hand, if it’s mainly aesthetic then by all means. Do what you like. I think the best performance you’ll get driving pavement and forest roads is the factory setup with 275/70r18 ATs and a headlight upgrade, maybe sliders. Beyond that almost everything else is a downgrade unless dictated by future use, which so far it sounds like is not the case.

Also, I’ll second what’s above. 33s will fit with almost any suspension setup including the one you currently have. 34s will fit with minor trimming regardless of suspension. 35s can be a can of worms depending on how much rubbing you’re okay with. A proper suspension lift will have no impact on the size tires you can fit, they’ll still compress along the same path. Extended bump stops will help but limit your already minimal travel up front. Body lift will help but.....

Getting on the handy 1010 tires wheel offset calculator I see that a -0 offset, 8.5" wide wheel will stick the wheel out 66mm (~2.6") further than they currently sit. If I can find a wheel with a +25 offset like you have suggested that would put the wheel about 1.6" further out than stock. That may indeed be ideal. Now the trick is to find the right wheel. If anyone has a set up with a -0 or a +25 offset please post a pic. I'd like to see how they compare.

Thanks for your input on this. I think it's pretty much decided that I'll go with a 33" tire. It also sounds like a could do a 33x12.50 without clearance issues, and it should look nice and fat on the wheel. Aesthetics are certainly a contributing factor to this build, so filling up the wheel well some is welcomed. I don't really want to open the whole can of worms as you warned, so we will start here and see if that is sufficient. Thanks again.

 

[SlowBuild]

Not a lot of options. The discussion below has a little about it. @Seth7843 ended up with the Alphaequipt. They look great. Maybe a +25 or +35 option I don’t remember now:

I have searched and read many threads on the subject but can't find an exact answer. I am planning on putting 285/75/17 KO2s (basically a 34" tire that is 11.3" wide) on my LX470. I am looking at Alphaequipt wheels which are 8.5" wide. Would i be better off going with a +25 or +35 offset wheel?

These are mine. Evo Corse+40, which I think is about perfect:

There’s not a ton of these wheels on this site so here’s a few to add:

Evo Corse Dakar Zero 17x8 ET40 in Anthracite.
Cooper ST Maxx 285/75r17
2006 LX470 w/ 3/4” AHC lift
Center hub to fender 20.5” front, 21.25” rear

FWIW, I measured the tires, mounted with the weight of the truck on them, at 33 3/8”, 47psi from the tire shop. Offset puts tire almost exactly flush with the fender, wheel slightly in. I wouldn’t want more.

The wheels just arrived in exactly 10 weeks, as promised. Pretty amazing since they manufacture and ship from Italy.

The tires definitely rub at the pinch weld and maybe on the corners of the stock bumper while turning. I’ll investigate in the next couple days. Also, I have a 5th set but I’m pretty sure it won’t fit underneath, time for a bumper maybe. For now I have a 33” KO2 underneath.

View attachment 2260920
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FWIW, if you like 17s then rock Warriors are real popular. Not ideal offset though. I read a recent thread mentioned them being forged but I’m not sure that’s true, honestly can’t remember.

Best bang for the buck and also probably the strongest wheels available might be the stock ones that came on your truck. Again, swapping is likely a downgrade unless there’s a specific goal in mind. Consider just repainting maybe? These options are all a lot of money for an extra 1/2” of sidewall but no real height gain. $10k is tight for all you listed.

 

[CPC]

Not a lot of options. The discussion below has a little about it. @Seth7843 ended up with the Alphaequipt. They look great. Maybe a +25 or +35 option I don’t remember now:



These are mine. Evo Corse+40, which I think is about perfect:




FWIW, if you like 17s then rock Warriors are real popular. Not ideal offset though. I read a recent thread mentioned them being forged but I’m not sure that’s true, honestly can’t remember.

Best bang for the buck and also probably the strongest wheels available might be the stock ones that came on your truck. Again, swapping is likely a downgrade unless there’s a specific goal in mind. Consider just repainting maybe? These options are all a lot of money for an extra 1/2” of sidewall but no real height gain. $10k is tight for all you listed.

