AltFuel Supplemental Hydrogen Generator

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Eran Sher papers

So far I have had no luck converting these pdf's,

However for those interested I did upload them to a site called opensourceenergy.us they can be viewed there.
There are four files and I believe they are well worth reading
They are in a section titled Published papers.

I would also be interested in your comments

PS,
My current cell design is a totally sealed edge unit ( no plate edge losses) and will produce 6 litres per minute, for 670W input,
not exactly a glass jar and two wires.
gas temp 20c
 
moggywan said:
One experiment describes setting RPM, adjusting timing for max torque and then adding hydrogen while reducing fuel but maintaining torque figures, BSFC (brake specific fuel consumption) is then measured.
I take this to mean 2-6 % of the gas only.

I still need some advice on converting a pdf to say a jpeg so I can send you the info.

Ray.
Click to expand...

moggywan said:
So far I have had no luck converting these pdf's,

However for those interested I did upload them to a site called opensourceenergy.us they can be viewed there.
There are four files and I believe they are well worth reading
They are in a section titled Published papers.

I would also be interested in your comments

PS,
My current cell design is a totally sealed edge unit ( no plate edge losses) and will produce 6 litres per minute, for 670W input,
not exactly a glass jar and two wires.
gas temp 20c
Click to expand...

Papers are here: Downloads - HHO - Open Source Energy

Reading as far as I care to, they quote 6% hydrogen by mass produced 20% fuel economy gains.

If I assume a (petrol) cruiser gets 15mpg, 6% hydrogen would increase economy by 20% -> 18mpg. At 60mph, such a cruiser is consuming 0.17kg/min of gasoline and 0.011kg/min of hydrogen. Thats a LOT of hydrogen - 123.2 liters per minute.

Keep in mind that this is the volume of the hydrogen only, the oxygen doesn't count, so if you're making "HHO" you need to multiply the volume by 1.5, so you need 184L/min of HHO to reach the 6% hydrogen enrichment that the paper says will yield 20% gains.

If anything, this paper seems to disprove the claims in this thread.

Note that I don't care enough to read the whole thing. I would assume that if the secret to cold fusion is contained somewhere in these papers that they'd have mentioned it in a prominent location.
 
amaurer said:
Papers are here: Downloads - HHO - Open Source Energy

Reading as far as I care to, they quote 6% hydrogen by mass produced 20% fuel economy gains.
Click to expand...

That's a boatload of hydrogen.
Because a litre of hydrogen is around 14 times lighter than air, 6% by mass works out to a volume percentage of 46% hydrogen.

You'll need a hydrogen tanker following you around to deliver that much, it's not a situation acheivable outside a well equipped lab.
 
Dougal said:
That's a boatload of hydrogen.

Because a litre of hydrogen is around 14 times lighter than air, 6% by mass works out to a volume percentage of 46% hydrogen.



You'll need a hydrogen tanker following you around to deliver that much, it's not a situation acheivable outside a well equipped lab.
Click to expand...



Its 6% of the fuel by mass, not the intake charge. Same result though, a boatload of hydr
 
Volcano cruiser said:
Nice...and about what I thought. I just wonder how many they've sold already.
Click to expand...

At $1000 a pop, hopefully none.

I know some thingk it's morally wrong to let a sucker keep their money, but I'm still against outright BS.
 
You dont need Hydrogen to Increase your Gas Mileage

I suspect that most people who are attempting to increase their gas mileage are not using one or more of the many free ways there are to increase their mileage. Some of these are obvious, but since my kids dont think of them, maybe they will be useful to some of you, also.

1. Combine tasks to lower the number of miles you have to go. I know, this is one of those master of the obvious suggestions, but how many people do it?

2. Check the air in your tires. This can increase your mileage by from 2 to 4 miles per gallon. It should be noted here that big knobby tires cause a lot of friction and reduce gas mileage.

3. If you are driving a pickup, make sure you have a bed cover, or drive with the tailgate down if your state allows it. That tailgate is a sail that works against you.

4. Change the way you drive. Do not race from red light to red light. Coast to red lights in the hope of not having to come to a complete stop. Your vehicle, regardless of type, uses a lot more fuel to get going than it does to keep going. Make Inertia work for, not against you.

5. In hotter months, drive with the air on, windows up. The drag created with the windows open uses more fuel than your air conditioner.

6. Change your oil as recommended by your vehicles manufacturer.

7. Car Pool. Does anyone think about this anymore? if every driver took just one passenger to work each day, it would cut the number of cars on the road by half, therefore cutting the traffic by half, therefore cutting stop and go by half, cutting wear and tear on the roads by half, and doubling the funds available for fuel. The problem with car pooling is that Americans are spoiled rotten. They want what they want, and they want it now. God forbid they should have to wait to leave work and sit in traffic that would not have been there had they car pooled. See how ridiculous this is????

Now the Hydrogen generator: Modern day engines have computers, and so many sensors that injecting a foreign substance into the process will probably make the computer to go into safety mode where the engine runs rich and burns excessive gasoline. The computer would have to be programmed to deal with the hydrogen, if you could produce enough to make any difference. The units I have seen making bubbles are a grammar school science experiment. The problem with Hydrogen production has always been that it takes more energy to create it, or to Break down H2O than the gas that the process creates. The other problem is how corrosive Hydrogen is. What is this gas going to do to your valve stems and other interior engine components??? Do you know???? Are you willing to risk your motor???

Do the things I listed above and see if that dosen't get you a few more miles per gallon.
 
I was reading with interest until the bickering started, so I skipped to the end because I wanted to relate my experience. There is a guy in our club with a 1991 HDJ 81 with an HHO setup. He claims no improvement in mileage but an increase in seat of the pants power. He also claims a reduction in visible smoke. I back this last part up as my 1991 HDJ 81 smokes more than his on the trails. The 1HDT is a smokey bugger when it is cold (slow wheeling) and this is an annoyance. He does, however, have a valve to shut off the gas flow when he is highly off camber- to prevent any solid water entering the intake.

