Stronger trunnion bearings for HZJ75, where in north america?!

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it's confusing, some people say here 8series got the same as 7, some same the opposite?!?
I also think the 7series changed in 2001 with the HZJ78 the complete axles... so we are talking here about a HZJ75, not a HZJ78.

locktup4x4 from Australia wrote me that the stronger bearing they use is a Koyo TR0305AF4. Looking at pictures on the internet they SEEM to look the same as the Koyo TR0305C-9 but I am not sure. Anyone knows the difference here?

Yeah, as said, I got around 3.6-3.8tons depending on my water & diesel. I do always air down when offroading, but the 33" tires don't help either...
 
Oh, boy....

There are basically two vintages of trunion bearings - the ones that are a 30303-based bearing (and NB: the Toyota bearings have a different taper angle than over the counter bearings!!) Get the Toyota taper and not the aftermarket / over the counter ones. And then the later ones that are a 30304-based bearing.

The 1990 and later 70 series with High Pinion front ends and the 80 series (with high pinion front ends) use the later (larger) bearing. EDIT (2013 02 27) the HP 70 series front ends do not use the larger bearing until they went with the coil spring front ends in 1999 (thank you for correcting my error Blade).

The knuckle kits that almost everyone sells that have first line bearings (Koyo & NSK for example) will have the correct taper angle - this only seems to apply to the earlier bearing 30303-based bearing from what I have seen.

The TR0305A bearing is the smaller 30303-based bearing.

Hi-Cap bearings, IMHO, will not make very much difference in this application, but high quality bearings will.

As has been mentioned before, by myself and others, Proper shimming and lubrication will make much more of a difference in longevity.


~John
 
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Blade said:
it's confusing, some people say here 8series got the same as 7, some same the opposite?!?
I also think the 7series changed in 2001 with the HZJ78 the complete axles... so we are talking here about a HZJ75, not a HZJ78.

locktup4x4 from Australia wrote me that the stronger bearing they use is a Koyo TR0305AF4. Looking at pictures on the internet they SEEM to look the same as the Koyo TR0305C-9 but I am not sure. Anyone knows the difference here?

Yeah, as said, I got around 3.6-3.8tons depending on my water & diesel. I do always air down when offroading, but the 33" tires don't help either...
Click to expand...

Hi-Cap bearings usually add more balls or rollers and to increase contact surface area, this comes at the compromise of the rollers and balls often being somewhat smaller or, alternatively, packed more closely together.

There are also long-life bearings which can come in several different types, and often have alloying with provides for better life in difficult or more contaminated environments. These often have alloys and hardness ratings that help them resist wear (pitting, brinelling etc.) in certain situations.

I am not sure that the higher capacity bearings in the trunions will have all that much effect - these bearings are operating at very, very low rotational speeds (it's really almost nil), and handle quite a lot of pressure. I think that proper pre-loading and proper lubrication are going to be the most key component in bearing life given that a high quality bearing is used.

I do have first-hand experience in servicing quite a few front ends where knuckle kits were used and the bearings were from an "off-shore" source (think: Trail Gear [caveat: of a few years ago]) - these bearings absolutely did not last anywhere near as long as the Japanese Koyo bearings.

So, back to what Onur said, get the Toyota parts (or equivalent) and be done - don't over-think this.


~John
 
Squash said:
...Old Koyo # FA17001 maybe
Click to expand...

That was never an actual Koyo #, rather our derived (and current) part number for the E-90 knuckle bearing (90366-17001), FA is our coding for Front Axle. Likewise, our part number FA20003 is the 90366-20003, all Koyo, all correct tapers, just in a blue Koyo box rather than a red Toyota box :D
 
To reiterate what John was saying... regardless of your heavy weight, and large (somewhat) tires, and miles spent off-road, I would say the preload (shimming) was not correct. The Koyo bearings (ie: toyota) are very good quality, and should last three times what they did (ie: 90k kms), even under these conditions.

Question: are you running wheel spacers? What makes you say the bottom bearings are shot? Are your knuckles leaking? Or is there actual play in the knuckle? If there is play (ie: looseness), are you certain it is the trunnion bearing and not the wheel bearing (I ask because I see the wheel bearings loosen up often, when the wheel bearing preload isn't set correct).
 
Blade said:
Yeah, as said, I got around 3.6-3.8tons depending on my water & diesel. I do always air down when offroading, but the 33" tires don't help either...
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I dont think its the weight or the tyres either. Lots of owners do this in australia with slide on campers and boats up top.
You are not going to get anything stronger that what Toyota/Koyo serve up.
 
