That’s what I was thinking. These shocks aren’t totally perpendicular to the direction of travel of the axle but close enough.
Suspension Travel Comparison
- Thread starter TeCKis300
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Finally got my truck on a ramp and unfortunately confirmed something I suspected: the common 600# front springs are too high rate for a stock weight rig.
Despite the extra travel on paper in front and back, I hit basically the exact same number I did with only 10mm strut spacers in front. And the reason is I couldn‘t hit the bump stop in the front on the stuffed side. I forgot to measure the gap, but it was 1/2-3/4”, which should translate to about another 1.5” of stuff at the wheel.
I‘m in contact with Ben at filthy about finding some 550 or possibly 500# springs to address this issue and lower the truck slightly. It is just a bit taller than I want even with the preload adjusters all the way out.
I’ll work on getting some better numbers when I sort this out.
Despite the extra travel on paper in front and back, I hit basically the exact same number I did with only 10mm strut spacers in front. And the reason is I couldn‘t hit the bump stop in the front on the stuffed side. I forgot to measure the gap, but it was 1/2-3/4”, which should translate to about another 1.5” of stuff at the wheel.
I‘m in contact with Ben at filthy about finding some 550 or possibly 500# springs to address this issue and lower the truck slightly. It is just a bit taller than I want even with the preload adjusters all the way out.
I’ll work on getting some better numbers when I sort this out.
Managed to get the rear bump/articulation stops firmly hitting the axle.
Taco2Cruiser
Crazy American Off Road
Did you test it back up? This is where I feel RTI ramps never do any justice for IFS as all the weight shifts to the rear. But when I’m in rock gardens, and the truck is at least flat, the differences in IFS articulation become a lot more significant.
Now if you back up on that ramp, and still can’t get to bumps, yeah, too stiff of a spring.
Intersting observation though, I’ve sent a no front bumper or winch 200 up a ramp with BPs and it touched bump stops. BPs use 750# front springs.
Maybe 200s are still like snow flacks like all the series before them?
I didn’t consider weight transfer at all. But, with the stock suspension I had no problem putting the front on the stop. I did start to back up but the ramp is shallow and I had to have the front tire to the side.. that made things seem pretty sketch, so I didn’t get far. I was going to try and find a ditch to redo it..
I know ramps aren’t the end-all here but was trying to compare to stock. It did work well on the one trip I took it on. As I said I might go to 550s for less height and can compare to the 600s pretty directly.
Taco2Cruiser
Crazy American Off Road
That would be an awesome test. The exact same truck with two different setups!
- Thread starter
- #47
Nice @bloc . Good to see you flexing her out. I like the makeshift ramp you got there.
On front articulation - Yes, looks like it won't compress as readily, but not sure that is really hurting RTI against stock too much as you have that much more down travel to make upfor it (eyeing the last picture in post #42). If you're looking to lower the front and reduce spring rate, could make sense to switch-up and reap increased articulation and compliance off-road. It's always a tough balance of balancing suspension for load bearing vs articulation.
The Kings do look to really maximize travel from your other thread. Possibly to a fault that it takes a bit more work to get it all perfect. But travel numbers should be awesome and make the effort worthwhile.
Any chance you have full droop measurements from hub to fender? Front or rear? From your comments, seems that both could be in realm of 10.5-11" travel which is pretty stout.
On front articulation - Yes, looks like it won't compress as readily, but not sure that is really hurting RTI against stock too much as you have that much more down travel to make upfor it (eyeing the last picture in post #42). If you're looking to lower the front and reduce spring rate, could make sense to switch-up and reap increased articulation and compliance off-road. It's always a tough balance of balancing suspension for load bearing vs articulation.
The Kings do look to really maximize travel from your other thread. Possibly to a fault that it takes a bit more work to get it all perfect. But travel numbers should be awesome and make the effort worthwhile.
Any chance you have full droop measurements from hub to fender? Front or rear? From your comments, seems that both could be in realm of 10.5-11" travel which is pretty stout.
Sadly I forgot to get total droop, but I should be able to do that in my driveway when I have a couple hours. Doesn't require finding time for a trip to the north side of town after business hours etc.
And yes, the fact that I wasn't on the bump but matched my old ramp height means the extra down travel in front and rear is helping.. as Taco pointed out weight transfer might make this thing sit firmly on the bump and end up with even more articulation under different circumstances. If Ben has trouble with the 3x16-550s (he has already said they are non-standard) I might be forced to see what I can do with this setup.. and as it is I'm keeping an eye out for places with more ramp angle to either back up or push it into a ditch and keep more weight on the front axle.
At the end of the day I'm happy with how these perform, especially the damping. It is really impressive how well the truck reacts when hitting large bumps. And in terms of road manners and addressing the generally soft feeling of stock suspension these 600s are awesome. But I'll feel better about things if I can confirm it is using all of the available travel at my current (light) build weight.
Counterpoint - @bloc, you just need more front weight. A Dissent or Trail Tailor bumper, winch, and lights will add 200# and get those springs feeling perfect 
I do actually wonder if you'll eventually touch the bump stops up front, and just need more time to break in your springs. Now that I have 40k miles on my setup I find the front springs have compressed a bit more. I'll see if I can find some pics of install, 500, and 5000 miles though my rear springs were swapped (left-to-right) so my early measurements weren't entirely reflective of reality.