This vid should give you an idea of the smoke I'm talking about when cold- his is much cleaner, and I dont loose oil between changes BTW...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E94n1i4X3-c
 
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That looks like grey smoke from late/incomplete combustion. Try advancing the injection timing a little and see if that reduces it.
 
so anybody tried with success ? im thinking of getting a unit just wonder about water vapour getting into the air intake , can a little water vapour hydrolock a diesel >? there is seemingly safe flash back arresters now though that should stop water vapour
doing it to a 3b with turboglide setup and im going to tap it into the air intake just pre turbo or should i go pre air cleaner ?
heres some links on believable likely hho units

YouTube - 118 plate MASSIVE hydrogen generator build part1

On demand HHO hydrogen generators

theres a guy in australia making huge claims with his unit running at 12 amps running a v6 doubling his mpg , hell my car stereo chews much more than that but am i missing something ? heres link

YouTube - Gen 10 triple cell dry cell Hydrogen generator for cars, trucks, motor homes, and camper-vans
 
Build it yourself for the fun of it to see if it works, but don't spend a fortune on a premade one.

I built one, used it to make some cool explosive balloons but haven't tried it in a vehicle. Not worried about the mileage in my 42, I kinda wanted to pick up a cheap 22re minitruck and experiment with that, but got busy with other things.

Maybe one day, or, I'll sell it for a fortune on ebay and make wild claims about how well it works...:lol:
 
I have been getting ads for these from a bio-diesel equipment seller. I thought he was a reputable guy but now...

He may really believe it works or is just trying to sell his good name and e-mail list for profit.

I may build one for the 45 this summer just to try it. The 45 has no computers or sensors to interfere and it should only cost a few bucks.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
 
There is a reasonably good article in the Feb 2010 issue of Fuel which specifically addresses H2/O2 mixtures produced from electrolysis:

S. Bari, M. Mohammad Esmaeil, Effect of H2/O2 addition in increasing the thermal efficiency of a diesel engine. Fuel Feb 2010, Vol. 89 Issue 2, p378-383

Abstract:
...
This paper focuses on evaluating the performance enhancement of a conventional diesel engine through the addition of H2/O2 mixture, generated through water electrolysis. The experimental works were carried out under constant speed with varying load and amount of H2/O2 mixture. Results show that by using 4.84%, 6.06%, and 6.12% total diesel equivalent of H2/O2 mixture the brake thermal efficiency increased from 32.0% to 34.6%, 32.9% to 35.8% and 34.7% to 36.3% at 19 kW, 22 kW and 28 kW, respectively. These resulted in 15.07%, 15.16% and 14.96% fuel savings. The emissions of HC, CO2 and CO decreased, whereas the NOx emission increased.
Click to expand...

The interesting bits (IMO):

A Hino WO4D, four-cylinder, direct injection, and water cooled diesel engine was used in this experiment. ... The engine was mounted to an electrical generator and the generator was then connected to an adjustable load cell to put load on the engine. A schematic diagram of the experimental setup is shown in Fig. 1. The mixture of H2/O2 was generated by electrolysing water using an oxy-hydrogen generator machine, Epoch EP-500.

...

The flame speed of hydrogen is nine times faster than the flame speed of diesel [5,10]. Therefore, burning diesel in the presence of hydrogen will result in overall faster and more complete combustion. This will result in higher peak pressure closer to TDC and therefore, will produce a higher effective pressure to do work. These have contributed to improve the efficiency. However, the increase in efficiency diminishes after 5% total diesel equivalent of H2/O2 mixture (flow rate of 25 l/min), and therefore, the flow rate of H2/O2 mixture were kept to a maximum of 6% total diesel equivalent of H2/O2 mixture (30 l/min).

...

Senthil Kumar [10] also found an increase in brake thermal efficiency from 30.3% to 32% while running a diesel engine at 1500 rpm and full load condition with 7% hydrogen mass share addition. Though their studies used pure hydrogen as an additive and this study used H2/O2 mixture as an additive, but the results showed similar improvement as it is the hydrogen which acted as additive to improve the performance.
Click to expand...

So that people don't get carried away: this study says the maximum result you can ever expect from H2/O2 enrichment is about 6%, or 1.5mpg for a truck that gets 25mpg. Even that is only possible if your generator will give you 25L/min - about one trash bag every 60s.
 
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I don't think that there is any debate that about the effectiveness of burning hydrogen as a fuel. The absurdity is the people that fall for the concept that they can generate enough hydrogen from a jug of water and some hardware store junk hooked up to their alternator to generate enough of it to affect anything.... that they can do it without ever needed to even replace the water from some of their claims.

Kinda like the guys buying the "Vortex generators" to stick in their intake ducting... or the squirrel cage exhaust fans off of the net that they think are "Electric superchargesr".


These sort of things just make me shake my head at the lack of common sense and... stupidity of so many people in the world.


Mark...
 
I'd like to see that generator set running with the timing more advanced. I suspect you'd get most (maybe all) of that efficiency increase just by advancing it a few degrees.

Which brings me back to the other point. Why don't manufacturers run more advanced timing?
Because it increases noise, greatly increases peak cylinder pressures, delays boost (less energy to the turbocharger turbine) and increases NOx emissions.
 
You should watch the whole thing to understand what he really had here. And yes, he is a tad kooky, but what great scientist isn't.

Einstein said: “If at first the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it.”

 
He wasn't a scientist, he was a fraud. Big difference there.

Many fraud's claim to be scientists, but you won't find any scientists claim to be frauds.
 
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