Steering slop FJ40 with PS

[gcwill2011]

Hi Folks, I’ve got a problem with my steering - significant slop and all over the road when driving. Steering shaft and joints seem solid. Slop seems to be in the joint where the tie rod meets the arm on the PS box. See video. Let me know what you guys think. No steering stabilizer installed.

Also,please let me know what PS box I have. I think it’s a Saginaw but not sure or of the model. TIA.

 

[charliemeyer007]

I'd start with the wheel bearing and work inward making sure everything is good. Tires and alignment have a big effect on steering.

I see two pic's, no vid's in your post. When asking for help year, model, market gets better answers. You have a better shot at reading the part/casting numbers than me - so post them

 

[Toyoland66]

Post some more photos of that mount.

A couple thoughts - your mount has multiple layers of plate and looks like just one bolt on top holding the structure of the mount to the frame which isn’t ideal. It looks like the front bolt has a lot of leverage on the bolt holding the plate to the inner plate which then has leverage on the middle bolt holding it to the frame. Additionally the box is pretty far forward on the frame horn which puts more leverage on the frame to flex and the frame itself isn’t plated. Typically with a Saginaw conversion you plate the inside of both frame horns to stiffen them up. The angle on the drag link also isn’t ideal it would be better if it were more parallel with the tie rod.

Check out the 4x4 labs mount for an example.

 

[gcwill2011]

I'd start with the wheel bearing and work inward making sure everything is good. Tires and alignment have a big effect on steering.

I see two pic's, no vid's in your post. When asking for help year, model, market gets better answers. You have a better shot at reading the part/casting numbers than me - so post them

I'd start with the wheel bearing and work inward making sure everything is good. Tires and alignment have a big effect on steering.

I see two pic's, no vid's in your post. When asking for help year, model, market gets better answers. You have a better shot at reading the part/casting numbers than me - so post them

Yeah. For some reason I’m not able to access the videos to post them. Only the pics. Working on getting them in the post.

 

[3_puppies]

the front crossmmember could use some attention also.
significant strength is lost unless it is boxed

hard to see in the pic, but wondering if they used the Toyota end in the steering arm? is the movement in the joint or the taper?
is there a lift?

how long have you owned the rig?

X2 on the angle of the rod not being ideal

 

[gcwill2011]

I'd start with the wheel bearing and work inward making sure everything is good. Tires and alignment have a big effect on steering.

I see two pic's, no vid's in your post. When asking for help year, model, market gets better answers. You have a better shot at reading the part/casting numbers than me - so post them

Hi Charlie, just uploaded the video link. When the turn the shaft the lower arm seems to react well but the tie rod does not move. I think the joint is shot. Let me know what you think.

 

[gcwill2011]

the front crossmmember could use some attention also.
significant strength is lost unless it is boxed

hard to see in the pic, but wondering if they used the Toyota end in the steering arm? is the movement in the joint or the taper?
is there a lift?

how long have you owned the rig?

X2 on the angle of the rod not being ideal

Owned it about a yr. Only drove it outside my neighborhood this week and noticed it. Who ever installed it did kind of a hack job but not looking to get into a big repair if I don’t have to right now. Lots of other stuff I’m working on.

 

[gcwill2011]

Owned it about a yr. Only drove it outside my neighborhood this week and noticed it. Who ever installed it did kind of a hack job but not looking to get into a big repair if I don’t have to right now. Lots of other stuff I’m working on.

Also, I just uploaded a video

 

[gcwill2011]

the front crossmmember could use some attention also.
significant strength is lost unless it is boxed

hard to see in the pic, but wondering if they used the Toyota end in the steering arm? is the movement in the joint or the taper?
is there a lift?

how long have you owned the rig?

X2 on the angle of the rod not being ideal

Yes, there is a 2.5” lift (I think) at least 2”

 

[B y r o n]

I'd look at the bearings/bushings in the shaft that the pitman arm connects to. In the video the pitman arm tweaks and it should not do this, it should simply move left or right without any tweaking.

 

[sogncab]

It's a Saginaw.

From the video it looks like the pitman arm is twisting?

 

[gcwill2011]

the front crossmmember could use some attention also.
significant strength is lost unless it is boxed

hard to see in the pic, but wondering if they used the Toyota end in the steering arm? is the movement in the joint or the taper?
is there a lift?

how long have you owned the rig?

X2 on the angle of the rod not being ideal

Posted some additional pics…let me know what else you see. Front crossmember definitely needs to be repaired/replaced. Worse than I thought.

 

[3_puppies]

Also, I just uploaded a video

From the video it looks like the pitman arm is twisting?

