STLCA 60 Series Club Thread (9 Viewers)

[Elbert]

OK....there must be some other FJ60's in the pile here....or this entire thread is going to have to be re-named to "Elbert's Problems"...

So...who here is a dual battery expert on gas engine or has learned some hard lessons?

What I have: (1) 5.7 GM engine from 1999 SUV / pickup (2) large CS144 ALT, which I think is 140amps or so (non-modified) (3) Dual batterys...twins, both are so-called crank batterys....800CCA, conventional type (4) better wires on the gronds, and ALT feed wire (5) the two batteries are connected by one large cable 2 gauge from my memory , on the pos terminal (6) grounds from the secondary battery and the primary battery.

no smart devices or controllers or solenoids / combiners etc.

recenlty I've had the secondary battery fail (for no known reasons) and it could be simply the battery is over, the other day I left the battery charger on the truck for 2 solid days, neither battery would charge over around 11.65 or so and I noticed the secondary battery was getting hot. Which I believe was due to the secondary battery being failed at that point. No observed poor connections or wire failures etc.

observations or my view:
ive created essentially one large battery, the alt gauge shows the battery charging etc, but I have no real way to guage or monitor the secondary battery, because of the full time hot wire that marries the two batteries together.
I can't really monitor the secondary battery by itself...what I see is the collective voltage.
in the past I've checked the alt voltage at both batteries and very minor drop on secondary battery , but its in the neighborhood north of 14 volts.

I'm thinking what I might entertain moving forward before I buy new batteries. Loads on the primary battery is the winch and some minor / misc things, loads on the secondary battery. Radio gear, stero amp, cooler/freezer, air compressor, aftermarket lights. With the idea I don't want to buy batteries every 2 years.

COA 1 : Do nothing and replace batteries as they are now (two crank batteries) No way to monitor really what secondary battery is doing etc.
COA 2: look at something like the Blue Sea smart battery combiner / smart soloniiod that combines batterys, and consider a AGM secondary battery or deep cycle battery for the secondary, or keep the same batteries.
COA 3: Look at something like REDARC or other "smart box" or I think they are calling these things DC to DC charger or so called smart box.

ML-ACR Automatic Charging Relay with Manual Control - 12V DC 500A - Blue Sea Systems

500 Amp magnetic latching (bi-stable) relay automatically combines batteries during charging and isolates batteries when discharging and when starting engine.

www.bluesea.com

I have a refrigerator , but I've not really used it or set it up all the way etc, same with air compressor, so I dont' want to compound my iissues when get that stuff "wired".

I assume I may be killing the secondary battery due to loads but that just an assumption.....its not killing the primary battery and my problem right now may just be a battery failure. @ around $200 or more EACH....buying batteries are not fun.

Who has been down this road before and what have you learned? I've read any number of threads about crank battery for primary and deep cycle battery for secondary, and or some additional battery in the back to power refrigerator. I'm not a big camper but I would want the function of the refrigerator , but unlikely I would have the truck not running for more than a day or so, with teh refrigerator powered.

 

[Elbert]

well after some mental mind games I'm back to a single battery and then its time to come up with something reasonable on dealing with the wires that were connected to the secondary battery. I installed the crank battery back in the truck this afternoon and no fires were observed or meltdowns...so I'm at least half@$$ qualified.... now what I do with the other set of wires that went to the secondary battery...that may or may not be great work.. I at least have the opportunity to excel as "they" say

 

[Elbert]

I got on a motivation kick and decided I need to take a bath in P/S fluid. So I also thought I might install this red-head 80 series gear I've had for a while thats been hiding on the shop floor for some time. So thankfully I used my favorite store (amazon) and bought one of those large syringe looking fluid extractor things...and it really did work, I got about 3 1/2 (whatever's) of fluid out of my remote reservoir, but even then it was not enough and became a fluid festivus party for all and the all was me. One of the OTC pullers I bought in the past worked perfect in removing the pitman arm, I left the other end of the pitman arm connected to the steering linkage. So far I've removed the leaking 60 series gear, and I took off the heat shield on the steering linkage and removed the wheel wheel mud shield, and tired to clean up the mess that is (the driver side frame rail area where this stuff is) Surprised in that nothing broke or rounded off. So I get it clean as I think I will spend any time further doing. I was ready to swap over the p/s adapter hose fittings I had...but was not sure if they would work from the series box, and where I found out no, they do not work. I'm going to post here in this thread a link to a question I posed in the main forum on the 80 thread , where I might find some clarity on the correct fittings. So in summary right now, project is about half way done. Truck front end is up on jack stands with the front tires off, access not too bad, coming in from the wheel well.

