Last time I checked, yesterday, my Toyota was made in Japan not China- thus not the same people.
This is the first I've read this post. Glad you were ok.
The bitch tried to kill me
- Thread starter Haddock
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
Last time I checked, yesterday, my Toyota was made in Japan not China- thus not the same people.
This is the first I've read this post. Glad you were ok.
This thread reminds me to get some heavier duty jackstands. BTW, would any of you guys use some Rhino ramps to work uder your LC? These are rated 12,000 lbs.
Welcome to RhinoRamps®
Welcome to RhinoRamps®
Bogo
FOOF
I use layered 2x12s nailed together. They are solid wood, and I can add a layer or two under them to make em taller when needed. Each layer is about 6" longer than the one above with the top layer being 16" long. I also have a 2x2 across the end of the top layer to keep me from driving off.
Code:
[FONT=Courier New]x
xxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[/FONT]
Code:
[FONT=Courier New]
x
xxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxx|xxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxx|xxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxx|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[/FONT]I would not make a set of ramps like this that are taller than the width. When I put additional layers under mine I use 2x14s or two 2x8s side by side.
When not in use they nicely stand up against the wall.
So did you join MUD just so your first post could be to drag a year old post up from the dead and call someone a cheap
and dumb?
The gentleman posted this accident that he got into as a 'lessons learned' and was sharing this with others here with us as to be careful and not make the same mistake!! Good grief safety gestapo and jack-stand engineer! Was this even necessary!?! OK I feel better now.. rant off.Oh and by the way... Chinese mfg & Japanese mfg.. yes both imports.. but not the same people... yes we do look similar but we're not the same.
So did you join MUD just so your first post could be to drag a year old post up from the dead and call someone a cheap
Oh and by the way... Chinese mfg & Japanese mfg.. yes both imports.. but not the same people... yes we do look similar but we're not the same.
Amen Brother! That was exactly what I was thinking when I read this yesterday morning.
- Thread starter
- #86
Wow! Thank you for coming in and telling us exactly what happened from one crappy internet picture in a year and a half old thread. I’ll be sure to let the engineer, the attorneys and the eye witnesses know that all we needed to do was call you.
Did you actually read the thread?
You’re truly amazing. You have an engineering degree AND a law degree too?!?
See, because I just thought that ANy(?) lawyer would read the whole story, understand that the stands had been used many times and determine that the paint on the riser was not an indication of its position during accident. You see how the color of what you think is paint on the bottom of the riser is different from the actual paint scuffs on the side of the riser? That’s because it’s rust from earlier use. The paint on the side is from the pawl itself and the steel in the center of the stand that bent down when it failed (the bottom of the riser is flush with the flat steel piece when it is locked in position).
Then, I think, ANy lawyer would look at the stand with an engineer to determine that the pawl, which was secured in the last notch on the riser at the time of the accident, was too short to fully lock the riser against the stand body, and was positioned more horizontally than it should have been. The incorrectly positioned pawl was able to sustain some of the weight of the truck, but forced some of the weight to be borne by the thin steel of the jack body (you see the part that bent down?) and a small pin that holds the pawl to the cross bar. When the pin sheered, the riser dropped, taking the pawl with it and bending the center of the stand down.
In spite of these facts, ANy product liability lawyer would know that even if the stand had been used incorrectly (which it wasn't), the manufacturer would still be liable for reasonably foreseeable misuse. Especially with a piece of safety equipment and the availability of inexpensive, safer designs. You must have been absent that day in law school.
ANy lawyer would have agreed with me that there were too many intervening and possibly superseding causes that could have contributed to the accident to go forward with the suit. We’ll maybe not ANy lawyer, but mine did. The engineer couldn’t determine if the stands were manufactured with a “too short” pawl or if it had worn down over the years, without additional (read expensive) testing.
But, what do I know about what ANy lawyer would do.
Actually, in this case, it had everything to do with how the stand was made. It was either a bad design or steel that was too soft. I want to thank you though. I had been meaning to update everyone with exactly how the stand failed.
I find it funny that you talk about my lack of common sense, but you don’t know the difference between China and Japan.
Maybe next time you wander into a year and a half old thread, you should lay off the personal attacks and ask if there were any updates to the story.
