steel wheels

[landandsea]

The wheel manufacturer I talked to referred to 108mm as the standard center bore. He must have been referring, as you say, to aftermarket standard center bore. I took it too literally.

Thanks for setting that straight...

Ed

 

[landtank]

The balancing machines that I've used in a past life as a tire jockey used a set of different cone shaped spacers to allow rims with different center bores to mount to the spindle centered to the bore. The use of this adapter is strickly to mount the tire so it is centered to the lugs.

BTW: my wifes factory steel rims for the 4Runner is hub centric so possibly the LC steels are the same.

 

[landandsea]

A good lesson learned here - always ask the tire shop if they have the proper adapter before we let them balance our tires.

That's worth a lot.

Thanks
Ed

 

[Riley]

[quote author=landtank link=board=2;threadid=1801;start=msg12295#msg12295 date=1055152810]
That's why you need that adapter for the balancing machines to properly balance them. Traditional balancing doesn't give the best results and can not allow you to balance larger tires. I found this out the hard way and only the dealer has this adapter in my area.
[/quote]

Ok this balancing thingy is interesting. I've found a good off-road tire place that has the best price in my area for MTRs. The deal I've got includes mounting and balancing. But I'm not sure if they are going to have this 6 fingered thingy. I think they mainly work on Heeps.

Can somebody give me a better name for this gadget? I need to call them and figure this out before I spend $$$$$$$. Is this an expensive adapter???

Seems crazy to buy tires at one place then pay someone like the dealer to balance them. It will add a lot of expense to the deal as the tire seller won't deduct much if he doesn't have to balance them. :

Go indo guys.. I would have never known about this.

 

[RavenTai]

for what it is worth my Lx450 wheels are tight on the hub, I have to rock them on or slowly drag them on (switching sides often of course) with the lug nuts to get them flush on the hub, that woudl lead me to beleave they are hub centric

 

[sleeoffroad]

[quote author=Rogue link=board=2;threadid=1801;start=msg12292#msg12292 date=1055130223]
Then I will just stick to my idea that it was another cost cut by Toyota on the 95+ Cruisers.
[/quote]

Don't think so since the lug nuts with the washer is more expensive (recall from memory. Also they have more thread engagement since the shank goes into the hole on the wheel.

 

[landtank]

[quote author=RavenTai link=board=2;threadid=1801;start=msg136918#msg136918 date=1081667582]
for what it is worth my Lx450 wheels are tight on the hub, I have to rock them on or slowly drag them on (switching sides often of course) with the lug nuts to get them flush on the hub, that woudl lead me to beleave they are hub centric
[/quote]

Actually I think that is the reason they are made to be lug centric. What you're seeing is an oxide build up that happens with alloys and binding the rim on the hub. You can't be certain that this will happen uniformally around the hub's surface so relying on the hub to center the wheel won't work. I've cleaned my wheels serveral times to make removal easier and they always end up seizing on after a season.

 

[hoser]

If anybody is having a difficult time balancing their wheels, find a shop that has a Hunter GSP9700 wheel balancer. You might have to ask them specifically to use it though--they sometimes only use it for special cases. It's a much better wheel balancer.

You can find a location here http://209.176.154.132/

 

[inacoma]

ok, so what is the consensus on if the alloys and/or Steelies are hubcentric or lugcentric? Read further and get my thoughts:

What happens if we put an aftermarket lugcentric wheel on a hubcentric hub (will the wheels studs be too week for this?)? Or are aftermarket only made in hubcentric? Either way I think our cruiser wheels (up to 97) are Hubcentric (read on). From what I gather we need a 106mm diameter hub center to fit "just right"...any bigger, and you won't be hubcentric anymore.

For those that are interested in the name of the 6 lug adaptor for the balancing machine it's called a Haweka adaptor. Here is what I have found out regarding this:

For our solid axle cruisers up to 97 shows an EXCEPTION for NOT using the Haweka flange:
http://toyota.spx.com/grpsrt.asp?g=22

...does this mean the LandCruiser wheel (up to 97) is hubcentric and not lugcentric (like my wife's tacoma)? Here's info on 4runner/tacoma wheels (which ARE lugcentric):
http://www.gadgetonline.com/vibration.htm#Balance / Haweka Adapter:

some more good infor from the above author, but on another post:
http://forums.vmag.com/suv4run0499/messages/3295.html

I'm beginning to think that our solid axle wheels are in fact HUBcentric...as the TSB (SU002-96) from Toyota to use the LUGCENTRIC Haweka adaptor came out for the "newer" tacoma/4runner wheels, not for our landcruiser (big assumption there, as I haven't looked up the TSB..anyone? anyone? bueller??)

ok, that's 'nuff about my blabbing...