The red head steering gear I hope will be the last gear I buy...I think I've had 2-3 now...of 60 gears where the "seals were replaced but thats not turned out well, which had nothign to do with red-head, but other stuff (used gears that were rebult so to speak by others. So I guess we will see. I've been looking around on the 80 forum to decipher what fittings to use and hopefully I can get a good line on that and get some stuff ordered this afternoon some time. And then maybe wrap this up by next weekend. I'll post up some pics in a few min, and I'll post up a link that that 80 thread....which might help someone else along the same trail/project path.

info on related fittings in thread.... What type of hydraulic fitting is on the high pressure (input) side of the steering box? - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/what-type-of-hydraulic-fitting-is-on-the-high-pressure-input-side-of-the-steering-box.1128123/

 

[Elbert]

related pics from above. I cleaned up the frame and surrounding area a little bit

 

[Elbert]

guess I'll run the steering gear / pitman arm nut that came with the "new" gear and I'll also re-use the 4 bolts/nuts that hold the gear to the frame.

 

[cruisermatt]

what do you mean your hose fittings don't work? They are the same across all the steering boxes, 60/70/80. M16x1.5 feed, M17x1.5 return

 

[Elbert]

what do you mean your hose fittings don't work? They are the same across all the steering boxes, 60/70/80. M16x1.5 feed, M17x1.5 return

one of the fittings is really tight in the bore on the 80 gear, that might be an issue with threads in the 80 gear (high pressure side), which might need a thread chaser to clean up. I've not noticed any thread issues with the fittings I've removed, I'll check that later also.

on the low pressure side the fitting is simple too small and wallows around in the bore of the gear. Yea I think its dumb too, and I can't explain it. I'm going to go back to shop in a day or two and check it again...but that was my experience. and I tried trading the fittings to the other side etc...there are only two choices ...one fitting or the other fitting...I did not have anything else in the mix. I simply took out the old fittings from the 60 gear and tried to install them in the same orientation etc on 80 gear. Not too hard of a job to track . As noted in related thread ...if I'm the dumb@$$ then I'll post up, but rather hard for me to try two fittings and only have two choices and have one where the fitting is obviously too loose in the bore, its what I observed.

 

[Elbert]

new PSC fittings arrived this afternoon and they work in the 80 gear. I installed the fittings this afternoon and will try and re-install the assembly Friday, hoping no leaks or surprises. The heat shield around the steering shaft is layered in crap...so I'll try and get it a bit cleaner that it was and get the bottom of the shield installed first, and likely leave the top part off or loose until I get the gear fully mounted and everything mated up...space is tight there...to some degree. I hope the 80 gear does a good job and lasts some time....tired of screwing with PS stuff. That single bolt that holds the bottom of the heat shield to the frame ....might learn a few new words...trying get that bolt started. 16 * 1.5mm & 17 *1.5mm (are the rough sizes of the hose adapter fittings) as noted above I had some issues with the fittings I removed from the 60 gear and trying to use them in the 80 gear. I don't have any magic answers ....stuff is going in the garbage.