That's a good looking set up. Thanks for sharing. I think I'm pretty much settled on 33x12.50r17 Toyo MT on Icon Rebound or Method Con 6. Both of those wheels are available in 17x8.5 and the Icon has +25 offset while the Method has +35 offset.

 

[TexsunFU]

Nothing fancy, but this is what 275 70r18 looks like on factory suspension.

 

[LXKevin]

285 75 16 Coopers

 

[CPC]

285 75 16 Coopers with rattle can refinished factory 16" alloys. Front AHC sensors are adjusted (shortened) as much as possible without cutting them and added 30 mil. spacers on top the factory rear springs. I've since lowered the rear AHC sensor a smidge to level the stance to within an inch diff from the front.

View attachment 2500333

Looks good. Trying to get my head around your lift set up. Sensor adjustment/lift in the front netted about 1" or so I assume, and then you added the 30mm spacers in the back instead of adjusting the rear sensors. Then you adjusted the rear sensor the OPPOSITE way you adjusted the front sensors, thus lowering the rear a touch. Any reason you did the spring spacers out back instead of just adjusting the rear sensor in the same way you adjusted the front sensors?

 

[CPC]

Nothing fancy, but this is what 275 70r18 looks like on factory suspension.

Cool pic, but a little tough to see since the sun is essentially in the viewer's eyes. What wheels are you running?

 

[LXKevin]

My stock rear springs are tired (as are most with 168k on the odometer) which caused a little high AHC pressure so i added the 30 mil spacers as a stop gap to bring pressures within stock values, which they did. Originally I had my rear sensor maxed all the way up causing too much rake after adding the spacers. I have read here that a rake of near 1" is ideal. I no longer measure changes with a tape. I go by eye but mostly changes to AHC presures when adjusting. 5 minutes and a ten mill to adjust the rear sensor so it's easily a trial and error process then test drive till i settled where i'm at. I wanted to upgrade the rear to King stock height springs but was told by several wholesalers on ebay & in Australia they were not shipping to the U.S. at the time (a couple months ago) because Covid. I will upgrade to King KTRS-79 springs in the future because i'm going to add a drawer system and will need the higher spring rate. They may be shipping now so look into it as a first option if your rear AHC pressure values are high and or you are adding weight.

 

[CPC]

My stock rear springs are tired (as are most with 168k on the odometer) which caused a little high AHC pressure so i added the 30 mil spacers as a stop gap to bring pressures within stock values, which they did. Originally I had my rear sensor maxed all the way up causing too much rake after adding the spacers. I have read here that a rake of near 1" is ideal. I no longer measure changes with a tape. I go by eye but mostly changes to AHC presures when adjusting. 5 minutes and a ten mill to adjust the rear sensor so it's easily a trial and error process then test drive till i settled where i'm at. I wanted to upgrade the rear to King stock height springs but was told by several wholesalers on ebay & in Australia they were not shipping to the U.S. at the time (a couple months ago) because Covid. I will upgrade to King KTRS-79 springs in the future because i'm going to add a drawer system and will need the higher spring rate. They may be shipping now so look into it as a first option if your rear AHC pressure values are high and or you are adding weight.

Yeah, but who in the hell can ever find their 10mm?!!!! I swear I have 4 of them and I only have a vague idea where one might be... but, I digress...

Thanks for that explanation. I need to get the cable so I can check the values of the AHC. Then I can start tinkering with the suspension. I'm curious if the rear pressure is high on this one since the mileage is around the same as yours.

 

[LXKevin]

Yeah, but who in the hell can ever find their 10mm?!!!! I swear I have 4 of them and I only have a vague idea where one might be... but, I digress...

Thanks for that explanation. I need to get the cable so I can check the values of the AHC. Then I can start tinkering with the suspension. I'm curious if the rear pressure is high on this one since the mileage is around the same as yours.

That's the right answer. Get the cable. Download the Techstream and you are on your way to making informed decisions. The adjusting part is cake. My front and rear were both out of spec and i would be surprised if your's was perfect. Adding spacers or changing the springs is also cake. Another option some guys run is air bags in the rear for heavy loads and or towing. Everything i know i learned here at Mud and by laying with the truck. You are in the right spot and good luck.