Tall 245 tire options for LC 250 1958?

[TWILLY]

Toyota’s launch press release states that LC 250’s 1958 trim will be spec’d with 245 70 R18 tires.

With 245 being a bit of an oddball width, has anyone researched taller size options in 245 r18?

245 75 R18 seems to be the tallest available that I’ve found, but a 245 80 R18 (33.5” tall) would seem pretty ideal.

 

[APIOQM]

I’ve always assumed 255/70R18 and 265/70R18 would fit on the 1958 rims. Can anyone confirm if that is true? Although wider than the stock tire, they’re also taller.

 

[TheLCProject]

I don't think skinny 33s on 18" wheels is a thing - but hoping I'm wrong.

I'd assume 33x12.5x18 from here on out unless you want to slap some UTV tires on your tourer..

Can the brakes clear 17-in wheels?

 

[Jetboy]

On a 6k lb SUV, skinny tires are going to be pretty terrible in anything soft. It's an odd choice from Toyota. I wouldn't try to keep the 245 width. Need to wait for the wheel width, but most likely it'll be 7" for that tread width. So a 255 or 265 should be fine.

There is a 235 80 18. It's 33" tall and very skinny.

 

[Phillyd2]

Can the brakes clear 17-in wheels?

I forget which one but one of the video ‘reviews’ claims no and that the brakes were the reason for 18”

 

[TheLCProject]

BuT tHeSe ArE pRoPrOdUcTiOn UnIts....

 

[Jstawgn]

A lot of Tundra and Sequoia run 35 with minimal work. A lot of aftermarket 17 work with Tundra and Sequoia and it's the same size.

18 is not a bad thing on 35. 35X11.50R18 or 285/75R18 might be the sweet spot for this vehicles.

 

[TheLCProject]

It'll be fun to see that little 8.2 try and spin those 35s

 

[APIOQM]

It'll be fun to see that little 8.2 try and spin those 35s

With 465 lb-ft of electrified torque behind it too

 

[Jetboy]

It'll be fun to see that little 8.2 try and spin those 35s

I don't think we know yet what rear axle it is for the production LC250 hybrid. I bet a dollar it's the 9.5. Same as Tacoma hybrid trims.

I do think the 8.2 would probably hold up okay, but I'd rather have bigger rear axle. 8.2 does seem to be fine with a supercharged 1GR and 35s. Should be stronger than the older LC 9.5s. The bearings and internals are certainly a lot bigger than the older 9.5s and 8" stuff. Below is a picture side by side on my bench of the 8.2 pinion left vs 8" right.

 

[TheLCProject]

I don't think we know yet what rear axle it is for the production LC250 hybrid. I bet a dollar it's the 9.5. Same as Tacoma hybrid trims.

I do think the 8.2 would probably hold up okay, but I'd rather have bigger rear axle. 8.2 does seem to be fine with a supercharged 1GR and 35s. Should be stronger than the older LC 9.5s. The bearings and internals are certainly a lot bigger than the older 9.5s and 8" stuff. Below is a picture side by side on my bench of the 8.2 pinion left vs 8" right.
View attachment 3554073

Do you think that the 8.2" vs 9.5" would result in a payload difference?

 

[Jstawgn]

It'll be fun to see that little 8.2 try and spin those 35s

Its not confirmed LC250 would get smaller diff.
The torque number between GX550 And Hybrid 2.4 are way to close to have different rear axle.

465 for LC250 hybrid
475 for GX550

Tacoma hybrid is getting the 9.5" diff.
The spec that is out for LC250 in the axle thread are not for hybrid LC250 we are getting in NA.

 

[Jetboy]

Do you think that the 8.2" vs 9.5" would result in a payload difference?

I have no idea other than just a guess. I don't think the axle is likely to be the limiting factor for payload. I think the payload on these is limited by tire pressure. As odd as that is - I think that's the factor Toyota uses. But it also at times is seemingly random. The Tundra hybrids with the 10.5" rear axle don't get a meaningfully increased payload vs the 9.5 (it's about 200lbs difference).

