Suspension upgrade necessary if adding 175 lbs to nose? (1 Viewer)

[ClangClang]

I live in the mountains in CO. I frequently go exploring on the forest roads around here solo to seek out backcountry skiing and rock/ice climbing objectives. I don't wheel hard or seek out obstacles. My goals are mostly targeted to being able to self recover if I slide into a ditch when I'm by myself in the middle of winter with no cell reception.

I've got a 2017 460. Currently the only mod is I've added is rear drawers but I pulled the 3rd row, so it's net zero weight change.

I just upgraded from a 24F to 27F battery (approx 10 lbs gain) and I'm about to install the DV8 bumper (approx 105 lbs) and Warn EVO 10-S winch (approx 60 lbs). That's a net 175 lbs gain to the nose. I've also got a set of sliders (50 lbs ea) that are going on as well but that's more centered weight and not nose heavy. I'm not planning on a rear bumper.

I don't specifically need a lift for the dirt roads I drive. I'm also going to upgrade to 32" tires (stock is 30.5") in the very near future, and a lift isn't specifically necessary to fit the tires based on my research. Not to mention I'll gain 0.75" of clearance with the new tires already.

Looking for some opinions/thoughts on whether the stock suspension will handle the extra nose weight or if I should order an upgraded suspension. If the consensus is that I should upgrade, I'm probably leaning towards a mild 2" Dobinsons lift from Apache Offroad (currently in stock, with 10% sale for Black Friday), but I'm open to other suggestions.

 

[GrizzlyClint]

I would. I put about ~100lbs in the front of my otherwise stock 460 and while I do not notice the weight driving around I do slightly notice some nose dive under heavy braking. So this leads me to believe adding almost double the weight might put some strain on the factory front suspension. But I’ll let the experts chime in. Just adding my anecdotal $0.02.

 

[ducktapeguy]

IMO it's not necessary, it'll work without an upgrade, but you'll probably feel more sway and bouncing over rough roads. It'll also wear out your stock suspension sooner and so you'll end up upgrading at some point in the future anyway, but it's not something you need to do right away. All that weight up probably drop the front and make the approach angles even worse than they already are, but the DV8 bumper's extra clearance will make up for that. I ran stock suspension for a few years with a lot of added weight in the rear with no issue, other than the ones I mentioned above. Oh yeah you may have to readjust your headlights, because you'll have a positive rake and the headlight adjustment sensor is on the rear wheels, so it won't know that you're not level

 

[r2m]

Personally, I'd add a small suspension lift with heavy springs up front.
A wee bit off topic but related to what you stated, along with your recovery gear, you may want to include Maxtrax traction boards, straps, a compressor to air up/down when in soft snow/ice and of course HiLift and shovels.
If you haven't already take a look at the Ultimate Took Kit sticky thread on the main forum page for ideas of what to carry along.

 

[ClangClang]

I would. I put about ~100lbs in the front of my otherwise stock 460 and while I do not notice the weight driving around I do slightly notice some nose dive under heavy braking. So this leads me to believe adding almost double the weight might put some strain on the factory front suspension. But I’ll let the experts chime in. Just adding my anecdotal $0.02.

Thanks for the input. I agree, if there's some nose dive with 100 lbs, it will definitely be more severe with 175+ lbs. I think with your anecdote, I would probably expect to have significant nose dive and actually get some bump steering potentially if I hit a pothole.

IMO it's not necessary, it'll work without an upgrade, but you'll probably feel more sway and bouncing over rough roads. It'll also wear out your stock suspension sooner and so you'll end up upgrading at some point in the future anyway, but it's not something you need to do right away. All that weight up probably drop the front and make the approach angles even worse than they already are, but the DV8 bumper's extra clearance will make up for that. I ran stock suspension for a few years with a lot of added weight in the rear with no issue, other than the ones I mentioned above. Oh yeah you may have to readjust your headlights, because you'll have a positive rake and the headlight adjustment sensor is on the rear wheels, so it won't know that you're not level

Great point on the headlights. I always assumed the sensor was on the front, cause that would be logical, but hey, toyota!