@gcwill2011 can you post a video from underneath similar to the video from above?

Yes it looks like the steering arm is moving in a way it shouldn't be, the arm should only rotate on an axis, any other movement is BAD.

seems to me you need a major rework/redesign of the system you currently have on your rig.
steering and brakes are the 2 major systems on your rig that should be in top condition.

 

[Toyoland66]

Hard to tell from the video but I doubt the pitman arm is twisting I think the rod end is moving inside the pitman arm.

Take that rod end out of the pitman and take some measurements of the taper of the id of the pitman arm.

These would typically have a 2233/2234 or 2026/2027 rod end.

TRE, Standard, ES2234

TRE, Standard, TK234 This is the Standard GM 1 Ton Tie Rod End. They are time tested and work every time! The Taper is .749"-.748", if you are replacing a smaller TRE you will want to ream the taper to .75". Driver Side = Right Hand Thread Passenger Side = Left Hand Thread Includes Jam Nut Tube...

www.ruffstuffspecialties.com

TRE, High Angle Drag Link, ES2026R

High Angle Drag Link Rod End This is a GM 1 Ton Tie Rod End made specifically for use as a Draglink. The Draglink TRE will travel farther than a Standard TRE. The Draglink TRE has a slightly larger taper than a Standard TRE, .795" vs .749" so the taper must be deeper for the Draglink. Note...

www.ruffstuffspecialties.com

I’m guessing your arm has a deeper taper than the tre and is bottoming out before seating which is why the boot is so compressed. It also isn’t normal to have that large washer below the tre nut.

Depending on how much that’s been driven like that the hole might be wallowed out. Regardless you shouldn’t drive it until that’s fixed.

 

[gcwill2011]

Hard to tell from the video but I doubt the pitman arm is twisting I think the rod end is moving inside the pitman arm.

Take that rod end out of the pitman and take some measurements of the taper of the id of the pitman arm.

These would typically have a 2233/2234 or 2026/2027 rod end.

TRE, Standard, ES2234

TRE, Standard, TK234 This is the Standard GM 1 Ton Tie Rod End. They are time tested and work every time! The Taper is .749"-.748", if you are replacing a smaller TRE you will want to ream the taper to .75". Driver Side = Right Hand Thread Passenger Side = Left Hand Thread Includes Jam Nut Tube...

www.ruffstuffspecialties.com

TRE, High Angle Drag Link, ES2026R

High Angle Drag Link Rod End This is a GM 1 Ton Tie Rod End made specifically for use as a Draglink. The Draglink TRE will travel farther than a Standard TRE. The Draglink TRE has a slightly larger taper than a Standard TRE, .795" vs .749" so the taper must be deeper for the Draglink. Note...

www.ruffstuffspecialties.com

I’m guessing your arm has a deeper taper than the tre and is bottoming out before seating which is why the boot is so compressed. It also isn’t normal to have that large washer below the tre nut.

Depending on how much that’s been driven like that the hole might be wallowed out. Regardless you shouldn’t drive it until that’s fixed.

Thank you. This is helpful and what I was thinking (hoping for). Assuming it’s this, what’s the fix. Buy a new tee or new pitman arm or both with matching tapers? Any recommendations on where to get these?

 

[Toyoland66]

Pitman Arms and Tapering

We offer a wide variety of pitman arms for a wide variety of applications including Toyota IFS truck and 4Runner, Landcruiser 60, 70, 80, GM and Scout Saginaw. We can taper your existing pitman arm. If you purchase our steering kit we will taper your existing pitman arm as part of the kit price...

4x4labs.myshopify.com

 

[pb4ugo]

Looking at pics and video it appears your smaller stk tapered tre is wobbling in the larger taper gm pitman arm. There are several things you can do. You can have a pitman custom tapered like 4x4 labs. You can probably buy or make a drag link with fj40 threads for the pass side and gm tre threads at the pitman arm. You can press a starter bushing into gm pitman arm to take up the slack. I think cruiser outfitters sells a shim too, but I think its made for fj60 steering arms. The starter bushing # SB0, a crossover # is x4378. I purchased a few of them just in case I boogered 1 up.

 

[Engineer8000]

Not to minimize the obvious safety concerns. I Can't tell for sure, but it looks like your shackles are longer than stock? That throws off the caster and will make your truck wander and be twitchy even with good links. I put 6-degree caster shims in the front of mine and that fixed it. There is a spec for the caster, I don't recall what it is.

 

[sogncab]

Mine has a generic jeep end. The Toyota draglink is shortened and tapped for the threads of the jeep end.