But then you might have to hear that your beloved Harbor Freight makes a dangerous product. I’m not sure you could handle that. You seem to be the head HF cheerleader on your forums. Maybe you should wander back there, or have you been banned again?
By all means, keep using HF safety equipment. I hope that works out for you.
Welcome to MUD, genius
Mods: Sorry for feeding the troll
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #88
Too Strong? 
I definitely need to get out. It's been way too long. If I don't get the tires dirty once in a while, I get really grouchy. I'm usually a really nice guy
The cruiser is going down for some major upgrades, but I'll have to plan something to celebrate when it's done. I'll post up in a new thread.
I definitely need to get out. It's been way too long. If I don't get the tires dirty once in a while, I get really grouchy. I'm usually a really nice guy
The cruiser is going down for some major upgrades, but I'll have to plan something to celebrate when it's done. I'll post up in a new thread.
I seen the way you had em positioned before you removed the pics, plus, it is was on even the last notch , the whole side would have to blow out in torn out in order for the locking paw to fold down like that, Just admit you where an idiot and had the arm sitting on top of the locking pawl. its just not physically possible for it to fail the way your did if it had been set up correctly, far as the manufacturer goes.. there is a tab the instructions (If you bothered to read them) says once you insert the insert you are suppose to bent that tab in to prevent knuckleheads such as yourself from pulling the ratchet arm out past the pawl. admit it its your own fault.
Obviously from the sentence structure and grammatical errors in your 2 posts on this forum you are the spokesperson for the Chinese steel manufacturers association. Please go back to school to learn English and stop insulting people.
Sorry to 
this, but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRockford
I can see the orange paint of the bottom and ANy lawyer could too. So I really wouldn't attempt to make this about a bad product, There is no possible way if you had em set up correctly it would fail like that. you can not support a vehicle with the saddle sitting on top of the locking paw.
You’re truly amazing. You have an engineering degree AND a law degree too?!?
...and obviously an advanced degree in Engrish from the school of Rockford and Hard Knocks. With the strength and superior education that Jim has demonstrated, I suggest that he offers his head to be used as a jackstand. Just a thought.
this, but...Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRockford
I can see the orange paint of the bottom and ANy lawyer could too. So I really wouldn't attempt to make this about a bad product, There is no possible way if you had em set up correctly it would fail like that. you can not support a vehicle with the saddle sitting on top of the locking paw.
You’re truly amazing. You have an engineering degree AND a law degree too?!?
...and obviously an advanced degree in Engrish from the school of Rockford and Hard Knocks. With the strength and superior education that Jim has demonstrated, I suggest that he offers his head to be used as a jackstand. Just a thought.
Last edited:
tone33
SILVER Star
I'm curious - did you guys do a group buy on USJack jack stands? U.S. Jack Garage Stands D-41608 I'm looking at getting a set of the US Jack 12T (6 each) for $110 shipped. Any reviews? I posted a new thread over here a couple of days ago
https://forum.ih8mud.com/tools-fabrication/501205-jack-stands-should-i-buy.html
Thanks, you saved me from wrong jack stands
Thanks for saving me from buying the wrong jack stands for a small vehicle. I found this thread while searching for the Harbor Freight brand jack stands, a company where I've been a satisfied customer.
I looked at the H.F. (China) jack stand failure pics posted by the OP, and decided to buy locally.
I had a choice of Performance Parts brand 2 ton (China) at Kmart or Craftsman brand 2-1/4 ton (China) at Sears (same corporate owners), both for a price of 19.99+tx (Sears sale price).
I can't say for certain, but inside the PP box was what appeared to be the same design as the H.F. jack stand that failed on the OP. The PP unit was in black paint instead of the OP's yellow.
In the Kmart store, I repeatedly operated the saddle-top ratchet bar and the locking handle with pawl. Below the pawl there was a sheet metal tang attached to the frame. Maybe the purpose of the tang is a stop, to limit rotation of the pawl by the locking handle, when the ratchet bar isn't inserted in the frame. This PP tang may be the same part design that was failed in the OP's photo.