For someone local and you might need a 60 steering gear I have two or three, but I'm not going to save them much longer...as I'm now in the biz of using an 80 series steering gear. I just end up putting the things in a plastic tote but after a while that just becomes a "boat anchor". If anyone in the TN club MS club...or local to me wants a spare 60 steering gear...(for a core or to "re-seal" or whatever....then msg me. At times I'm away from the forum...if you want..you can text me..make sure to give me your name and a logical note so I knwo who you are..(given all the nicknames here) 256-338-four-six-zero-nine. The ones I have leaked...I think the last 60 gear I bought was supposed to be good / rebuilt etc.....and had no core or whatever ( I bought it direct) anyway I"m done on that. you can pick from the pile of whatever I have, if you want to drive over or maybe I can drop it off or something (no charge on the parts) but I can't tell you whats good or whats damaged...the ones I have certainly do leak, you roll the dice. the ones I have except for the current one I just removed (were "re-sealed" by a shop in TX). I've simply not had much luck with that... the ones I have ...have no obvious mechanical external damage , were prone to leaks etc was my problem. Anyway...if you want something on the steering gear let me know....will not be long before Ill be tired of looking at them...regardless. Things are kind of slimy and sitting in a plastic tote. I know off hand without lookig I have two, maybe three. I will not sit on these very much longer...FYI I"m willing to be reasonable to hold something if you are committed to dropping by, I'm in Cullman AL if that matters.

 

[Elbert]

I'll post pics later back to here. Got the new Red Top steering gear installed (new to me , rebuilt 80 series gear) One thing is that the 80 series gear is a bit longer going back towards the cab...right in the area roughly where the splined shaft is....anyway, it appears I'm going to need to cut the top part of he heat-shield back about 2 inches or so....to clear the steering gear. I got it mostly installed this afternoon and got the engine running and everything mounted/connected. So far no leaks....its seems so far to take about 1 and 1/2 qt of ps fluid. No leaks so far and no crazy noises....its got some air in the system. I've left it run with the front tires off on jack stands and have done numerous back and forth turns trying to bleed air out. If it dries up tomorrow I'll probably drive it around some. My truck may be different that others, its got a 5.7 swap and I'm running some an style p/s steering hose adapter fittings and custom p/s hose. So I can't tell you how/if a stock or other "normal" p/s hose will work or not. The space is tight and it seems the 80 gear takes up all the space that could be used or work. The fittings should work but the hose might not be long enough etc. The 80 gear appears larger in general size. So far good move...I'll drive it around this weekend if the weather clears up and try and rig up that heat shield as best as I can. and if all good I'll put those rubber splash shields back in.

 

[Elbert]

I used some of the noted thread sealant on the fittings (threads inside the gear, and also a bit on the threads where the p/s hose mates with the gear. I used a little traditional blue loctite on the frame mounting bolts. I cleaned up the frame bolts for their 4 decade bath , I use a wire wheel on all the bolts to get some of the garbage off the threads. I had to chop up the heat shield a bit (so the top cover would clear and mount back like it supposed to. The 80 gear is larger than the 60 to some degree. Torque values out the 60 manual = 130 for the pitman arm nut , 90 for the frame bolts. Steering gear came with new nut and lock washer I used those. You might run into problems with hose fitment depending on how tight your hoses are if running a 60 series box. Its a little fun to get the steering wheel shaft mated with the steering box at the same time trying to balance the box and do whatever else at the same time. A 4 * 4 block of wood helps. I took both front tires off and put the truck up a little higher on jack stands. Nothing broke or blew up...which was surprising. I drove it around a bit today and no leaks and no strange noises (appears all things good). You have to modify the heat-shield due to the size of the 80 series box. If this steering box is dependable and does not leak for a few years...I'll call it a win. Its a bit of a slimy mess around the gear from previous boxes leaking over time, I cleaned it up a bit but I might try and do a better job....the fluid attacts sand / mud etc and then it kind of sticks to to the metal and you then get a layered effect of &^%* in top of #&^%. What I need is some type of steam cleaner that does not cost $5k.

 

[cruisermatt]

you shouldn't use thread sealant on those. They are flare fittings. The flare is what does the seal.

 

[Elbert]

you shouldn't use thread sealant on those. They are flare fittings. The flare is what does the seal.

the sealant is on the threads of the fitting, not on the flare and its a very small amount. I follow how the fittings work, its not really to seal, its more rather to keep the fitting from moving around once tight and the hose fitting from moving around once tight. Both on the threads where the fitting threads down into the gear and the fitting of the hose where that tightens down on the top part of the fitting. The amount i used might be on the order of a "drop" per each threaded area or less. Noted sealant works very well for the purpose I'm using it for.