Starting the long fixit list on Kaylee; from neglected to spoiled (2 Viewers)

[TLC4K2]

Hey everyone. Now that the "wow, we have a new toy" phase is wearing off, we've done some assessment of Kaylee's fixit list, and the list will keep us busy awhile. Near the top of the list are hard hot starts, and dieseling at shut-down.

Cold starts are easy; she fires up after only a few turns and runs strong right off the batt. Drive awhile and park, then try to start her again, and it takes about 30 seconds of cranking for the engine to finally take. Not an emergency, and thankfully not the 1-2 hours more typical of vapor lock, but definitely annoying. She also diesels at shut-down. The Haynes troubleshooting list doesn't seem to overlap on those two problems, but I tossed that in just in case that might help eliminate or strengthen a suspected cause of the hard hot starts.

Working the Haynes manual, and one of the first items for a hard hot start is a clean air filter. That'll go in tomorrow. Second possibility is partially blocked fuel delivery, either due to clogged fuel tank vent lines, or a fouled fuel filter. Since it only happens when warm, I suspect it's not the fuel filter (which I would expect would cause trouble hot or cold).

I checked the Haynes fuel section and the drawing of the gas tank doesn't include info on the vent lines, let alone how to check them. Any suggestions on that? Other possibilities are high float levels in the carb, and defective pickup coil in the distributor. I'm already going to be checking the carb during a tune-up in the very near future, and I'm holding off with the distributor until I've eliminated the other possibilities. Any other things to check for hard hot starts?

Also, some additional info: the PO put in a Webber carb with electric choke, did a de-smog with a kit (not sure which one), and did most of his tuning by ear but I'm not sure how often. A general tune-up is definitely on the list to be done as soon as our work schedules allow, and we hope that will clean up a lot of issues. Timing is already a suspect in a few other issues, and might play a role here too. I'll be learning how to use a timing gun soon so that we can determine where that's currently set and modify as needed. Any other ideas for what to check for the hot start and/or dieseling? Thanks all......
Kathryn and Kaylee

 

[WSOPgold2012]

pics or dsnt exist

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

Refer to @CruiserTrash fir my description of how to prime the carb prior to start.
Per dieseling… could be timing. If it is dieseling after a drive sometimes pulling in and letting it sit idling can calm down the rush of fuel from the carb into the manifolds. Idk my ex told me that, not 100% sure he was right but it did help twice. After that I got the timing adjusted and now it doesn’t at all.
That’s all I can say… others will definitely say more.
GL,
Felicity

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

When your going to do timing get under the truck first and mark your bb w/ a dot of white out and the TDC w/ a white line. That way they’ll glow from the strobe.
If you need help moving the flywheel I can direct you an easy way through that too if needed.

 

[kirvesmies]

@TLC4K2 , welcome into this endless rabbit hole of insanity (official mud welcome). some where in here toyota service manuals are available. just don't ask me to point you towards them as my computer juju sucks. mud is an awesome source for the info you need, just gotta dig
n oh yeah, don't waste your time looking for alice, she left with me

 

[kirvesmies]

speaking of tsm's, @NeverGiveUpYota 's got them available. also, for a healthy shot of encouragement, read her "work in progress aka: badass" thread

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

speaking of tsm's, @NeverGiveUpYota 's got them available. also, for a healthy shot of encouragement, read her "work in progress aka: badass" thread

No don’t… you’ll drop dead before you finish.

 

[TLC4K2]

Thanks all. As we investigate various issues, timing keeps coming up as a suspect so we're going to check that first. The PO also has the idle set a tad higher than I expected, so we might fiddle with that as well. @WSOPgold2012, what kinds of pics would be useful? I'd be all sorts of happy to show pics of the engine compartment. If you're looking for something specific, let me know.
Kathryn and Kaylee

 

[WSOPgold2012]

Thanks all. As we investigate various issues, timing keeps coming up as a suspect so we're going to check that first. The PO also has the idle set a tad higher than I expected, so we might fiddle with that as well. @WSOPgold2012, what kinds of pics would be useful? I'd be all sorts of happy to show pics of the engine compartment. If you're looking for something specific, let me know.
Kathryn and Kaylee

any/all pics ...thats why we here to look at purdy 60s/62s

 

[kirvesmies]

No don’t… you’ll drop dead before you finish.

holy $h!t, am i immortal then? i've read it twice!!

