The future of bullbars?

[my02]

So is speeding, drink driving etc, etc, does this mean all comply???

Fair call, but you have to be "measured" to be caught out for those. Fishing rod holders are pretty damn obvious to see!

There must be a niche for a suitably safe alternative........

 

[Josie'sLandCruiser]

Hi All:

I'm sorry to hear that you folks in OZ have to deal this kind of BS!

I heard that there has been a ban on "Bull bars" in the UK over the last few years; I like the UK and the British population, but the laws in that country boggle the mind alot of the time!

I have an ARB-brand winch 'bar on my daily driver (1991 Isuzu Trooper, aka Jackaroo, etc.) that "defeated" a VW Golf in a head-on acident, with little real damage to the 'bar. These bumpers are well worth the money AFAIC!

The reality is *any* motor vehicle hitting a pedestrian will be "bad news" for the pedestrian!

Regards,

Alan

 

[Syndrome]

I have an ARB-brand winch 'bar on my daily driver (1991 Isuzu Trooper, aka Jackaroo, etc.) that "defeated" a VW Golf in a head-on acident, with little real damage to the 'bar. These bumpers are well worth the money AFAIC!

How badly injured was the Golf driver, or was it an extremely low-speed impact? I bet they didn't appreciate you having bullbars...or they wished they'd had them too, in which case you'd be complaining about the damage your vehicle suffered as a result.

The reality is *any* motor vehicle hitting a pedestrian will be "bad news" for the pedestrian!

The reality is that bullbars were originally devised to prevent damage to vehicles on rural roads should they collide with an animal. The well-being of the animal was not considered. Of course, that was back in the days before urban residents felt their manhood was in question if they only drove a city car.

Now you have inappropriate vehicle-types with inappropriate attachments and accessories being driven daily on densely packed city streets, or urban and semi-urban highways. When they collide with vehicles more suited to those environs they cause considerable damage and inflict severe injuries.

If I attempted to take a Miata offroad I know the kind of comments I'd get...yet people drive around cities in vehicles which are plainly suited for -- designed for! -- offroad use, and impractical, uncomfortable and uneconomic almost anywhere else, including, if not especially, city streets.

Okay, I've expressed my unpopular opinion...flame away.

 

[roscoFJ73]

How badly injured was the Golf driver, or was it an extremely low-speed impact? I bet they didn't appreciate you having bullbars...or they wished they'd had them too, in which case you'd be complaining about the damage your vehicle suffered as a result.




The reality is that bullbars were originally devised to prevent damage to vehicles on rural roads should they collide with an animal. The well-being of the animal was not considered. Of course, that was back in the days before urban residents felt their manhood was in question if they only drove a city car.

Now you have inappropriate vehicle-types with inappropriate attachments and accessories being driven daily on densely packed city streets, or urban and semi-urban highways. When they collide with vehicles more suited to those environs they cause considerable damage and inflict severe injuries.

If I attempted to take a Miata offroad I know the kind of comments I'd get...yet people drive around cities in vehicles which are plainly suited for -- designed for! -- offroad use, and impractical, uncomfortable and uneconomic almost anywhere else, including, if not especially, city streets.

Okay, I've expressed my unpopular opinion...flame away.

Your lumping everyone together. I drive a Volvo around the city and the landcruser takes me out of city.
By the time I have gone 20klms I am into areas heavily populated by roos and farm animals.
When I do drive my dangerous monster truck around the suburbs,I do so at a sedate pace and if there is an accident it will surely b the other perosns fault.

Shouldnt you be on the knitting forum or somewhere.

 

[Bluey]

Your lumping everyone together. I drive a Volvo around the city and the landcruser takes me out of city.
By the time I have gone 20klms I am into areas heavily populated by roos and farm animals.
When I do drive my dangerous monster truck around the suburbs,I do so at a sedate pace and if there is an accident it will surely b the other perosns fault.