The axle rating on the door sticker for the 10.5 is 4150lbs vs 3860lbs for the 9.5 vs 3,450lbs for the 8.2 on the current 4Runner. But none of those seem to be very closely related to the payload or GVWR numbers. And the new 8.2 looks like a totally different axle. It's not a single formed sheet but at least 3 or 4 different parts welded together. It's possible (maybe even likely) that Toyota decided to change how they make the axle housings so they can vary the wall thickness depending on application. With the new design they could have 2 identical looking 8.2 axles with one being stronger than the other.

It's also possible that the new axles all share the same outer components like wheel bearings, axle shafts, etc. If that is the case, they might all end up with the same real world weight capacity and the only differences are in the differential its self as it's selected for torque rating.

The outlier here that I don't know how to explain is some years of the 5th gen 4Runner the rear locker models had payload cut in half to around 800lbs. But that was only the case for maybe 5 out of the 15 years of production. The rest had the same payload as all the others. Why? I have no idea. They all have the same parts other than the locker and all models have ATRAC, so the max torque on the rear axle should be roughly the same. And the Tacoma with the 8.75" rear axle has a lower rating than the 8.2 despite being a larger rear axle and a platform designed better for hauling weight. Stuff like that keeps the payload and GVWR numbers opaque to me.

 

[TheLCProject]

Its not confirmed LC250 would get smaller diff.
The torque number between GX550 And Hybrid 2.4 are way to close to have different rear axle.

465 for LC250 hybrid
475 for GX550

Tacoma hybrid is getting the 9.5" diff.
The spec that is out for LC250 in the axle thread are not for hybrid LC250 we are getting in NA.

Good discussion!

We agree that it's not confirmed. But, I'd also suggest that it's not, not confirmed, either.

It would certainly be interesting as to why Toyota sent around prototype GX550s all with the larger, expected diff but then sent the LC250 with something smaller. Maybe they wanted to test the smaller diff? I don't know. It's just interesting.

I see the GX550 as more of a successor to the 200 than the LC250. And I see the 250 as more of a successor to the 4Runner/FJ Cruiser/LC Prado (150 series - not GX460). And if you approach the LC250 that way, the smaller diff possibility makes a bit more sense.

But a smaller rear diff would provide another reasonable point of model differentiation between the two vehicles like we see elsewhere in the specs like powertrain, eKDSS vs Front-only-SDM (or nothing for 1958), etc.


Also, are the HP and torque numbers for the two powertrains that different to result in such different towing ratings? Or is there some other drive and powertrain difference?

LC250: 326 hp and 465 lb.-ft. : 6,000 lbs towing (prelim)
GX550: 349 hp and 479 lb.-ft : 9,096 lbs towing (up from original 8,000 lbs)

 

[Jetboy]

Good discussion!

We agree that it's not confirmed. But, I'd also suggest that it's not, not confirmed, either.

It would certainly be interesting as to why Toyota sent around prototype GX550s all with the larger, expected diff but then sent the LC250 with something smaller. Maybe they wanted to test the smaller diff? I don't know. It's just interesting.

I see the GX550 as more of a successor to the 200 than the LC250. And I see the 250 as more of a successor to the 4Runner/FJ Cruiser/LC Prado (150 series - not GX460). And if you approach the LC250 that way, the smaller diff possibility makes a bit more sense.

But a smaller rear diff would provide another reasonable point of model differentiation between the two vehicles like we see elsewhere in the specs like powertrain, eKDSS vs Front-only-SDM (or nothing for 1958), etc.


Also, are the HP and torque numbers for the two powertrains that different to result in such different towing ratings? Or is there some other drive and powertrain difference?

LC250: 326 hp and 465 lb.-ft. : 6,000 lbs towing (prelim)
GX550: 349 hp and 479 lb.-ft : 9,096 lbs towing (up from original 8,000 lbs)

The oddity if it's an 8.2 is the Tacoma with the 9.5. That's pretty well confirmed by Toyota. And Toyota has said that the 4Runner will be a Tacoma with more seats. All the Taco stuff is pretty much directly applied to the 4R. If that's accurate - 4runner gets the 9.5 rear axle. And then it would be very unusual for the 4Runner and Tacoma to have the 9.5 rear axle but the LC250 not. The only differentiation on why the Taco would have the larger axle I can think of is due to the awd vs part time 4wd and the rear axle having all the power on the Tacoma. But as soon as you lock the center diff - you can then send 100% to the rear axle. In my mind that means they should be the same.

