steering - repair, improvements, what I learned (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter lovetoski
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FAQ,i think this a really good write up.it covers a lot of things related to steering issue.
john
FAQ,i think this a really good write up.it covers a lot of things related to steering issue.
john
rchalmers3
I speak Toyota
My beef with pickle forks are that they can cut the cover boot on a joint that may be intended for re-use. So I have a couple of them, and use them occasionally, but I don't use them on joints I wanna re-use. Using a screw press like the one pictured keeps the hammer swinging to a minimum and the pressures localized. My .02
Rick
Rick
Thanks,
I have that Clunking noise when steering,
I need to grease again anyway, mine as well put some between the leaves.
I have that Clunking noise when steering,
I need to grease again anyway, mine as well put some between the leaves.
I have done everything you have suggested on the suspension and steering on my fj62. I have 315k on it. it has lots of play and i took it to a shop they adjusted the steer box at max. Do you think if i still have lots of play it is time to rebuild the steering box?
Tapage
Club 4X4 Panamá
or maybe buy another one .. just coz if it's already adjusted to the max the wear on the internals are just to much ..
The rebuild that I know onli replace, seals and o-rings
- Thread starter
- #47
I thought I would update this a bit, my truck has evolved, and I've learned a few things in the process...
I'm now on 35x12.50/15's, and the truck is (was) all over the road. After a bunch of things, it's now running really straight. Here's what I've done...
I replaced my drag-links/TRE's last summer (5,000 miles ago) and adjusted the drag-links to be tight. When I checked them recently there was a lot of slop in them. Lesson learned I believe - 35's put a lot more stress on steering components, so check them often.
While I'm on the topic of drag-links, I'm now running them as tight as possible. I screw the adjuster all the way down, then back it off to the closest cotter pin hole. It might wear quicker this way, but since I'm checking it more often, I'm not worried.
Wheel and knuckle bearings are tight - no slop.
u-joints in the steering shaft are tight (they are original, but they are easy to check visually and see if there is any play).
The only play in the entire link from hand to road is the steering box. There is a factory spec for the amount of play (3/4" of movement at the steering wheel I think). I am within the factory spec.
I increased the tire pressure from 28 to 32. My thinking being that the slighter stiffer tire would not wander as much.
Last item was to play with the amount of toe-in. I learned from a local cruiser shop (Torfab) that 2 degrees on 35's can make sense. To measure toe, I used the method in post #56 in this thread (also in the FAQ)
https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/76961-do-your-own-alignment.html
A few minutes with an on-line angle calculator gave me the numberical values I needed to be at 2 degrees (with a 4 foot long piece of angle, I needed 1.69" narrower in front than rear). After a test drive or two, I settled on ~1.4" difference as what felt optimum on my truck.
I can't say that any of the above were big in and of themselves, but all together the effect is really noticable. The truck is now easy to drive on the freeway, where before it took work to keep it where it should be.
If I were to do one more thing...it would be to go to a 17" wheel, I would guess that will help especially on winding country roads.
HTH
I'm now on 35x12.50/15's, and the truck is (was) all over the road. After a bunch of things, it's now running really straight. Here's what I've done...
I replaced my drag-links/TRE's last summer (5,000 miles ago) and adjusted the drag-links to be tight. When I checked them recently there was a lot of slop in them. Lesson learned I believe - 35's put a lot more stress on steering components, so check them often.
While I'm on the topic of drag-links, I'm now running them as tight as possible. I screw the adjuster all the way down, then back it off to the closest cotter pin hole. It might wear quicker this way, but since I'm checking it more often, I'm not worried.
Wheel and knuckle bearings are tight - no slop.
u-joints in the steering shaft are tight (they are original, but they are easy to check visually and see if there is any play).
The only play in the entire link from hand to road is the steering box. There is a factory spec for the amount of play (3/4" of movement at the steering wheel I think). I am within the factory spec.
I increased the tire pressure from 28 to 32. My thinking being that the slighter stiffer tire would not wander as much.
Last item was to play with the amount of toe-in. I learned from a local cruiser shop (Torfab) that 2 degrees on 35's can make sense. To measure toe, I used the method in post #56 in this thread (also in the FAQ)
https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/76961-do-your-own-alignment.html
A few minutes with an on-line angle calculator gave me the numberical values I needed to be at 2 degrees (with a 4 foot long piece of angle, I needed 1.69" narrower in front than rear). After a test drive or two, I settled on ~1.4" difference as what felt optimum on my truck.
I can't say that any of the above were big in and of themselves, but all together the effect is really noticable. The truck is now easy to drive on the freeway, where before it took work to keep it where it should be.