Shouldnt you be on the knitting forum or somewhere.

i have just deleted a message i wrote that took me 10 mins to write. suffice to say that any 4wd designed and built from the mid 90's on is not uncortable, uneconomic impracticle blah blah when driven in a city. in fact my 80 series is a whole lot better than the "family car" - holden commodore v6 3.8l 7 seater, and yes that includes fuel economy and repair/maintenance costs

a couple of quick quotes for you:

"The proportion of road fatalities that are pedestrians varies considerably across developed nations. It ranges from 13% in the USA to 28% in the UK and Japan. The average for Europe is 16% and the proportion in Australia is 18%."

and for instance in the state of Victoria, Aus last year

Pedestrian statistics

A total of 48 pedestrians were killed on Victorian roads in 2005, which represents 14% of all fatalities.

Chart of the number of pedestrians killed on Victorian roads each year.

Three pedestrian groups are particularly vulnerable: the young, the elderly and the intoxicated.

Of the accidents resulting in the death of a pedestrian in 2005:

*
69% were on metropolitan roads,
*
54% were on roads signposted at 50km/h, and
*
58% occurred during high alcohol times.

Common types of crashes resulting in pedestrian deaths in 2005 involved a pedestrian:

*
playing, working, lying or standing on the carriageway (27%),
*
being struck from the far side (21%), and
*
crossing the road and being struck from the near side (13%).

 

[nickw]

I am sure glad Canada allows bull bars.
Allready saved me when I hit an elk.
Truck was fine, elk was not.

Regardless, bullbar or not. People are still going to get badly hurt if hit.

I think the insurance companies should look at how much money the bull bars save them. Saved from making a claim. Only problem is: they can't tell how much money it saves them, until they see all claims.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,
Nick

 

[Syndrome]

I drive a Volvo around the city and the landcruser takes me out of city.

I was really referring to the guy whose LC is his "daily driver".

...if there is an accident it will surely b the other perosns fault.

Naturally.

Shouldnt you be on the knitting forum or somewhere.

I work construction on a high mountain site. It's a lot higher than the highest peak in Australia. Access is via what is, at best, a track. Most people refuse to drive it, including many 4x4 club members I know. It's a scary and difficult piece of rock. When I'm not on the mountain, I drive my wife's Toyota Mark II.

As far as I'm concerned, 4x4's don't belong on bitumen. My comments were aimed at those who drive to theeir white collar job in offroad behemoths. But hey, whatever, so long as it keeps your self-esteem right up there, huh?

 

[bigbrowndog]

I work construction on a high mountain site. It's a lot higher than the highest peak in Australia. Access is via what is, at best, a track. Most people refuse to drive it, including many 4x4 club members I know. It's a scary and difficult piece of rock. When I'm not on the mountain, I drive my wife's Toyota Mark II.

As far as I'm concerned, 4x4's don't belong on bitumen. My comments were aimed at those who drive to theeir white collar job in offroad behemoths. But hey, whatever, so long as it keeps your self-esteem right up there, huh?
.......................................................
10 post up and not one that is of any help to anyone and you are tipping the bucket on blokes allready. ROTFL. You must be a barrel of laughs to be around when you not happy.Must be the water or the air on the highest mountain or from being snowed in 8 months a year.If the white collar workers don't measure up to your standard just cut them some slack some of the blokes I have worked with in construction were not quite ready for NASA either. I am sure Harold would love to hear from you.http://www.walk.com.au/pedestriancouncil/page.asp

 

[ridgerunner]

The reality is that bullbars were originally devised to prevent damage to vehicles on rural roads should they collide with an animal. The well-being of the animal was not considered. Of course, that was back in the days before urban residents felt their manhood was in question if they only drove a city car.

I've never (knock on wood) hit a person with my truck. I have, however, bowled over a herd of deer within city limits. Not having a bullbar on the front of my truck did neither of the two deer I killed on the spot, nor I any good.

