Now that's a damn good idea ...
Yes it is... I have 2 decent jackstands that I've used for a couple of years w/o any problems... But I could use about 2-3 more...
The bitch tried to kill me (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Haddock
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Yes it is... I have 2 decent jackstands that I've used for a couple of years w/o any problems... But I could use about 2-3 more...
Bogo
FOOF
I'm not happy the "6-ton" stands I have are really only 3 ton ones, but they will do for my mini truck. Unfortunately they won't work for any of my bigger trucks or even the light tractor which was the intended use. Pisses me off. We need to get the consumer protection agency to enforce a standard ratings system that is per stand, not pair. Any large print that states a weight limit must be safe holding strength per stand. Also a minimum of 2X breaking strength needs to be in the standard.
I have 3 ton jackstands (similar to these) that my brother gave me for Christmas a few years back... I think he got it from Costco... Anyway they have the thick 1/2" steel pins to lock them in place which IMO makes them a little bit safer.
would be pretty easy to add a pin like that to other jacks too in fact but does not seem that necessary. The pawl should not be able to come out if engaged properly (key word).
????
Did you read the original post?
That's EXACTLY what failed, the pawl, or the steel it was attached to.
The pin adds a 2nd, and completely independent, support point. So it makes a HUGE difference. It takes the load and spreads it over two teeth on the vertical riser, and between the pawl and the additional pin.
What I am trying to understand is the whole paw lock design. My jacks are totally different in design (5-Ton rated). The only way the locking devise can fail is if the u-bolt breaks. I can not find anything on-line that shows me how the paw works. After this incident, I am considering upgrading my jacks and using my old ones as a second safety set. Problem is just about every 10-Ton jack out there is this same paw design.
I’ve attached a couple pictures of my current jacks. .This design looks a lot safer to me but I could be wrong.
ALSO Check out the made in the USA. Don't see that anymore. I bought this set in Ft, Collins, CO at a Target Store in 1992. Not sure if EX-CELL is a good company or not.
I’ve attached a couple pictures of my current jacks. .This design looks a lot safer to me but I could be wrong.
ALSO Check out the made in the USA. Don't see that anymore. I bought this set in Ft, Collins, CO at a Target Store in 1992. Not sure if EX-CELL is a good company or not.
Bogo
FOOF
That is a different design.
That is an interesting design. I don't think I've ever seen that before.
I'm not exactly sure how it works, but it looks to lock the stand pretty securely, and much better than the pawl style.
the pawl is almost like a "narrow, curved, teardrop" shaped piece of steel. the "fat" end of the teardrop is anchored to the handle, and it rotates around the axis of the handle when the handle is lifted. The other end of the pawl is pointed, and it fits into the teeth of the riser. As the riser is lifted, the pawl ratchets, and when the riser is let go, the pawl settles into the tooth of the riser and locks it into place. It's a good design as long as the quality of the steel is up to snuff. If you put crappy steel into the pawl, then it can fail when stressed.
The double-locked type stands use this same pawl design along with an additional pin that can be used as a backup. the pin will engage another tooth of the riser, and the pin will rest in a different spot on the stand frame, so the load is spread over a much greater area, hence it's a much safer design.
I think that a 6 ton rated double-locked stand is very safe for our applications, even the chinese ones. If I find a good price on a set, I'm going to go for them.
I won't throw my cheapie 3-ton stands away, I'll just use them for much lighter loads, like holding up the axles when doing a spring lift, for example.
I'm not exactly sure how it works, but it looks to lock the stand pretty securely, and much better than the pawl style.
the pawl is almost like a "narrow, curved, teardrop" shaped piece of steel. the "fat" end of the teardrop is anchored to the handle, and it rotates around the axis of the handle when the handle is lifted. The other end of the pawl is pointed, and it fits into the teeth of the riser. As the riser is lifted, the pawl ratchets, and when the riser is let go, the pawl settles into the tooth of the riser and locks it into place. It's a good design as long as the quality of the steel is up to snuff. If you put crappy steel into the pawl, then it can fail when stressed.
The double-locked type stands use this same pawl design along with an additional pin that can be used as a backup. the pin will engage another tooth of the riser, and the pin will rest in a different spot on the stand frame, so the load is spread over a much greater area, hence it's a much safer design.
I think that a 6 ton rated double-locked stand is very safe for our applications, even the chinese ones. If I find a good price on a set, I'm going to go for them.
I won't throw my cheapie 3-ton stands away, I'll just use them for much lighter loads, like holding up the axles when doing a spring lift, for example.
I doubt that. There is probably no realistic way to have both pawl and pin support the riser significantly at the same time. The tolerances would have to be much smaller than is likely the case for this type of construction. The pin being smaller apparently would likely not support the weight either if the main pivot fails. Is it better to have it, yes probably, would it make a HUGE difference in practice? I don't think so unless it's as big as the main pivot.
The additional pin on these double-locked jackstands is about the same size and diameter as the pin shown on the Ex-Cell jackstands a few posts back, which is the SOLE SUPPORT pin on them, so how do you figure they don't do anything significant?