...laterz

 

[DMX84]

Is the 100 series hub- centric?

 

[hoser]

Good reading, Inacoma. FWIW, my friend's shop uses the Haweka adapter on most Toyota wheels whether hubcentric or lugcentric. He said the Toyota wheels do not mate up well to the retaining cone. Something to do with interference with another part of the wheel near the hubcap. In the picture, the cones are on the bottom. I'll have to ask him what he did specifically with my wheels.

 

[Riley]

Regarding this wheel balancing attachment - Today I took my OEM steel wheels to the tire shop that I'm buying my MTRs from. One of the reasons I selected this shop was that they had this attachment.

when I dropped off the rims, I discussed this with the guy that actaully does the balancing. Basically we got into a dispute about if this was really required. Guy said "look it's just a rim and tire, nothing special, don't need it". I had to head off for work but will pick up this discuss tomorrow morning.

My question is - why do i need this?

what happens if they don't use it? Will the wheel be out of balance?

thanks.

 

[landtank]

The attachment is not vehicle specific it's rim specific. The steel factory rims for the 80 are balanced by the hubs while the alloy should be done with the adapter for lug centering. Balancing the alloys by the hub will not give consistant results.

 

[Rich]

[quote author=inacoma link=board=2;threadid=1801;start=msg138118#msg138118 date=1081837792]
...
I'm beginning to think that our solid axle wheels are in fact HUBcentric...as the TSB (SU002-96) from Toyota to use the LUGCENTRIC Haweka adaptor came out for the "newer" tacoma/4runner wheels, not for our landcruiser (big assumption there, as I haven't looked up the TSB..anyone? anyone? bueller??)
...
[/quote]


The tsb says that it applies to all models. Following is from the tsb: Use the centering cone and flange plate combination on all five and six lug steel and alloy Toyota wheels.

 

[lagwagon]

Any tire dealer I have been to refers to the 6 fingered thingy as "pin" balancing. All the shops around here (Sacramento area) have it. As for the conical lug nut, it has been used for years without problems and I have seen many 80s with rockcrawlers and no complaints. .02

 

[landandsea]

Before I started this thread last June(?), I called Toyota's customer service 800 number and asked if both alloys and steel wheels were hub centric. I was put on hold for quite a while. The customer service person said he checked with engineering to confirm that the alloys and steels are, in fact, hub centric. He said he called several departments before someone could give him a for-sure answer.

Ed

 

[landtank]

I have a feeling that we're all using the same terminology but have asigned different meanings to it. If your using an adapter to balance the wheel then your balancing it to the lug's position. Call it whatever you want but that's what your doing. I had alot of vibration problems with my alloys until the dealer used that adapter to balance them. On the flip side my local tire shop balanced my steels with the traditional cone centering the wheel on the hub with no vibration problems at all. One thing you'll need to watch for closely is that on the factory steels the small lip where the rim contacts the hub is half as thick as the rim itself and if one of them gets bent then that will throw off your balance if you don't use the adapter.

 

[Riley]

It sounds to me that because of the hub lip, it's hard to get the cone centered on the rim correctly and thus the balancing might be off a bit.

Question - how does the hub lip get bent? from the cone and balancing ?

or just from mounting incorrectly and hard use?

Perhaps I'm making too much of a big deal about this but because I'm moving to a set of MT tires and if I end up with vibrations (half expected) it will be hard to determine if it's the tire or a poor balancing job.

This morning I'll be nice and ask the tire shop what their issue is with using the pin method. I will also state that the Toy TSB specifies the pin adapter. I'll also be taking my torque wrench so that they don't impact them on.

We shall see what they say.

Riley

 

[landtank]

[quote author=Riley link=board=2;threadid=1801;start=msg148697#msg148697 date=1083419772]
Question - how does the hub lip get bent? from the cone and balancing ?
[/quote]

Who knows, I was warned by CDan that they can get bent. They are small little tabs that if bent would throw off the balancing.

I'm sure you're going to give these guys a good laugh after you leave. I'd leave the torque wrench at home.

 

[Riley]

Thanks Rick. I'll leave the wrench in the tool box in the truck.

Do you think it would be too picky to ask them to torque them instead of over tightening them with the impact?

Or just lossen/torque them when I get home?