 

[roscoFJ73]

I work construction on a high mountain site. It's a lot higher than the highest peak in Australia. Access is via what is, at best, a track. Most people refuse to drive it, including many 4x4 club members I know. It's a scary and difficult piece of rock. When I'm not on the mountain, I drive my wife's Toyota Mark II.

If its too scary and difficult maybe you would be better off as a postman
I had a scary job too as a rigger and scaffolder working on towers through the mountains.
Doenst matter how high you are really,once it goes over 15 metres your a goner anyway

 

[Grench]

dangerous work hijack

If its too scary and difficult maybe you would be better off as a postman
I had a scary job too as a rigger and scaffolder working on towers through the mountains.
Doenst matter how high you are really,once it goes over 15 metres your a goner anyway

I used to do vertical concrete form construction. 1-3 stories up bothered me the most because it would hurt the most to fall. After 3, it wasn't a question of hurt. Being high enough to be certain of dying in a fall actually is kind of calming by comparison since it removes the uncertainty of the outcome.
/hijack off/

I have a thread over in the 80s tech discussing bumper options for my wife's grocery getter / kid taxi / family road vacation stocker FZJ80.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=108646

I'm 90% sure that the bumper in question here is a 'Smartbar'.
These polythylene bumpers are a different animal.
http://www.teampoly.com.au/Pages/Pro.../smartbar.html

They have models to fit a wide variety of vehicles and include winch mounting plates in some.

With my scenario, wife's truck, prone to low speed bumps into static objects this bumper actually sounded like a good idea. She isn't bashing rocks or going through the outback. She has pushed in the factory bumper a bit so its time to change it out for something that is built to spring back.

So, I looked into getting one. I could buy two ARB bars and have them shipped to me for the cost of importing one Smartbar to the US. It is the only front end solution I've found that is more expensive than a factory replacement bumper.

So, how much do these cost for those of you in countries where they're becoming the only option? Has anyone hit an animal with one to tell what the effectiveness is? The 70 one looks goofy as hell. At least the 80 version looks like a traditional bar.

I've been looking for additional information on these for over a month and have come up empty. Any tidbits you guys can add or resources you can point me to would be appreciated.

Thank you!

 

[Wayne BJ73]

Hi there

Hi there all

I am back - been away for a while.

These plastic bars are all the rage now with the mining companies in SA - and they are working reall well.

The older solid steel bars when you hit the wall they usually have a flow on effect and break chassis etc - the plastic ones have some give and every vehicle we have u/g now has them fitted.

All the best

Wayne

 

[Grench]

Finally.. Someone who knows about them!

Hi there all

I am back - been away for a while.

These plastic bars are all the rage now with the mining companies in SA - and they are working reall well.

The older solid steel bars when you hit the wall they usually have a flow on effect and break chassis etc - the plastic ones have some give and every vehicle we have u/g now has them fitted.

All the best

Wayne

Wow! Finally! Someone who has seen one in person! Please excuse me while I bombard you with questions. I have been searching for someone with first hand knowledge of these bars for over a month.

What's the word on these then? Are they able to minimize damage to the vehicle in a collision? Do they offer adequate protection from large warm blooded creatures crossing the highway at night? (We have deer, you have kangaroos.)

Not that you're likely to care in a mine, but how bad do they look when scuffed up? Do the realy spring back into shape after a bump?

Thank you in advance for any answers you can spare the time for!

Grench

 

[roscoFJ73]

Wow! Finally! Someone who has seen one in person! Please excuse me while I bombard you with questions. I have been searching for someone with first hand knowledge of these bars for over a month.

What's the word on these then? Are they able to minimize damage to the vehicle in a collision? Do they offer adequate protection from large warm blooded creatures crossing the highway at night? (We have deer, you have kangaroos.)

Not that you're likely to care in a mine, but how bad do they look when scuffed up? Do the realy spring back into shape after a bump?

Thank you in advance for any answers you can spare the time for!