 

[OSS]

If the manifold/carburetor fan isn’t working, hot starts will always be hard.
You didn’t mention if it was or not.
Also start the engine differently when it’s hot: push the gas pedal to the floor once and hold it to the floor then crank the starter until it fires up. Don’t pump the gas pedal and don’t use the choke (if you’ve got that option).

If the fan doesn’t fix the issue, then the problem likely lies with the Weber carburetor. The original Toyota carburetor doesn’t have trouble starting when the engine is super hot.

 

[kirvesmies]

yeah, we need pics for proof that you've got a 60/62

 

[TLC4K2]

Ask, and ye shall receive.....

This is Kaylee, being photobombed by our llama George. Did I mention we live on a farm?

And this is her engine....

Her Weber carburetor....

And I forgot to mention that she also has a Man-a-Fre distributor....

But as your special treat tonight, I found a fabulous redneck fix - the windshield washer fluid reservoir lost its cap at some point in the past, and the PO patched it. With a Ziploc held in place by a ziptie. Zippidee-doo-dah! Are there any awards for redneck fix discoveries? Just ordered a replacement cap from Ebay after looking awhile. Yikes. Oh, and of course the reservoir was empty. I wonder how long the PO put up with that. We only live in a temperate rainforest climate up here with 50+ inches of rain/year, geez.

So after you folks get over all your laughter, let me know if you see any huge red flags. As always, thanks all....
Kathryn and Kaylee

 

[WSOPgold2012]

your roof rack is bitchin....

 

[CruiserTrash]

@TLC4K2 Welcome to this ship of fools Kathryn.

Here’s my “so you got a new truck?” checklist. For about $150 and a Saturday’s work you can solve a LOT of problems on an unknown/new-to-you vehicle this way. Off the top of my head:
1. Oil & filter change
2. New air filter
3. New fuel filter
4. New spark plugs
5. All new vac & PCV hoses (including to brake booster, charcoal canister, etc).
6. Set timing (as @NeverGiveUpYota said, remove the flywheel inspection cover and use a white paint marker or whatever to mark the round “BB” - that’s your 7* before top dead center timing target and it will make it MUCH easier to see. The “line” is TDC aka zero degrees of timing.)
7. Check vacuum at idle (that little double/triple nipple fitting on the top of the intake manifold with the looped piece of hose)
8. Check compression when you change the plugs. Compression testers are cheap, or rent one for free from the auto parts store.
9. Do a visual check for vacuum and other air ports/nipples that are wide open.
10. Remover the air cleaner and valve cover and set the valve clearances. Make sure the motor is all the way warmed up before you start.

This will take a lot of the basic questions out and give you some baseline numbers to work from. All of this stuff can be found by searching here on Mud.

Also, throw out the Haynes manual and get the following Factory Service Manuals (FSMs): Emissions and 2F Engine. There’s an FSM for Body & Chassis that will come in handy down the road for other stuff (like electrical gremlins) but it’s not a top priority. Some people have download links for these in their signature lines, or PM me and I can email them.

 

[TLC4K2]

Thanks for the compliment on the roof rack @WSOPgold2012 and thanks for the checklist @CruiserTrash! The Haynes is better than the Chilton was for the Ford Ranger, which was darn near worthless. But yea I've been eyeballing those TSMs. Balked at the price tag on ebay but I have no doubt it would be money well spent. Probably start saving me headaches from the moment I get them.

Ok, dumb question (the first of many): I've rebuilt a fair number of carbs for multiple manufacturers, but I've never heard of a carb fan before. Is that a Toyota thing?

Second maybe-not-so-dumb question. I noticed that a lot of the engine bay pix I've seen of FJ60's have a rectangular air filter, but mine has the factory oval filter like pictured in the manual. Any pro's or con's to either one? I'm assuming it was cheaper to just get an adapter between the Weber and the stock filter, but now I'm wondering whether there's an advantage to the rectangular one instead. Just curious.
Kathryn and Kaylee, who's blushing because someone actually likes her roof rack

 

[CruiserTrash]

Thanks for the compliment on the roof rack @WSOPgold2012 and thanks for the checklist @CruiserTrash! The Haynes is better than the Chilton was for the Ford Ranger, which was darn near worthless. But yea I've been eyeballing those TSMs. Balked at the price tag on ebay but I have no doubt it would be money well spent. Probably start saving me headaches from the moment I get them.