Looking closely, I noticed that the ratchet bar could be tilted in the frame at most ratchet heights, and each of the ratchet teeth could be brought to rest on the lip of the tang, rather than the pawl. This arrangement created the appearance in the store of a "false latch". If the ratchet somehow tilted in actual use, and came to rest on the tang rather than the pawl, the saddle top could not support the specified load.
This observation wouldn't entirely explain the OP's accident, since the ratchet bar was obviously tilted when resting on the tang. Maybe that accident could happen if a ratchet tooth was somehow balanced on the edge of the pawl under load, slid off the pawl, the bar tilted under load, and mashed out the tang on the way down. I don't know.
Anyway, I concluded that even if that PP jack stand would be safe most of the time, I didn't want to own a tool that could be so easily arranged into an unsafe appearance. So I bought the Sears Craftsman jack stands of a different design.
Thanks for saving me from buying the wrong jack stands for a small vehicle. I found this thread while searching for the Harbor Freight brand jack stands, a company where I've been a satisfied customer.
I looked at the H.F. (China) jack stand failure pics posted by the OP, and decided to buy locally.
I had a choice of Performance Parts brand 2 ton (China) at Kmart or Craftsman brand 2-1/4 ton (China) at Sears (same corporate owners), both for a price of 19.99+tx (Sears sale price).
I can't say for certain, but inside the PP box was what appeared to be the same design as the H.F. jack stand that failed on the OP. The PP unit was in black paint instead of the OP's yellow.
In the Kmart store, I repeatedly operated the saddle-top ratchet bar and the locking handle with pawl. Below the pawl there was a sheet metal tang attached to the frame. Maybe the purpose of the tang is a stop, to limit rotation of the pawl by the locking handle, when the ratchet bar isn't inserted in the frame. This PP tang may be the same part design that was failed in the OP's photo.
Looking closely, I noticed that the ratchet bar could be tilted in the frame at most ratchet heights, and each of the ratchet teeth could be brought to rest on the lip of the tang, rather than the pawl. This arrangement created the appearance in the store of a "false latch". If the ratchet somehow tilted in actual use, and came to rest on the tang rather than the pawl, the saddle top could not support the specified load.
This observation wouldn't entirely explain the OP's accident, since the ratchet bar was obviously tilted when resting on the tang. Maybe that accident could happen if a ratchet tooth was somehow balanced on the edge of the pawl under load, slid off the pawl, the bar tilted under load, and mashed out the tang on the way down. I don't know.
Anyway, I concluded that even if that PP jack stand would be safe most of the time, I didn't want to own a tool that could be so easily arranged into an unsafe appearance. So I bought the Sears Craftsman jack stands of a different design.
1973Guppie
Supporting Vendor
redundancy, redundancy, redundancy. Get those tires stuck under the axle and skidplates.
not only jack stands but jacks to!! mine twisted
It was a jack that I has borrowed from the customer, because mine could not raise the extra inch needed to get his truck left rear corner off the ground.
I put this jack on plywood and put two stands under each axle. Working on both brakes went well. After putting on the tires, I pumped up the jack, then reaching under the truck under the diff, grabbed one jack stand on the right pulled it out. As I was under the truck reaching the left jack stand, I could swear I was starting to see the truck to move to the side....very slowly. I did not hesitate and grabbed the jack and pulled out from the back of the truck. The truck was moving to the side, then the jack collapsed and truck came crashing down on its tires. After looking at the plywood, the tire was close to the edge, and for some reason the wheel of the jack was sunk just 1/2 into the plywood. It was enough to cause the jack to buckle and collapse.
If you look at the pick, look at the sidewalls. Totally twisted sideways. The sidewalls do not have a bend in them "think 90 angle iron" to give it torsional and lateral rigidity.
It was a jack that I has borrowed from the customer, because mine could not raise the extra inch needed to get his truck left rear corner off the ground.
I put this jack on plywood and put two stands under each axle. Working on both brakes went well. After putting on the tires, I pumped up the jack, then reaching under the truck under the diff, grabbed one jack stand on the right pulled it out. As I was under the truck reaching the left jack stand, I could swear I was starting to see the truck to move to the side....very slowly. I did not hesitate and grabbed the jack and pulled out from the back of the truck. The truck was moving to the side, then the jack collapsed and truck came crashing down on its tires. After looking at the plywood, the tire was close to the edge, and for some reason the wheel of the jack was sunk just 1/2 into the plywood. It was enough to cause the jack to buckle and collapse.