Grench

Originally bullbars and roobars were there to stop the animal from coming over the bonnet and through the windscreen and were sloped forward to achieve this.
They were also positioned up to 12 inches from the front of the vehicle so if they did bend it lessened the chance of damaging the vehicle body,particuarly the radiator.

To make them more pedestrian friendly the laws were changed in australia making it illegal for bullbar manufacturers to make bullbars that sloped forward.
They also had to be closer to vehicle.
Not as good for protecting the driver and vehicle as well as the old ones, but better than nothing.

The new plastic bullbars actually slope back to to gain areodynamic efficiency and lose all the abilty to stop an animal from coming over the bonnet and through the windscreen.
They will only protect the car from minor scrapes in the parking lot and maybe small animals at low speeds as the plastic is only a few centimetres from the body.

Whilst its true what Wayne says in relation to the plastic bullbar absorbing some shock ,the average driver will hardly be driving into walls on a minesite.
The ability for the plastic bullbar to save you from a collision with an elk,cow,horse or roo is non existant.(and it was never guaranteed with the old style either)

The claims for the plastic BB being more pedestrian friendly is also a liitle skewed.
The tests are done on a dummy representing a 10 yo boy at low speed showing less head injury.This testing is selective and the use of a child is designed to invoke emotion IMO
Hitting a taller person does the same as no bullbar,it sweeps the legs away throwing them onto the bonnet

The plastic scratches like any other hard plastic but so does that shiny alloy.
I took a heap of photos of plastic bullbars at a 4wd show last year but I have deleted them.
So far they are only being fitted to cars,mainly taxi cabs in large numbers where I am.
They maybe more suitable for the smaller softer light duty 4wd as they dont have a chassis or strong floor like the older 4wd.

The plastic jobs dont really deserve the name "bullbar or roo bar" .
Perhaps a "bump or scrape bar" or maybe the "politically correct bar"

 

[Bluey]

I was really referring to the guy whose LC is his "daily driver".



Naturally.



I work construction on a high mountain site. It's a lot higher than the highest peak in Australia. Access is via what is, at best, a track. Most people refuse to drive it, including many 4x4 club members I know. It's a scary and difficult piece of rock. When I'm not on the mountain, I drive my wife's Toyota Mark II.

As far as I'm concerned, 4x4's don't belong on bitumen. My comments were aimed at those who drive to theeir white collar job in offroad behemoths. But hey, whatever, so long as it keeps your self-esteem right up there, huh?

and i work in power stations and substations (transmission lines) up to 220kv, so what.everyone has a job, you either like or not. if driving to work scares you maybe you should get another job.

taking your awesome opinion about 4wd's not allowed on bitumen/cities (cause this sometimes gets bandied about) further, why don't we ban all non 4wd's from driving outside of any city boundary. s*** mate, makes as much sense as your idea

as for bullbars, plastic or not, there are no actual studies that look at the outcomes of car v's pedestrian accidents compared to outcome of cars fitted with bullbars v's pedestrian accidents. my want for a bullbar is not to compensate for some lack of body size on my part even though you may think that is the case, but to fit a winch (and no i'm not really concerned about animal strikes). i take my family out away from bitumen roads and need to use my winch to increase the safety of vehicle and more importanly safety of my passengers - wife and kids.

 

[Wayne BJ73]

Rosco

As for the bullbars - yes they take a beating, but we have noticed a huge reduction in chasis damage.

Most of our incidents underground are not direct frontal impacts - mostly side. With a metal bar this majority of the time damages or ends the chasis.

With the plastic bars, they do look like they have been put through the spin cycle (alot of plastic damage) but they take the impact and its flexed through the bar.

Initally the bars look ugly but they are growing on me (especally the color coded ones) - there is alot of acessories with them eg spotlight & arial braket and also an allocation for a winch.

Please note - they is usually alot of damage behind the bull bar but still very much drivable (and water still in the radiator)

Hope this answers some of your questions - I will try and get some pictures.