I do actually wonder if you'll eventually touch the bump stops up front, and just need more time to break in your springs. Now that I have 40k miles on my setup I find the front springs have compressed a bit more. I'll see if I can find some pics of install, 500, and 5000 miles though my rear springs were swapped (left-to-right) so my early measurements weren't entirely reflective of reality.
Trust me the “need” to add weight to the front came up. But I don’t think some lights on custom brackets through the grille and an ARB dual compressor will get the job done.Counterpoint - @bloc, you just need more front weight. A Dissent or Trail Tailor bumper, winch, and lights will add 200# and get those springs feeling perfect
I do actually wonder if you'll eventually touch the bump stops up front, and just need more time to break in your springs. Now that I have 40k miles on my setup I find the front springs have compressed a bit more. I'll see if I can find some pics of install, 500, and 5000 miles though my rear springs were swapped (left-to-right) so my early measurements weren't entirely reflective of reality.
They actually did settle some already. In fact they did so unevenly.. when I first installed the system king had dialed in a half thread of extra preload on the passenger side, I’m assuming to level it like most aftermarket rear springs. After a few thousand miles that side was an inch higher than the other and I had to remove that preload and dial two threads into the other side to get it level again. Not sure why they’d settle unevenly.. or maybe I need to wait longer and the pass side will catch up.
- Thread starter
- #51
I was looking at some of @turbo8 old posts to see what spring he runs up front as he's also got a lighter weight setup. Didn't find that info, but did see that with his Tundra arms and Kings, he's getting 12" of suspension travel up front. Wow!
I have 600lb springs.
Is preload not adjusted on yours at the top?
Also interesting mine are 16” springs to your 17”. Yes I know tundra vs cruiser but with so much shared..
Preload is on the bottom.
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so You have a tundra front suspension with 16” 600 pound springs? How close are the coils on the compressed side ? Anywhere near touching?
No I have cruiser suspension and turbo8 has tundra stuff.
Front ride height (center of hub to fender) 23"
Front droop (center of hub to fender) 26"
I know at full bottom out, my upper arm uniball sockets kiss the inner fenders which are 11-12" away from the inner fenders at full droop.
I have plastic guy bumps in the front, that are a lot thicker than stock. They hinder suspension travel in flexing situations, but cushion hard hits a lot better than the stock bumps.
I'll try to get the rear measurements soon. I do know there is 10-11" between the axle and the bumps at droop.
Front droop (center of hub to fender) 26"
I know at full bottom out, my upper arm uniball sockets kiss the inner fenders which are 11-12" away from the inner fenders at full droop.
I have plastic guy bumps in the front, that are a lot thicker than stock. They hinder suspension travel in flexing situations, but cushion hard hits a lot better than the stock bumps.
I'll try to get the rear measurements soon. I do know there is 10-11" between the axle and the bumps at droop.
I hope this information helps everyone in getting their Land Cruiser suspension dialed in. I have benefited from this information so far and maybe some can benefit from my thoughts and data. My 2007 Tundra currently has the Dobinson C59-610 coils 737 lb/inch spring rate, 11 wraps, and 16.14" free height. They are paired with GS59-710 shocks which are for stock to +2" ride height. The rear is stock with OME shocks. The front rides at 23.75" hub to fender and measures 27.75" at full droop (on a jack). The rear sits at 24.25" and 29" at full droop. I am having one hell of a time getting the front suspension to compress or droop more than 1.5" . The front has the stock anti-sway bar limiting it. Meanwhile, the rear will compress 7.75" (16.5" hub to fender)and droop 8.25" (32.5" hub to fender). This was accomplished by driving the front right tire and left rear tire onto things. I did manage to get the rear bumpstop to contact the frame but just barely. The truck has more flex but my obstacles were not adequate to max it out.
Now to my point, Turbo8 has Tundra front suspension with King coilovers and it looks like he has 3" of down travel at normal ride height. If that truck has 12" of travel, then the hub to fender would measure about 14" at full compression. That is 2.5" more tire in the fender than my rear tire in the attached photo. That is impressive!
Now to my point, Turbo8 has Tundra front suspension with King coilovers and it looks like he has 3" of down travel at normal ride height. If that truck has 12" of travel, then the hub to fender would measure about 14" at full compression. That is 2.5" more tire in the fender than my rear tire in the attached photo. That is impressive!
Driver rear is sittings at 23" and 26.5" at droop.
With 9" between the axle and the bump stop.
Passenger rear is 23.5" and 27.5 at droop.
With 10" between the axle and the bump stop.
(I'm assuming the bump will compress an inch)
This is with about a 1/4 full tank.
I couldn't figure out why the RR would droop out another inch than the DR. The shocks had the same amount of shaft showing and same amount of threads showing on the top mount.
With 9" between the axle and the bump stop.
Passenger rear is 23.5" and 27.5 at droop.
With 10" between the axle and the bump stop.
(I'm assuming the bump will compress an inch)
This is with about a 1/4 full tank.
I couldn't figure out why the RR would droop out another inch than the DR. The shocks had the same amount of shaft showing and same amount of threads showing on the top mount.