For what it's worth. The lower bearing gets a fraction of the abuse of the upper one. It is always the upper race that shows indexing. The fact that the OP has a lower bearing failure after 40,000km says to me that stronger bearings may not be the answer. This is especially true on a post 1990 front end which should stand up even better. Overloaded Land Cruisers run down bumpy roads with some regularity and the knuckles aren't falling off them.
 
I am still stuck in Baja.. after 3 weeks of waiting UPS just totally screwed it up and the package is going from Tijuana back to Utah via Oklahoma (yeah, it's on the way! Why not travel around the whole US with my bearings...) Anyway, it seems that I will be stuck 2-3 more weeks till I get my parts because of the total disqualification of UPS! Nobody at UPS knows why it's being returned...the only response from them: "just resend it again" haha, funny...

There is absolutly no leaks, the oil was also clean when I did an oil change about 2000miles ago.
When moving the wheel 3/9 it doesn't move at all, there is no play. Only at 6/12. And when moving at 6/12 you see that the lower part of the knuckle moves, the top part doesn't, so I guess it's the lower bearing.
And no, I am not using wheels spacers on the front, only small ones on the rear...

Now I will keep eating Tacos down here in Baja and getting a gastric ulcer because of UPS...
 
John, you are starting to sound very much like me.
who did the rebuild?
did they do it properly?
sounds to me like the shimming was done incorrectly.
clean grease does not indicate a properly done rebuild.

i will disagree with John on the 30303 taper angle. i have been running the Koyo 30303 with the "wrong" angle for decades with no issues. this being said, if you can locate the proper angled bearings or if you want to pay extra for the Toyota cardboard boxing then go that way.

once again, curious as to who did your work.
 
Blade said:
I am still stuck in Baja.. after 3 weeks of waiting UPS just totally screwed it up and the package is going from Tijuana back to Utah via Oklahoma (yeah, it's on the way! Why not travel around the whole US with my bearings...) Anyway, it seems that I will be stuck 2-3 more weeks till I get my parts because of the total disqualification of UPS! Nobody at UPS knows why it's being returned...the only response from them: "just resend it again" haha, funny...

There is absolutly no leaks, the oil was also clean when I did an oil change about 2000miles ago.
When moving the wheel 3/9 it doesn't move at all, there is no play. Only at 6/12. And when moving at 6/12 you see that the lower part of the knuckle moves, the top part doesn't, so I guess it's the lower bearing.
And no, I am not using wheels spacers on the front, only small ones on the rear...

Now I will keep eating Tacos down here in Baja and getting a gastric ulcer because of UPS...
Click to expand...


You know what UPS stands for right? The first word is useless, the second is pieces, the third Ill leave to the imagination.

Enjoy the heat though, its cold up in calgary. :flipoff2:
 
so, I finally could drive to the mainland. UPSfinally delivered the part BUT they send me the wrong one from the USA, AS EXPECTED. I don't know why they ALWAYS screw up things, although you tell them 10x to make 100% sure it's the right part!
Anyway, another week later we fixed that quickly. The top bearing had water and was totally rusty. The top arm didn't have any shim, so I guess that's why water entered it. I adjusted everything new with the shims to spec, regreased everything and everything looks like new now and hopefully it should be water tight now.
I still wanted to write all the numbers for future references:

My 1993 HZJ75 uses a 8series Marlin seal on the front, that is 90310-35010mc , NOT the smaller 4/6series one!

On the bearing I had the Koyo TR0305C-9 HI-CAP installed. It's MUCH steeper than the new Toyota Part Toyota OEM 90366-17001-77 (this is the new Toyo number, the old number as shown on Toyodiy.com is 90366‑17007 ) . This is the same as KOYO TR0305AF4 , on the bearing itself only written TR0305A.
It's less steeper so I guess better to adjust and better to distribute the power, but can't be for sure.
And I am not sure what Toyo part number the old TR0305C-9 is.

I also added sideview pictures of the outer ring, the new TR0305A (right on picture) is less high than the old TR0305C-9.
But with the bearing installed it seems to be the same height, so it's only the ring. I guess
that's because of the different roller angle.

The felt and seals were unique to my car, the ones they send me from a 6series did not fit at all!
topview.webp
sideview.webp
height.webp
 
On long trips - I carry a birf, axle, knuckle, wheel bearings and seals. I would even carry more going to the Baja.
 
you consider Baja a long trip? So what do you consider going to Argentina as we do? :))
We can't carry that much.. I already carry a lot more than most LC travelers (wheel bearing, brake pads, filters, brake cylinder, water pump, timing belt etc.) Most european LC drivers don't carry anything like me and most never have any issues compared to the Landrover drives who carry half the car because it fails all the time.
I had bad luck that this shim was missing from the person that rebuild it before, otherwise I don't think you will ever have to rebuild a birf or replace an axle on such a trip. Sure, if you leave with a car in bad shape... but our car had a frame off resto 3 years ago and we got around 3.9tons and trust me, on a trip that takes 3-4 years you carry other things than axles and birfs! At least we do...
It's always a tough decision on what to carry, but you can't carry everything...
my opinion to this...