All the best

Wayne

 

[roscoFJ73]

Rosco

As for the bullbars - yes they take a beating, but we have noticed a huge reduction in chasis damage.

Most of our incidents underground are not direct frontal impacts - mostly side. With a metal bar this majority of the time damages or ends the chasis.

With the plastic bars, they do look like they have been put through the spin cycle (alot of plastic damage) but they take the impact and its flexed through the bar.

Initally the bars look ugly but they are growing on me (especally the color coded ones) - there is alot of acessories with them eg spotlight & arial braket and also an allocation for a winch.

Please note - they is usually alot of damage behind the bull bar but still very much drivable (and water still in the radiator)

Hope this answers some of your questions - I will try and get some pictures.

All the best

Wayne

I understand the bit about the plastic absorbing the shock and saving the chassis but I have never seen a landcruiser chassis damaged from hitting an animal.
I see the plastic bullbars as having an entirely different function to the steel type.

 

[Entaran]

Some random woman was wiped out in Oakleigh yesterday by some chick driving a "Toorak Tractor" (Read BMW X3/X5 or similar with mods) while talking on the phone and doing her makeup. Fxxxing wonderful.

They won't ban bullbar's in Vic, they can't... there's WAY too freaking many 4x4's with bullbars. To see a 4x4 without a bullbar is actually a rarity, even the "softroaders" have bullbars.

My ARB Commercial bar has so far absorbed two roos and a wallaby and clipped the arse end of a cow while 4x4ing. No impact was above 50kmh and there's not a mark on the bullbar. There's a TINY bend in the centre, but the bar's still straight. If I didn't have the bar... well, I'd have some pretty severe panelbeating costs.

I'm just about to replace the ARB Commercial bar with a T-13 Outback bar from TJM. It's bigger, stronger and fits Lightforce HID's.

 

[nickw]

Some random woman was wiped out in Oakleigh yesterday by some chick driving a "Toorak Tractor" (Read BMW X3/X5 or similar with mods) while talking on the phone and doing her makeup. Fxxxing wonderful.

They won't ban bullbar's in Vic, they can't... there's WAY too freaking many 4x4's with bullbars. To see a 4x4 without a bullbar is actually a rarity, even the "softroaders" have bullbars.

My ARB Commercial bar has so far absorbed two roos and a wallaby and clipped the arse end of a cow while 4x4ing. No impact was above 50kmh and there's not a mark on the bullbar. There's a TINY bend in the centre, but the bar's still straight. If I didn't have the bar... well, I'd have some pretty severe panelbeating costs.

I'm just about to replace the ARB Commercial bar with a T-13 Outback bar from TJM. It's bigger, stronger and fits Lightforce HID's.

I think companies like ARB would fight a ban tooth and nail.


As for thier strength.
We in North America don't have roo's, wallaby's etc...
But we do have deer, elk, moose, bear etc....

I hit a cow elk (Around 550-600 pounds?) with my 80 series and ARB at about 105kph. She ran right out in front of me on the road. Swerved hard and hit the last foot of her with my truck. Spun her right off the road. Looked in the ditch for her on my way home (I could not stop, too much traffic), she was gone. Probably died in the bush somewhere. Point is ARB's are strong. It marked the powdercoat up a bit, but not much.

Cheers,
Nick

 

[widewestcruiser]

I run a tree planting company in BC; Canada.We run mostly Ford F350 series crewcabs with light duty after market bumbers,basicly a thin wall bumper to protect the oil cooler and some place to use your jackall.We use to build these 500 lbs bullbars until we had a collision with another vehicle with factory bumber at a speed of maybe 10 km /hour. The factory bumper was bent considerablly with no other damages to the vehicle, the Ford 350 was a total right off,frame bent 90 degrees at the shackles,the engine block cracked where the bullbar hit the engine.
I'm planning on building a bullbar for my BJ74,but either out of alluminium or very thin gauge metal, sure it will bend, but lat east I'll have enough power in reserve to hall it around.

my to bits