If I were to do one more thing...it would be to go to a 17" wheel, I would guess that will help especially on winding country roads.
HTH
gregnash
Anal Retentive Analyst
So basically you replaced all your steering components and things got better (even better with the professional alignment).
I am planning to "refresh" my suspension in the next month or so and since I need to rebuild my knuckles and calipers I was looking at doing a few other things. Looks like I may be adding TREs and Drag Links to the list as well since I will be in there. My truck tracks pretty good as is but has a definite wobble at speed when turning. That could be a couple things and tested the TREs and they seemed ok so I am thinking it is more wheel balance issue and/or steering stabilizer. But figure that the TREs might as well be replaced while I can to ensure everything is good to go.
I am planning to "refresh" my suspension in the next month or so and since I need to rebuild my knuckles and calipers I was looking at doing a few other things. Looks like I may be adding TREs and Drag Links to the list as well since I will be in there. My truck tracks pretty good as is but has a definite wobble at speed when turning. That could be a couple things and tested the TREs and they seemed ok so I am thinking it is more wheel balance issue and/or steering stabilizer. But figure that the TREs might as well be replaced while I can to ensure everything is good to go.
- Thread starter
- #49
9 years ago, when I first started this thread, I did get better results by having a pro do my alignment. Now I am more careful, know a little more about what I am doing, and have a good/easy process to do alignment. I haven't had a pro do it for a couple of years. Not sure anyway that I could afford to have them do a 0.25 degree adjustment.
I do have wheel balance issues...but these are not uncommon on large tires that get wheeled...weights get thrown off, and it's a lot of mass to balance. Not sure the size you have. I had pretty good results when I had 33's. 35's seem to be much more difficult to keep balanced.
The most recent learning was that drag-links wear faster with larger tires, and that more toe-in is required with larger tires.
And yes, it's essential that everything is in tip-top shape.
Off Duty
SILVER Star
Awesome!
Just saw this but wanted to say thank you for the post!
OD
Just saw this but wanted to say thank you for the post!
OD
It seems that many shops don't tighten the drag link ends - they don't know what they are. An easy and cheap fix for 60-series. I run them quite a bit tighter than spec, after cleaning them out and fully greasing them. Tightening those is usually the single biggest 'steering slop fix', followed by slightly tightening the steering box.
- Thread starter
- #58
Thought I would do an update. My truck has evolved, as has my perspective on what works and doesn't work. As we all know, things get heavier with age...LOL...so I now have two extra leaves in both my front and rear springpacks. I added spacers in between the front leaves to reduce sticktion (noticable improvement). But still, with everything noted above on this thread being addressed, my truck drove worse on 35's than on 33's. Science is about testing a hypothesis and evaluating the outcome right? I live the science based approach to decision making. I was thinking that the larger sidewall contributed to the sloppy steering. That would suggest going to 16 or 17" rims + new tires. Ok, so new stuff is always appealing, but it costs $$$. Instead I futzed with tire pressure - it's free afterall. (Yes, I am still scheming about how to move to 17" rims.) There is the chalk test for proper tire pressure. There's also a kind of no brainer fuzzy math about OEM tire size/pressure vs larger size. That is, larger size should need less pressure than smaller (pounds per sq inch, etc.). Anyway...I have played around for months with tire pressure....and one thing is abundantly clear from my "testing" ...35X12.50/15's drive straighter down the road at higher pressure than lower pressure. They are spec'd at 35 psi max, and that's now where I run them. Both front and rear. Yes, bumps are somewhat more severe...aka harsh. But, hey, it's a truck. It also steers way better at this pressure. 28 psi is more comfortable (is a 60 series ever comfortable?) but the wandering on the highway is too fatiguing. It requires constant vigilance. Will my tires wear faster at 35 than at a lower pressure...I'd guess yes, the center will wear faster...but frankly I don't care. The improvement in steering and reduced driver attention/fatigue is worth the cost in tire wear. And in case you are tempted to argue that the cost in tire wear is more important...it's a brick that has terrible fuel mileage, and the difference between 30K per set of tires and 40K per set is small compared to the overall cost of ownership. At $3 per gallon and 13mpg, 10K miles is $2,300 in fuel. If the cost per mile of ownership on my 60 was a big deal for me, then I'd ride a bike. Which, actually I do most of the time. A 60 series LC is not an efficient means of transportation in a modern urban environment. Anyway, net/net, my point is that 35/15's drive worse than 33/15's, but that higher tire pressure can help to improve straight-line steering, even though at a cost of harshness - which I personally find to be a beneficial tradeoff.
Is there a way to "watch" a thread like this one without posting on it to make it easier to find in the future?
LAMBCRUSHER
SILVER Star
