AltFuel Supplemental Hydrogen Generator

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Cool thread so far. Dougal, it seems as though you are the perfect candidate to build one and post some results. After all, it's a few bucks in materials and you seem over-qualified for the job. As a side note, anyone see the mythbusters episode on making biodiesel? They basically concluded that it was far too difficult to make and you have a net loss once you factor in electricity of making it and collecting it with filters etc. I personally make my own biodiesel so I find their conclusions contrary to my own. Depending on the cost of methanol, one can generally make biodiesel for less than a dollar a gallon.
 
Cool thread so far. Dougal, it seems as though you are the perfect candidate to build one

Man, I have enough trouble finishing the projects I've already started, without adding new ones.:doh:
 
talking to one of the CAT engine mechanics at work the other day, he told me about how he worked on a few CAT engines that were adding hydrogen into the air intake of some of the big diesel motors. I guess they are getting much better efficiency and when the mechanical load increases they dont get the cloud of black smoke anymore. Supposed to keep the motors real clean as well. He was telling me i guess this is pretty popular on some of the busses in other countries as well.
 
HHO on 2003 Hilux

Not sure if my questions has already been addressed here, if it has, maybe someone can point me in the right direction.
So I'm driving a 2003 Toyota Hilux. It's a diesel, non-turbo model. I live in Honduras for those wondering. My question is this - I've recently purchased an HHO kit and installed it. I've run the output tube from the electrolyzer straight into the intake after the air filter. The problem is, there is no vacuum, so the hydrogen is getting into the engine. Does anyone know what I can do to somehow force the hydrogen in? I think there is a vacuum pump on the engine that creates vacuum for the brakes, but that's it for vacuum lines. There are NO vacuum lines going into the engine.
Any suggestions?

Beau
 
As your engine sucks air in for combustion it should suck the hho in also. I hope your using a bubbler between the hho gen and the intake. How many lpm of hho are you producing?
 
Moe R - that's what I would think as well, but diesels don't really produce much vacuum. This is the problem that I'm having. I need to know if some guys are using some sort of vacuum pump or something to force the hydrogen into the intake. That "sucking" that takes place for combustion is to little.
Not sure on how man lpm i'm producing, but I know it's producing.
Any more suggestions?
Thanks
 
well, they don't produce vaccuum, but they do move an awful lot of air down the intake.

Think of the displacement of the engine in litres, then multiply that by rpm. It takes some serious force to move that much air down a 2.5 inch hole in one minute.

when it's revved up, it would probably suck a cat through the engine.

so I wouldn't worry too much , if the gas is going in to the intake tube, it'll make it to the engine.
 
regarding the vaccuum issue. For propane injection into the intake don't tey say you need a turbo? I'm sure with a turbo there would be no problem sucking it in...
 
Im just going to hit the salvage yard, scrap metal yards, spark up the air compressor and the mig... then throw together a good old fashion gasifier. :D

Let the phawking homeowners association say something about that!


oh wait... thats right... I no longer have to answer to a homeowners association... I live in the fricken middle of no where...... Coulee Dam, WA... :cheers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXgtDyp9GsE
 
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well, they don't produce vaccuum, but they do move an awful lot of air down the intake.

Think of the displacement of the engine in litres, then multiply that by rpm. It takes some serious force to move that much air down a 2.5 inch hole in one minute.

when it's revved up, it would probably suck a cat through the engine.

so I wouldn't worry too much , if the gas is going in to the intake tube, it'll make it to the engine.

Yeah. If you take off your air filter hose into the intake and put a rag over the hole (in a diesel or in a gas burner), it will get sucked right into the engine. Ask me how I know...
 
regarding the vaccuum issue. For propane injection into the intake don't tey say you need a turbo? I'm sure with a turbo there would be no problem sucking it in...
I owned a dual fuel (gas and propane) FJ40 for a few days. No turbo. Virtually none of the dual fuel vehicles are turbo.
 
Wait, didn't the Cuyahoga catch fire? Who says you can't burn water? When my wife cooks, she regularly burns water. Also, when I pee, it sometimes burns, doesn't that mean that my piss is on fire a little bit (and hence burning)?

Wait...no...really...

Just watch, that Japanese car on that Reuters vid will turn out to be legit and all of us skeptics will be eating crow, even the vegan skeptics...

I am a man of science. I am a true-born skeptic. Here's a few ways that the HHO systems MIGHT work: If the electrolysis was performed SOLELY by use of an energy supply that would create zero parasitic drag on the vehicle (aka "waste energy") such as with exhaust heat--like a turbo, or regenerative braking that would charge a battery which would then electrolyze water (inefficient, but totally within the realm of the known laws of physics), or even flush, no-drag, roof-mounted solar panels.

But from the alternator? Perpetual motion machine. As others have said before over and over again, in a frictionless environment with a perfect superconductor, you might break even.

HHO = homeopathy, chiropractic, TM, chelation therapy, and dare I say, accupuncture, to mention a few.
 
Wait, didn't the Cuyahoga catch fire? Who says you can't burn water? When my wife cooks, she regularly burns water. Also, when I pee, it sometimes burns, doesn't that mean that my piss is on fire a little bit (and hence burning)?

Wait...no...really...

Just watch, that Japanese car on that Reuters vid will turn out to be legit and all of us skeptics will be eating crow, even the vegan skeptics...

I am a man of science. I am a true-born skeptic. Here's a few ways that the HHO systems MIGHT work: If the electrolysis was performed SOLELY by use of an energy supply that would create zero parasitic drag on the vehicle (aka "waste energy") such as with exhaust heat--like a turbo, or regenerative braking that would charge a battery which would then electrolyze water (inefficient, but totally within the realm of the known laws of physics), or even flush, no-drag, roof-mounted solar panels.