If you look at the pick, look at the sidewalls. Totally twisted sideways. The sidewalls do not have a bend in them "think 90 angle iron" to give it torsional and lateral rigidity.
Bogo
FOOF
I've rejected, before purchase, more than a few of that type of jack due to not feeling the bottom part would hold up. The farm is not kind to flimsy designs. I finally found a no name one at a discount place that had a thick steel u channel base, but I still won't use it without a sturdy horizontal base or cement under it. A couple of times I've placed it on top of some 2' 2x6 boards. I placed the boards crosswise to provide a stable base.
If you want fun, try jacking up a tractor or loaded wagon in a field. I've seen a 2' square jack base pushed 5" into the ground and develop a significant tilt before the wagon even started to lift. When tilting happens I'll stop jacking, and add dirt or boards under the down side to level the jack base. I've seen way to many wagons fall off tilted jacks.
If you want fun, try jacking up a tractor or loaded wagon in a field. I've seen a 2' square jack base pushed 5" into the ground and develop a significant tilt before the wagon even started to lift. When tilting happens I'll stop jacking, and add dirt or boards under the down side to level the jack base. I've seen way to many wagons fall off tilted jacks.
Bear
SILVER Star
I realize that this thread dates back some years.
However, the importance of major safety does not end.
The same design Harbor Freight jack stands discussed here are still for sale today, and are purchased in the thousands in many countries.
I was told by my buddy's brother, a fire captain in Orange County, Calif., of numerous rescue calls he went on, only to find deceased people who had cars or trucks crush them to death when their jacks or jackstands had failed. He told me to only buy US-made safety products from long-standing, huge American companies with a lot to lose in potential liability lawsuits. Small, relatively-unknown, upstart American companies would not be advised. The Hein-Werner jack I bought back then cost nearly ten times the cost of a similar Chinese-made jack.
I still believe his warnings hold today.
However, it troubles me that a huge corporation such as Sears, can market safety products branded made in China. While any product has the possibility of failure, hence the need for liability insurance, it seems that large American companies may now feel they can absorb millions of dollars of lawsuits, and still turn an overall corporate profit. Maybe they weasel-out of paying, by virtue of the mind-numbing fine print in their warranty booklets. And I am not sure if Harbor Freight is a wholly American company subject to US liability standards--though they appear to be large enough to suffer huge liability punishments for selling sub-standard products.
So, while I personally follow the Made-in-the-USA rule, I now modify that to also insist on an extremely heavy-duty design, with considerable excess capacity. Coupled, of course, with other back-up protections to protect against collapses--just in case.
However, the importance of major safety does not end.
The same design Harbor Freight jack stands discussed here are still for sale today, and are purchased in the thousands in many countries.
I was told by my buddy's brother, a fire captain in Orange County, Calif., of numerous rescue calls he went on, only to find deceased people who had cars or trucks crush them to death when their jacks or jackstands had failed. He told me to only buy US-made safety products from long-standing, huge American companies with a lot to lose in potential liability lawsuits. Small, relatively-unknown, upstart American companies would not be advised. The Hein-Werner jack I bought back then cost nearly ten times the cost of a similar Chinese-made jack.
I still believe his warnings hold today.
However, it troubles me that a huge corporation such as Sears, can market safety products branded made in China. While any product has the possibility of failure, hence the need for liability insurance, it seems that large American companies may now feel they can absorb millions of dollars of lawsuits, and still turn an overall corporate profit. Maybe they weasel-out of paying, by virtue of the mind-numbing fine print in their warranty booklets. And I am not sure if Harbor Freight is a wholly American company subject to US liability standards--though they appear to be large enough to suffer huge liability punishments for selling sub-standard products.
So, while I personally follow the Made-in-the-USA rule, I now modify that to also insist on an extremely heavy-duty design, with considerable excess capacity. Coupled, of course, with other back-up protections to protect against collapses--just in case.
Bump for safety's sake.