- All of the above is based on an assumption that someone at Toyota is carefully planning out all the various models. That might be completely wrong. It's possible that there's a 4Runner team, and Tacoma team, GX team, LC team and that they don't base their parts choices on the other models. So the 4Runner team might grab the 9.5 based on their analysis that the target audience is going to run 35's as a default size and 37's in a lot of cases and the LC team decided that their customer is going to keep mostly stock size or 33" tires and they didn't need it.

As for towing - the hybrid probably doesn't help much on towing. The hybrid will tow like a 270hp turbo 4, not like a 350hp T6. I'd also guess that the GX has more cooling capacity. GX has the capability to sustain high output for extended periods where the LC250 can only do it for a short burst. LC250 probably is quicker 0-60 though. What would be interesting to compare is the total trip time on both with heavy trailers. The GX probably pulls faster up the passes, but also has to stop for fuel every 150ish miles when towing. The LC250 might get another 50 miles between fuel stops.

 

[APIOQM]

If I'm remembering correctly from the differential specs that were posted, the Tacoma gets the 8.2, with the one exception being the Trailhunter which gets the 9.5.

 

[TheLCProject]

If I'm remembering correctly from the differential specs that were posted, the Tacoma gets the 8.2, with the one exception being the Trailhunter which gets the 9.5.

That's what I recall. Differential size on the Tacoma varies by trim, with only the TrailHunter getting the 9.5.

 

[Jetboy]

I thought it was all the hybrid trims of the Tacoma have the 9.5 rear axle.

I think there may also be some smaller than 8.2 axle for the base 2wd models, but maybe I'm confused about that too.

 

[TheLCProject]

We are all just confused. Talking ourselves in circles with this 12-month roll-out..

 

[TWILLY]

Good discussion!

We agree that it's not confirmed. But, I'd also suggest that it's not, not confirmed, either.

It would certainly be interesting as to why Toyota sent around prototype GX550s all with the larger, expected diff but then sent the LC250 with something smaller. Maybe they wanted to test the smaller diff? I don't know. It's just interesting.

I see the GX550 as more of a successor to the 200 than the LC250. And I see the 250 as more of a successor to the 4Runner/FJ Cruiser/LC Prado (150 series - not GX460). And if you approach the LC250 that way, the smaller diff possibility makes a bit more sense.

But a smaller rear diff would provide another reasonable point of model differentiation between the two vehicles like we see elsewhere in the specs like powertrain, eKDSS vs Front-only-SDM (or nothing for 1958), etc.


Also, are the HP and torque numbers for the two powertrains that different to result in such different towing ratings? Or is there some other drive and powertrain difference?

LC250: 326 hp and 465 lb.-ft. : 6,000 lbs towing (prelim)
GX550: 349 hp and 479 lb.-ft : 9,096 lbs towing (up from original 8,000 lbs)

I definitely see the 250 as a back-casting, generation-skipping successor to the 80 and not the 200 or other recent Toyota or Lexus offerings in the US.

To me, this is plainly evident in the overall design - its 112" wheelbase, off-road capability, towing capacity (the 80's was 5000), low beltline, high greenhouse, optional interior simplicity (cloth), size, shape (narrow cabin), I could go on and on -- all of it forms a gestalt that clearly harkens to the 80 in a new and better modern-classic off-road tourer.

This gestalt is obviously distinguishable from the bloaty lux 200, the shorter-wheelbase 4runner and FJ cruiser (more Jeep-competing recreational focused) or pre-550 GX models.

While I will be surprised if it does not receive the 9.5 diff for reasons stated above, that's not a litmus test, just as solid front axle is not a litmus test. I would prefer both, but more so I trust Toyota engineers (whom I know many on this forum clearly don't) to match component parts to capabilities in a way that is sufficiently robust.

I do want to find some nice tall skinnies for it. It may well be 255s -- that's what I run on my touring 80, and they're perfect.