But from the alternator? Perpetual motion machine. As others have said before over and over again, in a frictionless environment with a perfect superconductor, you might break even.

HHO = homeopathy, chiropractic, TM, chelation therapy, and dare I say, accupuncture, to mention a few.

OMG was this funny! As to the substantive discussion, there are such strong views on this that I sincerely think that the only way either the skeptics or the proponents will ever be convinced of the others position is somebody needs to buy one and then set up an empirical test, open to any and all to witness, say at some huge event like Rubicon, etc.
 
And someone could also set up booth where you could get your spine aligned so you won't get hay fever anymore...:rolleyes:
 
I am a man of science. I am a true-born skeptic.

HHO = homeopathy, chiropractic, TM, chelation therapy, and dare I say, accupuncture, to mention a few.

Some astonishing narrow-mindedness there - sad to read. Chiropractic really saved my back (and I had lots of experience with the conventional allopathic strategies), and after 30 years suffering from allergies I finally found help with acupuncture (after years of no success with conventional treatments, over the counter products, etc.). I'm not ready to dismiss acupuncture, a 3000 year old medical art from China quite so glibly.

The easy thing about being a skeptic is the safety of the position I would say. There's much to fear in new, thretening ideas, and it is always an option to jump on the bandwagon later of course, if the idea pans out.

Most new ideas are greeted with skepticism and derision at first - it is pretty much axiomatic.

:idea: I suppose, tofudebeast, had you been around 100-odd years ago when the automobile first appeared on the scene, you might have been among the skeptics in the horse and buggy crowd? Or amongst the "that'll never fly" deriders who thought at the end of the 1800's, I'm sure, that the Wright brothers were just wasting their time with those silly flying machines.

Remember, at one point in western medical development, many doctors were skeptical of germ theory, and many died as a result. I could go on....
 
The easy thing about being a skeptic is the safety of the position I would say. There's much to fear in new, thretening ideas, and it is always an option to jump on the bandwagon later of course, if the idea pans out.

So you'd be keen to buy some shares in my new perpetual motion machine then?:D
 
Not quite yet Dougal - perhaps you could get the US Treasury to give you some cash though, as they seem to be keen to hand it out these days.

Sometimes I'm an early-adopter of technology, though mostly I adopt a wait-and-see approach, and try to be open-minded rather than rushing to condemn, as there is more between heaven and earth than I can dream of in my philosophy (paraphrasing the old adage here).

I didn't choose to get an HJ47 due to it's advanced technology - I wanted something i could fix myself. So far so good.
 
Some astonishing narrow-mindedness there - sad to read. Chiropractic really saved my back (and I had lots of experience with the conventional allopathic strategies), and after 30 years suffering from allergies I finally found help with acupuncture (after years of no success with conventional treatments, over the counter products, etc.). I'm not ready to dismiss acupuncture, a 3000 year old medical art from China quite so glibly.

The easy thing about being a skeptic is the safety of the position I would say. There's much to fear in new, thretening ideas, and it is always an option to jump on the bandwagon later of course, if the idea pans out.

Most new ideas are greeted with skepticism and derision at first - it is pretty much axiomatic.

:idea: I suppose, tofudebeast, had you been around 100-odd years ago when the automobile first appeared on the scene, you might have been among the skeptics in the horse and buggy crowd? Or amongst the "that'll never fly" deriders who thought at the end of the 1800's, I'm sure, that the Wright brothers were just wasting their time with those silly flying machines.

Remember, at one point in western medical development, many doctors were skeptical of germ theory, and many died as a result. I could go on....

Henry, as a recognized diesel guru 'round here, I respect you. What critics of skepticim do not seem to understand is that skepticism is not the same thing as cynicism. Show me verifiable, testable, repeatable proof of the cause/effect of any of the remedies/treatments OTHER THAN ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE, and then you can say your "belief" in those things is grounded in science. Science is merely a method, a process, not a set of beliefs. Unless and untill chiropractic, accupuncture (regardless of its age), etc. are empiracally shown to have actual efficacy, you're deep into placebo territory and wishful thinking. Such is the case with HHO.

It's not the same as a criticsm of practicality; your horse and buggy example is poor as an analogy. Few people back then ever said: "cars are a theoretical, ununproven technology...they're snake oil", rather they said "who the hell needs that ugly, loud, stink monstrosity?!" Not the same thing...

As for accupuncture being 3000 years old and therefore 'there's gotta be something legit to it'...well prayer is at least as old as humans (H. sapiens sapiens) are, and that's not science either (and also is proven to work--through a reduction in cortisol, among other stress hormones, i.e. placebo effect).

Narrow-minded? Hardly. Fearful of new things? Um...I run B100. Damn near everything about me is fringe (just ask around), it's just that I do look before I leap... With HHO, I looked, and I saw a big fat pit with a sign in front of it that said "Suckers, jump here".

HHO a new idea!? HARDLY! Electrolysis is a 208 year-old technology. Splitting water is not new, nor is burning hydrogen for fuel. You know what else is not new? People with a substandard understanding of science (physics, anatomy, physiology, etc.) eager for relief (medical, financial, etc.) who get taken for a ride by a predatory charlatan. Second oldest business. Used up poo-nanny was what they were hocking, the left-overs from the oldest business. Thus, HHO= rotten crotch, if you follow my analogy.

Oh, as for your experience with a Chiropractor and your back...that's great, but while it may have been a chiropractor who worked on you, what you got was physical therapy, a proven science, NOT CHIROPRACTIC. Go read about it...

As for your allergies, you do know that people can suddenly get them, and people can suddenly lose them...with or without any treatment.
 
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