Still hunting... now looking for an LX!

[bloc]

But it is on steroids. You're only understanding the tip of the iceberg. I'll agree that articulation is the same. There are other measures, despite it being able to RTI the same on 20s.

You and I are going to have to disagree on what "on steroids x10" means, but I will point out that you don't actually know what I understand with regard to Toyota's AHC. I spent a lot of time studying this stuff and drove a number of LXs before spending the extra money on a LC.

The one thing I haven't figured out yet is exactly how toyota changes damping of a given corner without impacting ride height at the same time with a single hydraulic circuit to each corner.

You are making it sound as though these things handle like sports cars, avoid accidents for us, and are as capable as rock crawlers off-road.. in short, that AHC is a revolutionary thing for these vehicles. Or at least that's how I interpret KDSS (which is awesome) on steroids x10. I will admit that AVS (the part of AHC that provides the benefits you espouse) has the potential to be revolutionary, but the consumer-level implementation of it so far due to things like cost/complexity/reliability concerns means that while yes, you will notice a difference over a Landcruiser with KDSS, it isn't a revolution in vehicle dynamics.

BTW enough LX owners express frustration on the vehicle reverting to normal ride height that I'm keeping it in the disadvantage bracket. I know that I would definitely be annoyed by it.

AND.. you CAN'T remove AHC if you want to (so far).

IMO the main reason someone would delete: larger/remote reservoir shocks that are much harder to overheat and therefore provide more consistent damping in hard use.
Others: desire to go tundra/long-arm in the front (very tempting to me), more total suspension travel (even without tundra arms), comp/reb tuning, desire to simplify the suspension (KDSS is arguably complex in its own right but at least has much less electronics and doesn't have a pump to fail), wanting to eliminate some hypothetical future common failure point.

To some people those benefits outweigh those of the stock LX570 AHC, and the possibility of wanting them in the future eliminates a LX from their vehicle choices.

The ground level facts of this part of a LC/LX debate (in the context of a site dedicated to maintaining and modifying Toyotas for off-road travel) will change when someone comes up with a good delete solution. At that point someone can buy an LX more cheaply than a Landcruiser, drive/wheel it while enjoying the benefits of AHC/AVS, and IF they ever want to go further than the limitations of the stock suspension will allow, they remove it and put whatever they want on there.

I'm done with this "debate" as we aren't going to change the viewpoints of each other and are likely annoying everyone else.. but I would be interested if you have an answer to the damping/height/single hydraulic circuit question above.

 

[TeCKis300]

There's no debate and you don't have to agree. We can talk about specifics of the system and you're allowed to make up your own mind.

It'll help to have a diagram to talk about aspects of the system:

You can see that AHC is exceedingly complex. They don't dream this stuff up for the sake of complexity, but for measurable objective performance. It's way beyond a system that can be produced in the aftermarket which is why I say it's a suspension system on steroids. What this doesn't even show is the software and control logic that dynamically runs this system.

One-way to think about AHC is that it's a computer controlled remote reservoir pressure and damping system. The magic doesn't happen in the shock body. That part is a simple hydraulic ram.

The fact that it's a remote based system, lends it heat sinking and dissipating qualities, probably more than most aftermarket remote-res systems. It has relatively huge fluid volumes. With lots of surface area. The system is pressurized as it also supports some portion of the weight of the vehicle. And note the Relief Gas Chambers. So it has the characteristics and mechanisms to minimize fluid aeration issues that causes damping to degrade in extended washboard use. Not saying it can't degrade, but it has the right stuff for it. There's software logic too to respond to these situations, to minimize thumping and maintain posture. BTW, I've chased a Raptor in the dessert washes for hours. I didn't note any fade, and I'm particular about suspension performance coming from the road coarse world.

In regards to your question. Damping and height are handled by different components. Height via the Pump, Height Control Valve, and accumulators that controls fluid volume. Damping via the Damping Force Controller, Center Suspension Control cylinder Sub-assembly, and Gas Chambers. Many of these components have heat sink fins on them to ensure they are performant under extended load.

I get if you're looking for a more specialized system. Perhaps to do more aggressive Baja running and jumping that no stock systems is really suited for (save perhaps the Raptor). As you might know, that specialization has trade offs for just about everything else. Especially in respect to the AHC/AVS (an intertwined system to your point), that has shown to be more than competent in just about everything else.

 

[tbisaacs]

Chasing a raptor sounds amazing!

 

[SWUtah]

There's no debate and you don't have to agree. We can talk about specifics of the system and you're allowed to make up your own mind.

It'll help to have a diagram to talk about aspects of the system:
View attachment 1694421

You can see that AHC is exceedingly complex. They don't dream this stuff up for the sake of complexity, but for measurable objective performance. It's way beyond a system that can be produced in the aftermarket which is why I say it's a suspension system on steroids. What this doesn't even show is the software and control logic that dynamically runs this system.

One-way to think about AHC is that it's a computer controlled remote reservoir pressure and damping system. The magic doesn't happen in the shock body. That part is a simple hydraulic ram.

The fact that it's a remote based system, lends it heat sinking and dissipating qualities, probably more than most aftermarket remote-res systems. It has relatively huge fluid volumes. With lots of surface area. The system is pressurized as it also supports some portion of the weight of the vehicle. And note the Relief Gas Chambers. So it has the characteristics and mechanisms to minimize fluid aeration issues that causes damping to degrade in extended washboard use. Not saying it can't degrade, but it has the right stuff for it. There's software logic too to respond to these situations, to minimize thumping and maintain posture. BTW, I've chased a Raptor in the dessert washes for hours. I didn't note any fade, and I'm particular about suspension performance coming from the road coarse world.

In regards to your question. Damping and height are handled by different components. Height via the Pump, Height Control Valve, and accumulators that controls fluid volume. Damping via the Damping Force Controller, Center Suspension Control cylinder Sub-assembly, and Gas Chambers. Many of these components have heat sink fins on them to ensure they are performant under extended load.

I get if you're looking for a more specialized system. Perhaps to do more aggressive Baja running and jumping that no stock systems is really suited for (save perhaps the Raptor). As you might know, that specialization has trade offs for just about everything else. Especially in respect to the AHC/AVS (an intertwined system to your point), that has shown to be more than competent in just about everything else.

This system was a members choice for his trans continental journey across Africa which he made without any problems to his AHC/AVS system. Only reason I could see going after market would be for dedicated rock crawling and if that’s your choice you picked the wrong vehicle. A lot of work you read on this site is people trying to make Mules out of Horses.