 

[ClangClang]

Personally, I'd add a small suspension lift with heavy springs up front.
A wee bit off topic but related to what you stated, along with your recovery gear, you may want to include Maxtrax traction boards, straps, a compressor to air up/down when in soft snow/ice and of course HiLift and shovels.
If you haven't already take a look at the Ultimate Took Kit sticky thread on the main forum page for ideas of what to carry along.

Yep, great points. I have a Viair inflator already in my drawers, along with a 30' kinetic tow strap, toolkit, survival stuff, some hard & soft shackles, a snatch block, an E-tool shovel, and Sven Saw. Once I get these sliders on I'll be getting a hi lift. Just have to figure out where to mount it. Maxtrax are on the list as well. Right now my roof is just OEM crossbars with a big Yakima ski box on top. I can probably throw the Maxtrax in there. Not the hi lift though. I think I would need to get an offroad roof rack (Prinsu, etc) to be able to mount the Hi Lift along the edge and still carry the ski box.

 

[jdam]

Great point on the headlights. I always assumed the sensor was on the front, cause that would be logical, but hey, toyota!

It actually makes more sense on the rear - loading and towing affects rear squat

 

[Banandalorian]

From what I can tell in my amateur suspension nerding, you don't *need* uprated springs but you'll notice the extra weight hung off the front. I'm installing my Victory front bumper (~80ish pounds no winch) and sliders this weekend and plan on keep the OEM suspension for at least a bit longer. I figure I'll get some real world testing done with the OEM shocks/springs and will have a good idea if uprated springs will ride better or worse once I get a lift.

 

[Washingtontaco]

I would recommend a basic OME Old Man Emu constant medium load suspension. Its
a basic upgraded springs and shocks. See the fine folks at Slee Offroad Slee Offroad | Toyota Off-Road Outfitters - https://sleeoffroad.com/

Most importantly seek training from a I4WDTA certified trainer. A good friend of mine Matt Balazs ON TRAIL TRAINING | ABOUT - https://www.ontrailtraining.com/about is fairly close by and is the trainer for Colorado 4x4 Rescue and Recovery. Colorado 4×4 Rescue & Recovery – We Recover the Rockies - https://www.co4x4rnr.org/

You will learn how to drive and recover your rig safely.

 

[ClangClang]

I would recommend a basic OME Old Man Emu constant medium load suspension. Its
a basic upgraded springs and shocks. See the fine folks at Slee Offroad Slee Offroad | Toyota Off-Road Outfitters - https://sleeoffroad.com/

Most importantly seek training from a I4WDTA certified trainer. A good friend of mine Matt Balazs ON TRAIL TRAINING | ABOUT - https://www.ontrailtraining.com/about is fairly close by and is the trainer for Colorado 4x4 Rescue and Recovery. Colorado 4×4 Rescue & Recovery – We Recover the Rockies - https://www.co4x4rnr.org/

You will learn how to drive and recover your rig safely.

I'll look into the OME stuff. I've seen their name posted about but haven't done much reading.

Good point on the training. I went to Offroad Skills Camp (3 day offroad training) in UT last year which covered a broad overview of skills including a 1/2 day spent specifically on recovery, but I definitely want to take a dedicated weekend recovery class at some point.

 

[r2m]

I'll look into the OME stuff. I've seen their name posted about but haven't done much reading.

Just a friendly FYI, Old Man Emu and ARB are as Australian as Vegemite. They've cut their teeth on the worst Australia and the rest of the world has to offer. Both are very good companies with a long reputation in off roading. Albeit, I did get a bad from locker from ARB once but they replaced it, no questions asked.

 

[OCGX]

My setup is much heavier, but I have the spring rates dialed.
CBI front bumper with Winch
RCI aluminum skids
RSG sliders
Drawer system w/fridge
JW Tire Carrier
Gamiviti Rack
140lb CVT Mt Hood Tent
Batwing awning
700lbs front
OME Rear Medium 2898

When I added the CBI bumper and Winch, I didn't have a roof rack. Only skids, sliders, and JW tire carrier.
I was running 600lb in the front, and it would nose dive heavily.