You are probably correct that the tolerance is not that great. So perhaps the load is sustained by the pawl alone. However, the pin would still act as a backup in case the pawl fails. So in the case of the original poster's failure, the pin would have caught the weight of the truck after the pawl failed.
In the old gas station hoists, the single piston type that supported the entire car, they occasionally would fail, I saw one drop 5' suddenly once, it was very scary.
Sometime later the manufacturers came up with a backup safety system, it was a pipe that came up with the hoist, and there were holes in it and you stuck a pin into the hole to support the car if the hydraulics failed. Apparently that pin was sufficient to hold the weight of the car.
I think this double-locked pin is sufficient to hold the rated weight of the jack, it's a pretty robust looking pin actually.
looks interesting, any place you can get pricing or even better order online? the only distributor is over 150 miles from here, long drive for some jack stands.
VERY nice. Any idea how much they run.
I like the 3 ton models because of the lifting range, and they are rated per jack, with this stand I'd feel much safer than even the 6 ton HF units (3 ton per jack rating).
teejnut
SILVER Star
I gotta tell you, I thought they'd be more.
maybe a group buy is in order?
maybe a group buy is in order?
teejnut
SILVER Star
Came back to suggest the same. Group buy... if there's enough local interest we should start a new thread and set something up.
dude, your tougher than a 3 ton jack, an ARB and 6000 plus pounds of fine Toyota engineering. Do you know how rare that is?
So glad your'e still with us.
Maybe for Christmas Santa will let you get a lift installed in your driveway? Then we can all come over and use it standing up!
kidding aside, that's an amazing story. great pic of Millie.
Let us know if you need help getting it all back together.
So glad your'e still with us.
Maybe for Christmas Santa will let you get a lift installed in your driveway? Then we can all come over and use it standing up!
kidding aside, that's an amazing story. great pic of Millie.
Let us know if you need help getting it all back together.
- Thread starter
- #77
Thanks for the kind words and the offer. The recovery is going well and the truck is back together enough to drive.
I would love a lift, but I think I'm on Santa's naughty list
Yikes. That's scary. I think mine are also the bigger ones from HF. I'm going to take a look at some other jacks. Recently I started putting jack stands under the axle as well, when the big jack stands are under the frame. Along with the wheel/tire under the frame.
I hope you are feeling better each day.
It really wasn't her fault though.
Since buying the new LX a month ago, I've gone nuts gathering parts. To date I've have or have in transit:
OME lift
ARB front bumper
Snorkel
295/85 16 Hankooks
OEM Aux tank and filler neck, switch, ect...
lots of other interior knick knacks.
To make a short story longer... two and a half weeks ago, I was under the front of the truck. I had done the lift on three corners with just the driver's front to go. I still had the passenger front tire off and the frame supported on a jackstand (mistake)
I was on my left side removing the steering damper when the jackstand failed. That's right, it didn't slip off, it failed. The truck came down on the brake disk and the ARB hit me on the right collar bone compressing my chest into the driveway. I was yelling loud enough that the nieghbors and my wife came running.
Continuing the stupidity, I wouldn't let my wife call for an ambulance. After 15 minutes of laying in the driveway trying to breathe, I put my tools away and jacked the truck up and put the tire back on. That's when I realized I was running on shock and adrenaline so my wife drove me to the ER.
Sorry for the long post, but it's only been a couple of weeks and I've only been able to get up without help and dress myself for a few days. The final outcome is no broken bones (I don't know how I managed that). Lots of torn cartilage on the left side of my chest so everything pops out of place if I sneeze
The moral of the story is:
DON'T TRUST YOUR LIFE TO CHEAP CHINESE STEEL!!!
I do take responsibility for the stands being too small. I figured a 3ton stand would be plenty for one corner. I've used then on numerous cruisers for years. In my defense. I've had these stands so long that I didn't know they were HF specials. I should be dead. The really scary part to me is my three year old was helping me. Fortunately, I make her sit on the porch when the truck is up on stands. I can't imagine what she'd have had to deal with if she had watched me kick off. I'm hoping to finish the lift in a couple of weeks (it may be longer
Anyway, here's the pics. Sorry for the quality of the first one. My wife was trying to be sneaky. The second and third show what happened to the stand.
Sorry you got hurt, But I can see exactly what happened, You where to cheap to buy a set of 12 tons to lift it as high as you needed so you over extended the saddle bar to where the bottom was resting on top of the paw instead of being locked in a grove where it would have been locked and very unlikely to fail unless the side of the collar blew out I can see the orange paint of the bottom and ANy lawyer could too. So I really wouldn't attempt to make this about a bad product, There is no possible way if you had em set up correctly it would fail like that. you can not support a vehicle with the saddle sitting on top of the locking paw. It has nothing to do with how the stand is made. It was lack of common sense that got you hurt. I find it funny you guys complain about import jackstands when your toyota is made by the same people.
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