Michel
www.pawsontour.com
 
Carrying spares is always a difficult trade-off, but that stuff I mentioned takes very little room in my small BJ74 and if it avoids an experience like you have through then I would consider it well worth the trade-off.
If have seen knuckle bearings and briffs explode on the trail before.
 
everything can fail on such a trip as for example my lifetime warranty aluminum rims from the USA. But since that means nothing with made in USA things I was screwed up a few weeks ago stuck in Mexico with a broken rim...
knuckle and birf is definatly something I will never carry, too heavy, too big for my trip and I NEVER heard of anyone in Europe carrying something like that on his trips. I guess everyone has it's different priorities. A trunnion bearing should also hold more than 40'000km if sealed correctly with the shims, that should also have not failed on me...
Home on the Highway (www.homeonthehighway.com) did even send back most of his spare parts home that I carry around and wouldn't send back.

Many parts you can get on the road and if an axle really fails or a birf you can somehow get it. Sometimes it also means to wait for a few weeks. But you can't cover all possible problems. I guess that also makes the trip more adventerous ;)

my 2 cents
 
Blade said:
everything can fail on such a trip as for example my lifetime warranty aluminum rims from the USA. But since that means nothing with made in USA things I was screwed up a few weeks ago stuck in Mexico with a broken rim...
knuckle and birf is definatly something I will never carry, too heavy, too big for my trip and I NEVER heard of anyone in Europe carrying something like that on his trips. I guess everyone has it's different priorities. A trunnion bearing should also hold more than 40'000km if sealed correctly with the shims, that should also have not failed on me...
Home on the Highway (www.homeonthehighway.com) did even send back most of his spare parts home that I carry around and wouldn't send back.

Many parts you can get on the road and if an axle really fails or a birf you can somehow get it. Sometimes it also means to wait for a few weeks. But you can't cover all possible problems. I guess that also makes the trip more adventerous ;)

my 2 cents
Click to expand...

I did not say knuckle ??- knuckle bearings - birf without the axle is quite small - they can break wheeling, but if you are pounding pavement most of the time - I agree low chance of breakage.
 
If I'm going anywhere out of the way I carry the parts to replace a birfield even though I've only broken one of the darn things in 25 years of running Cruisers. A huge amount of it is about driving style and how the vehicle is set up.

~John
 
this
and knowing when to use the winch over the right foot
and
lack of front locker helps immensly.
Radd Cruisers said:
If I'm going anywhere out of the way I carry the parts to replace a birfield even though I've only broken one of the darn things in 25 years of running Cruisers. A huge amount of it is about driving style and how the vehicle is set up.

~John
Click to expand...
 
25 years???
My IP on my 1HZ failed after only 150'000km on the engine in Canada (thanks to the great Diesel in North america...)
Should I also carry a whole IP next time? ;)
What about a 6th rim, failed after 30'000km. Or a complete axle as it failed on a friends HZJ78 right now in Mexico. (very few offroading with that car!)
Come on guys... you can't carry half a car with you. EVERYTHING can fail! Either you travel VERY different to us or you never traveled for 2-3 years in such a car. But we are carrying
just some filters, belts etc. Stuff that is stupid to have to wait for a few weeks if it fails. But axles, birfs, IP is for me way too much and if you ask ANY european LC driver that did trans-africa, trans-asia etc. at the big expedition car shows I NEVER heard of any carrying such stuff around.
The only ones that I know that carry have the car are the Land Rover drivers and they really also use it!
I chose the J7 as an expedition-travel car. We did so far only about 20% of offroading yeah, surely will increase now more the more south we drive. But still, it's our home, it's our
life-safer under circunstances. I hopefully won't be driving the hell out of it.
And if something fails, most parts you can get in many places... even Mexico that doesn't have a J7 you can order ANY part for my car except the 24V stuff, that they seem not too have...
but otherwise you get for example headgaskets for a 1HZ, head bolts, brake shoes, gaskets, filter, axles, what you want...
Takes 2-3 weeks, no extra cost for shipping. You can order it at any Toyota dealer.
Farther south it should get better I heard since they know the J7!
I guess everyone has his own opinion to this... I wouldn't change it so far... but ask me in 2-3 years again after my trip is done if I was wrong... ;)
 
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