Ok, dumb question (the first of many): I've rebuilt a fair number of carbs for multiple manufacturers, but I've never heard of a carb fan before. Is that a Toyota thing?

Second maybe-not-so-dumb question. I noticed that a lot of the engine bay pix I've seen of FJ60's have a rectangular air filter, but mine has the factory oval filter like pictured in the manual. Any pro's or con's to either one? I'm assuming it was cheaper to just get an adapter between the Weber and the stock filter, but now I'm wondering whether there's an advantage to the rectangular one instead. Just curious.
Kathryn and Kaylee, who's blushing because someone actually likes her roof rack

Inside the engine bay, along the driver’s side, there is a large black device about the size of the brake booster. It’s inboard from the decorative vent on the exterior. That’s a carb cooling fan and helps cool the carb (and fuel) down when you turn the truck off to prevent vapor lock. It makes it easier to hot start the truck. When you shut the truck off you’ll hear it running for about 20 minutes. I have a spare one for not much $ if yours is missing or inoperable. Go put the key in the ignition, start the truck, shut it down, and listen for the carb cooling fan. If you don’t hear it check to make sure it’s there. Could just be the harness connector that provides power is unplugged or something.

Repeating in case you missed it: PDF copies of the FSMs are floating around here on Mud. If you PM me I can send them all via email/Google Drive as well. Hard copies are nice, but digital copies are still far better than Haynes.

The aftermarket carbs ditch the large, oval air cleaner housing Toyota used. If you switch back to an OEM Aisin or City Racer’s Fuji clone you’ll probably need the original air cleaner too.

 

[Seth S]

On my truck I did everything mentioned above and in the end I did a full manifold rebuild with all new gaskets and match machined manifolds and then the truck ran as it should. Hopefully a proper tuneup gets you back to base line.

 

[TLC4K2]

Progress! The dieseling problem may have been fixed. Given that the engine had been de-smogged and thus had lots of little vacuum line plugs, I went around looking for a missing or leaky plug, and voila! Found one which was brittle and trying really hard to fall off. I just touched it and it came off. While driving I had noticed the occasional whistling sound, and the PO had mentioned something about knowing the engine had a vacuum leak he'd never been able to find. So I replaced that plug, and I've started/stopped the engine several times since then, no dieseling. Yay!

Also confirmed that yes I have a carb fan, and yes I have the wiring harness for it, and no it's not switching on as it should. Did a bunch of reading about that last night regarding the hard hot starts, and I suspect now that the lack of a functioning carb fan is the problem there. I haven't traced out the electrical line yet to know if it's still connected to the sensor; ran out of time today. But now I have a clear idea of what to look for and how to fix it.

Added ATF to the power steering fluid reservoir, and moved the wheel back and forth a few times. The groaning is still there but not nearly as bad as it used to be. I'll get the thing topped off to see if that takes care of the vibration and sound, THEN I'll go for the purge with new stuff and add the filter. Just didn't have time for anything very elaborate today.

Of course I found a few more issues. That's the golden rule of working on old rigs, right? Fix one problem and find 3 more in the process. Amongst other things, I discovered that my lights are somewhat messed up; I have headlights/tail/brake lights, and signals, but two of my running lights are out. And the front left turn signal is lit whenever the headlight is lit, regardless of whether the turn signal is on or not. So I have some electrical un-tangling to do there.

Oh, and I figured out the radio. Score. Found a local classic rock radio station coming in loud and clear, so that was fun. I even have some cassette tapes I can put in there to see if the cassette player still works. Might have to go for Def Leppard's Pyromania, or maybe the soundtrack to Heavy Metal, just to re-christen the old gal's sound system.

So all in all, I'll count today as a win. Nice to turn the truck off and have it actually turn off. Cross a few items off the to-do list, watch a few others, and add a few at the bottom. But it's been a good day.
Kathryn and Kaylee

 

[CruiserTrash]

Hell yeah, throw some 80s metal tapes in there and ROCK!